MA-Gun Laws (Fed & MA) and Inheritance

[namedpipes]

IANAL, but I'm going to be the odd man out, and disagree with Len and namedpipes.

Upon the death of an owner, a direct transfer from an unlicensed executor/trix is only permissable to an heir or legatee.

MGL 140-129C(n) states...

If that heir or legatee is unlicensed, they must obtain a license within 180 days, or dispose of the firearm(s). If the executor/trix is also an heir or legatee, they cannot transfer any firearms to a third party unless/until they are properly licensed.

Scrivener's posts in this thread lead me to believe that my understanding is correct...

That said, I'm sure many people have merely filed a "registration", and doubt that CHSB even noticed or cared, or would prosecute, but I still believe that a direct transfer from an unlicensed executor, executrix, heir or legatee to a third party is illegal. YMMV.

I just whiled away a while paraphrasing that section into plain English. Actually, there are a couple of interesting things that might even be true.

The first part of the section 129C tells us that we can't possess a gun or transfer a gun unless we are licensed, and that we have to notify CHSB (the FA-10) if we do transfer one. Then it lists a bunch of reasons you wouldn't have to comply.

The way I read this, the list of exemptions applys to all the provisions of the section, the most interesting of which (to me) is the FA-10.

Now, the inheritance clause says the section DOES apply, but gives you some time to get straight with the law.

Most of the others though, give situations where you need not comply with the provisions (thinking of the FA10 here).

J. Basically says if you are a brand new resident you don't have to file FA-10 forms and this has been been pretty widely accepted here to mean if you move to MA don't bother filing the forms. (Do get your license in order, though).

But it goes on to say, MA residents that have been away for more than six months. Now, it is probably a small number of people that would benefit, other than possibly those away in the military, or perhaps college students, etc., but it seems to me if you go away for a while without giving up MA residency, you can go back home with all the long arms you purchased while out of state, without "registering" them when you do go home. (Or if you have a C&R, even C&R qualified handguns).

Could this possibly be true?

"any resident of the commonwealth returning after having been absent from the commonwealth for not less than 180 consecutive days"


I know this is a little diversion from the question at hand, but I'd like to know if this is really so or if something, some other clause or law prevents it.


http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129C

Heavily paraphrased for clarity:

Section 129C.

Thou shalt not have a gun unless you have a license for it.

Thou shalt not provide a gun to someone that doesn't have a license.

If thou selleth a gun, report it to the high priesthood.

None of this applies to you if:

A. It's just a signalling device you have to have for your boat or some kind of nailing gun.

B. You are working for a gun store while you are handling the gun.

C. If you are giving you gun to the cops and you already notified them in writing when and where you were going to do so.

D. You are a UPS driver and the stuff is in packages you are delivering.

E. You are a customer at a gun store or shooting gallery AND the gun is chained down.

F. You are from out of state and are hunting with long arms (and have a valid hunting license).

G. You are from out of state and you are at a regular firing range with long arms.

H. You are from out of state and travelling in or through MA, with long arms that are unloaded and cased.

I. You are from out of state and have a long arm at some gun show or shooting match sponsored by a club.

J. You are a new resident or a MA resident that has been away from home more than six months or were just released from active duty.


K. You are less that 15 years old using a long arm for hunting or target, but someone with a license is with you.

L. You are using the long arm while acting in a movie, play, etc AND a license holder is supervising you.

M. You are just examining it or learning about it AND a license holder is around (or using it is otherwise legal there).

N. You DO have to obey this section if are the heir or legatee of the owner of the firearm, but you get six months to get your papers in order.

O. You work for the military, either US or State (or you're a cop) AND you are on duty.

P. You have or you are carrying black powder long arms, powder and shot. If you're from out of state, you would have to be legal at home, to do this here.

Q. There is no clause (q)

R. "You" are a veteran's organization or a tax exempt non-profit or a member of one of these, in a parade or ceremony.

S. You are a historical society, museum, etc open to the public.

T. You are holding onto the gun as collateral. (but only if you are or work for a bank)

U. You are from out of state and at least 18, buying a long arm from an FFL AND are legal to possess the long arm at home AND home's state has laws at least as strict as ours, as far as having long arms goes. The colonel or the state police has to publish an annual list of those states.

If you are buying a long arm by way of "O" or "P", you have to prove to the seller who you are.

No matter what I just said, you can't sell a long arm to anyone under 18 or a handgun to anyone under 21 unless they show you a valid FID or LTC OR they show such a license and they are one of the exempt.

Also no matter what, you can't sell a hi cap long arm or magazine to anyone not having an LTC Class A or Class B or hi cap handguns or magazines to someone without an LTC Class A.

Having an FID doesn't give you a right to carry a handgun and having an FID doesn't give you a right to possess a hi cap long arm or magazine.

If you are away from home (or even at home and they have a search warrant) if a cop asks you your license you better have it handy, or else.

 

[Kevlar]

But it goes on to say, MA residents that have been away for more than six months. Now, it is probably a small number of people that would benefit, other than possibly those away in the military, or perhaps college students, etc., but it seems to me if you go away for a while without giving up MA residency, you can go back home with all the long arms you purchased while out of state, without "registering" them when you do go home. (Or if you have a C&R, even C&R qualified handguns).

Could this possibly be true?

Yes, if one is a current resident returning after being absent a minimum of 180 consecutive days OR a current resident returning after release from active service, and the firearms are introduced into the state contemporaneously with the resident's return, no FA-10 is required. It also applies to non-C&R handguns acquired out of state, as active duty military can have two states of residence, and purchase handguns in either state.

 

[dwarven1]

I do NOT believe that every gun and person has to be specifically named in a will in order for an executor/executrix to distribute it "according to the wishes of the deceased". Some may disagree, but again, nothing on the FA-10 form instructions or the MGL/CMR requires that the executor/executrix supply detailed info on what they are doing. Whether or not the deceased even had a license is irrelevant once they are deceased. Only the fact that the new owner is licensed is relevant. Nobody looks up the past history of a gun unless investigating a murder, so don't worry about it.

The late Darius Arbabi said that you could set up a clause in your will stating something to the effect of "my firearms will be disposed of according to the attached sheet" and attach a list of who you want your guns to go to - this lets your list of guns NOT be public knowledge (along with who is getting them) and you don't have to keep getting a new will notarized every time you buy a new gun.

 

[namedpipes]

The late Darius Arbabi said that you could set up a clause in your will stating something to the effect of "my firearms will be disposed of according to the attached sheet" and attach a list of who you want your guns to go to - this lets your list of guns NOT be public knowledge (along with who is getting them) and you don't have to keep getting a new will notarized every time you buy a new gun.

They don't need to be enumerated. You can say "all of my firearms" or "all handguns", "all shotguns"...

You can leave the separate paper and reference it as you said.

I believe you can also rely on your executor to simply obey your wishes as you have verbally expressed them. That takes trust.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I believe you can also rely on your executor to simply obey your wishes as you have verbally expressed them. That takes trust.

I believe this to also be accurate and oftentimes people express what they want done with specifics verbally to their heirs w/o modifying a Will. It's supposed to be just as legal as writing it down, assuming nobody contests the Will.

I know that others disagree (Scriv) and insist that there always be a paper trail a mile long, but that is NOT how most things work in real life. Although no guns were involved, my Wife and I have had to deal with inheriting and distributing assets upon the loss of her Mother, both my Parents and my Sister (and only my Sister left no Will, but NOT everything was spelled out in the Wills either).

 

[Da_lucche]

I could not find the answer to my question so I apologize in advance if I missed it.

My dad passed away in June of 2010. My mom inherited his firearms. Early this year (2011), she did transfer a few of his rifles via fa10 with my dad's fid # and her sig.

Now its 17 months after my dads passing and he still has a few guns left. Would it still be legal for my mom to personally transfer them via fa10 without involving an FFL?

*also, I know she only has one transfer left for 2011.

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[szaino]

Let's assume you, mom, and dad are all Mass residents. If not the law gets even muddier.

There is a big distinction between:
A) if your mom inherited them
or
b) if she is the executrix of the estate, and they were meant to go to some other beneficiary.

If she is the executrix, she can do a direct transfer to the beneficiary (you, if you are properly licensed). Mom needs no license because she is the executrix. And, there is no 4 per year limit involved.

If she legally inherited them, because either the will said so, or there was no will, then she needs to be licensed in order to possess them. And, any further transfers from her to anyone else need to be done the same as any other transfer. The fact that she inherited them no longer has any bearing on the situation.

It would appear if mom inherited them, then the transfers she did using your dad's fid (presumably because she had no license) were done incorrectly.

Here is the section from Ch 140 sec 129, which deals with exempt persons or uses.

(n) The transfer of a firearm, rifle or shotgun upon the death of an owner to his heir or legatee shall be subject to the provisions of this section, provided that said heir or legatee shall within one hundred and eighty days of such transfer, obtain a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms if not otherwise an exempt person who is qualified to receive such or apply to the licensing authority for such further limited period as may be necessary for the disposition of such firearm, rifle or shotgun;

 

[Da_lucche]

Let's assume you, mom, and dad are all Mass residents. If not the law gets even muddier.

There is a big distinction between:
A) if your mom inherited them
or
b) if she is the executrix of the estate, and they were meant to go to some other beneficiary.

If she is the executrix, she can do a direct transfer to the beneficiary (you, if you are properly licensed). Mom needs no license because she is the executrix. And, there is no 4 per year limit involved.

If she legally inherited them, because either the will said so, or there was no will, then she needs to be licensed in order to possess them. And, any further transfers from her to anyone else need to be done the same as any other transfer. The fact that she inherited them no longer has any bearing on the situation.

It would appear if mom inherited them, then the transfers she did using your dad's fid (presumably because she had no license) were done incorrectly.

Here is the section from Ch 140 sec 129, which deals with exempt persons or uses.

(n) The transfer of a firearm, rifle or shotgun upon the death of an owner to his heir or legatee shall be subject to the provisions of this section, provided that said heir or legatee shall within one hundred and eighty days of such transfer, obtain a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms if not otherwise an exempt person who is qualified to receive such or apply to the licensing authority for such further limited period as may be necessary for the disposition of such firearm, rifle or shotgun;

My dad did not disclose any details about his firearms within the will but my mom is the executrix of the estate.

We were told by Waltham PD that she could leave the rifles in the safe and they would be fine.

So if I am in a worst case scenario, where a couple rifles were transfer incorrectly, is there any info on how to rectify it?

 

[Kevlar]

My dad did not disclose any details about his firearms within the will but my mom is the executrix of the estate.

If the guns were not bequeathed to a specific person, her role as executrix is irrelevant. It sounds like she inherited them as part of the estate. As she is unlicensed, any transfer(s) must be effected by a FFL. Additionally, her current unlicensed possession is unlawful (see below).

We were told by Waltham PD that she could leave the rifles in the safe and they would be fine.

Somewhat true, but misleading. Unlicensed possession is legal during the 180 day grace period. Once the grace period (or any subsequent extension(s) granted by the licensing authority) expires, if one has not obtained the appropriate license, possession becomes illegal.

So if I am in a worst case scenario, where a couple rifles were transfer incorrectly, is there any info on how to rectify it?

The previous FTF transfers to you were likely unlawful, but attempting to rectify it at this point can only result in you and your mother incriminating yourselves. The CHSB doesn't research each FA-10 they receive, they merely scan them into the database. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Da_lucche]

Thank you for the prompt replies. Much appreciated. Since my mom has not been licensed and its past the 180 days, is there any way to legally to transfer the rest of his firearms? Would a transfer via FFL at my mother's house work (since I wouldnt wanna transport them)?

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[Kevlar]

...is there any way to legally to transfer the rest of his firearms?

Using a FFL is the legal way to transfer the remaining firearms.

Would a transfer via FFL at my mother's house work (since I wouldnt wanna transport them)?

Why? Providing you are appropriately licensed, and comply with the transportation requirements, it is perfectly legal for you to transport mom and the guns to a FFL to effect the transfer.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Only problem is that if there are any handguns that are not on the EOPS List, unless you can prove they were in MA on/before 10/21/1998 to the FFL's satisfaction they become "dead in the water" and the FFL can't transfer them to any MA resident.

 

[KMaurer]

If there's no explicit beneficiary specified in the will for the firearm, the executrix is free to decide to whom the should go, as long as nobody objects. The problem would seem to be that, even though she doesn't want them, she decided that they should go to her. If the waters hadn't been muddied by the previous (illegal) FA10 transfers, I'd recommend that she decide he wanted them to go to you, let you pick them up and file an FA10 for registration only.

Ken

 

[Da_lucche]

If there's no explicit beneficiary specified in the will for the firearm, the executrix is free to decide to whom the should go, as long as nobody objects. The problem would seem to be that, even though she doesn't want them, she decided that they should go to her. If the waters hadn't been muddied by the previous (illegal) FA10 transfers, I'd recommend that she decide he wanted them to go to you, let you pick them up and file an FA10 for registration only.

Ken

I believe the waters have already been muddied. It was misinfo on my part that caused this. There was no explicit beneficiary named. The guns, along with everything my dad owned went to my mom.

We used FA10 forms, with my dads FID # and my moms signature and mailed them to the CHSB. So even though the forms have been mailed to the CHSB filled out with valid licenses (my dad's uncle and myself) and correct new owner info and and presumed scanned in, I am realizing I think I went about the process the completely wrong way.

I'm just not gonna disturb the hornet's nest, so to speak. Thankfully, one was a muzzle loader, which is exempt. The two in question is a Franchi shotty and a Remington 742, both for hunting, so at least neither are for home defense or CCW.

The remaining firearms, 3 shotguns and 1 rifle, I will obviously have an FFL transfer those.

 

[Da_lucche]

I wasn't too sure if that was legal since the firearms are not registered to me and they are technically the property of an unlicensed individual (my mom).

 

[namedpipes]

Find an FFL and transfer the remaining long arms through them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Find an FFL and transfer the remaining long arms through them.

This^^^^^^^^

And don't fret over the past, the likelihood that it will cause problems (once the above is done) is about the same odds as winning the lottery . . . without having to buy a lottery ticket to do so!

 

[jm121189]

I read through most of this thread and didn't find the answer I am looking for, if it is already here please point me to the post #. I recently got my class A LTC(bought a s&w m&p 40 but thats a different story) my dad has two rifles sitting up in the attic that were from my grandfather. They have been sitting there for years and he wants to transfer them to me so I can use them. My father has no LTC or FID card and the guns were not registered to my father after the death of my grandfather. Since they have been sitting there for so long (I assume illegally?) what do I have to do to get them in my name legally? FA-10 form? Dealer transfer?

 

[Kevlar]

As your father is unlicensed, a FTF transfer via FA-10 would be illegal.

Transport him and the guns to a FFL, who will legally effect the transfer.

 

[JimR]

I had my mother do the same a few years ago. She had to get her FFL in order to do the transfer. The FFL transfer would be legal if the FFL himself wrote "HIS" name as the seller on the FA-10. He then could log the guns into his books as being received from your father. The FA-10 does have a spot for the licensee number of the seller. So if your father has no license it has to be left blank, not good.

 

[jm121189]

Thanks for the replies, I called four seasons and they said it could be done online. I found the website but the only problem is both the rifles have no serial numbers. I assume they were made before 1968 since they were acquired from my grandfather. What happens when there are no serial numbers?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks for the replies, I called four seasons and they said it could be done online. I found the website but the only problem is both the rifles have no serial numbers. I assume they were made before 1968 since they were acquired from my grandfather. What happens when there are no serial numbers?

What you were told is WRONG! It would be an ILLEGAL transaction. Period, end of discussion.

ONLY legal ways would be for your Father to get licensed (1) or both you and he go to FFL with guns and do transaction there (2).

If you read this thread and the 100 others with the same question/situation that you have, you will see the same (correct) answer given over and over again by those of us who actually know the gun laws.

Asking a gun shop person or LEO for MA gun law advice is a ticket to major legal problems (some of which may give you years to contemplate your decisions in Walpole, all expense paid trip)!

 

[jm121189]

double post sorry

 

[Evans]

Out of state inheritance

My dad passed away last December. He was a NJ resident and licensed gun owner. As I recall, the will states all personal property to go to my mom. Unfortunately she is not mentally competent so my brother and I are co-executors of the will.

My brother has no interest in dad's guns (2 shotguns, 2 .22s, 1 rifle, 3 semi-automatic pistols, nothing exceptional from a legal standpoint) so they will all go to me.

How do I register them legally in MA? Can I just use an FA-10? Although I am receiving them through inheritance the inheritance part of the FA-10 requires the deceased's MA LTC number. My dad licensed in NJ and does not have a MA LTC. Can I use the ordinary Registration section since I am acquiring them out of state and there in no record of them in MA? Or do I need to go through a FFL?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Sorry for your loss.

I can only assume that you didn't read this thread.

Your answer is that you do NOT involve ANY FFLs anywhere, you bring them back to MA (observe FOPA judiciously) or the Executor can ship them directly to you via UPS/FedEx (ground OK for long guns, 2nd Day Air OK for handguns).

You file FA-10s as REGISTRATION for each gun . . . you ONLY fill out gun description and YOUR LTC/Personal Info and Mail them in. Do NOT use the online forms, go to your local PD to get them or DL/fill out from here:
www.northeastshooters.com/FA10.pdf

 

[namedpipes]

Just to highlight the obvious, do not fill out the "Seller Information" section at all.

 

[Evans]

I suppose I should have started with "I read the whole thread and didn't see a situation like this so I'll ask"

Thanks for your help.

 

[kiehtan]

I have a complex situation and could use some advice. My father (who lived in MA) passed away three years ago. His wife (my step mother) inherited all his legal possessions, incuding five guns. She decided to give three of his firearms to my brother and I, two pistols and a pump action shotgun. My brother lives in RI and I live in MA. I have an unrestricted class A, my father had an unrestricted class A. and my stepmother had no LTC or FID. THe guns were given to my brother but no forms were ever filled out. There is not registration in RI, so that shouldn't be a problem for him. It was decided that I will get the shotgun, my brother will get one of the pistols, and his son will get the second pistol. Currentlt, all three guns are in RI, since I was not sure about MA law and didn't want to get in trouble. How do I go about legally gaining possession of the shotgun? Can I simply fill out an FA-10 and check off registration without seller information? Can I go to an FFL and transfer it to myself that way? My stepmother has moved to NY and severed all contact with my brother and I days after my father's death, so I will get no cooperation from her.



Part II: My wife's grandfather passed away several months ago. He lived in Maine. He has a bolt action rifle, a pump shotgun, and a revolver that his widow (who still lives in Maine) has decided are to go to me. How do I acquire possession of these legally? Can I simply take them home and fill out FA-10 forms? Do I have to bring them to an FFL? Does my grandmotherin-law have to do anything.

Thanks for your help.


Jim

 

[Kevlar]

Welcome to NES!

The first situation is fairly straightforward. It must be transferred by a FFL, which can occur in one of three ways:

1. You drive to RI, and you and your brother go to a RI FFL (IIRC, there's a 7 day waiting period); or
2. Your brother drives to MA (with the shotgun appropriately secured for transport), and you and he go to a MA FFL; or
3. Your brother ships it to a MA FFL (prior to which, you should ensure the MA FFL will receive a shipment from a non-FFL. It is legal to do so, but some FFLs won't as a matter of policy)

The second situation is slightly more complicated. The same three options above apply to the rifle and shotgun (though I don't believe ME has a waiting period). However, the handgun can only be transferred by a MA FFL. The problem being that if it is not MA compliant, the FFL will be unable to effect the transfer.

 

[kiehtan]

Thanks Kevlar,

It's an old Colt Diamondback. If I understand the laws correctly, it is exempt from the AG regs because it is so old. Not sure about the roster though. I didn't see any Colt's on the roster,