MA-Gun Laws (Fed & MA) and Inheritance

[Scrivener]

Does Massachusetts state law require that the executor of an estate obtain an LTC in order to take possession of firearms in an estate in order to transfer them to the beneficiaries of the estate? So she takes possession of it here as the executrix and ships it to the beneficiary who resides in Florida. Does the fact that she happens to be the beneficiary happens to be herself require something that wouldn't be required if the beneficiary were another Florida resident? I don't see anything in the federal law would do so.

Start with learning what "beneficiary" means.

From the OP:

he never included this desire in his will thinking that as executrix my wife could do this in her capacity.

...
Despite his desire for me to get his revolver, I am not named in the will other than to be named as executor, if my wife predeceased me.

 

[Mike S]

Interesting twist on the inheritance subject.

A women called me the other day, she had been willed 3 long guns and 2 handguns, all of which she can legally possess in MA. (she is a resident of MA)

The guns are located in CA.

What is her best option for getting the guns home to MA?

Can she fly to CA, take possession, fly home with them then fill out the FA 10s here? It's an interesting question as she would be transporting them in CA as well as across state lines, which is typically forbidden.

Any thoughts?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mike, I'd be REAL HESITANT to give any advice on this one.

If the guns were in America, the answer is simple, but since they are in a foreign country (Mexifornia) one must know what these foreign laws are.

My suggestion would be to tell her to check with the CA equivalent of GOAL for an answer on what CA requires for export. CA requires all transfers (even C&R handguns) to go thru an 01 FFL and DROS, even FFLs in America can't ship to a CA FFL w/o FL DOJ approval of the gun/shipment each time.

Also might matter if someone in CA is the executor/trix. Under US Law that person can legally ship the guns direct to the MA resident who inherited them, assuming CA allows one to do such actions.

 

[Mike S]

Mike, I'd be REAL HESITANT to give any advice on this one.

If the guns were in America, the answer is simple, but since they are in a foreign country (Mexifornia) one must know what these foreign laws are.

My suggestion would be to tell her to check with the CA equivalent of GOAL for an answer on what CA requires for export. CA requires all transfers (even C&R handguns) to go thru an 01 FFL and DROS, even FFLs in America can't ship to a CA FFL w/o FL DOJ approval of the gun/shipment each time.

Also might matter if someone in CA is the executor/trix. Under US Law that person can legally ship the guns direct to the MA resident who inherited them, assuming CA allows one to do such actions.

I gave her Scriv's #

I was asking for future reference and because it is an interesting question.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I gave her Scriv's #

I was asking for future reference and because it is an interesting question.

What did you have against the poor lady?

Truthfully I wouldn't expect any MA attorney to know what kind of BS is required out of Mexifornia.

 

[dwarven1]

Truthfully I wouldn't expect any MA attorney to know what kind of BS is required out of Mexifornia.

But if anyone could find out, I'd think that Scriv (or jcohen or Cross-X) could. Any old lawyer off the street? Wouldn't want to rely on it.

 

[Executive]

New related question. Say a the widow of a licensed firearm owner discovers a rifle in her home many years after her husband's death. The widow is NOT a holder of a MA license. Is it permissible to transfer this rifle via FA-10 ten years or more after the owner's death?

Chris

 

[George D]

see post 55

 

[Scrivener]

see post 55

Well, there you go again.

Expecting people to actually read the stickies before posting redundant questions.

 

[Executive]

Well, there you go again.

Expecting people to actually read the stickies before posting redundant questions.

If you bothered to read the question completely, you would know that it is NOT redundant. My question asks if there is a time limit on the transfer after the owner has passed. There is a reference to a 180 day period but it is vague. Perhaps you could try to be helpful rather than sarcastic. It would have required less effort on your part to offer some pertinent information. My apologies for any inconvenience I have caused.

Chris

 

[Scrivener]

Wrong. Again.

I did read the question completely:

"Say a the widow of a licensed firearm owner discovers a rifle in her home many years after her husband's death."

Translation: LONG after the estate, assuming she even bothered to probate it, was closed. With its closure went her authority as an executrix - assuming she was to begin with.

Which makes it yet ANOTHER run-of-the-mill unlicensed transfer, as has been discussed here MANY times.

 

[Reptile]

• If the surviving spouse/Executor/Executrix turns ANY handguns over to a MA FFL, MGLs apply (if not on EOPS List AND not AG-compliant, they can NOT be resold to anyone in MA unless proof of “in-state” status on 10/21/98 can be provided).[/INDENT]

If assault weapons are inherited, can they be transported and possessed in Mass?

I would say no because even though non-compliant guns are ok, assault weapons are specifically banned in Mass.

I know you can not move to Mass with assault weapons, but what if inheritance is part of the equation?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Reptile, you are CORRECT. ALL guns must comply with AWB (and this includes newer hi-cap mags too).

 

[GSG]

MGL Ch. 140 S. 129C(n)

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129c.htm

Something to keep in mind, if the heir or legatee doesn't strictly follow the 180 day rule they're breaking the law, and if convicted for that particular violation they will be prohibited for life from obtaining a Mass. LTC. I laid it out in the post that I'm linking to below.

New residents/heirs not getting licensed soon enough

(In this section I'm referring to MGL 269-10(h)(1) which I quoted in the above section on pepper spray)

AIf a new resident moves to MA, they are only exempt from licensing for 60 days under MGL 140-129C(j), and if a gun owner dies, their heir or legatee is only exempt from licensing for 180 days under MGL 140-129C(n). Even if the licensing authority takes their sweet time issuing an LTC/FID, this law still applies.

 

[Stubborn Yankee]

My situation is a bit different than this since I live in Indiana and my parents live in MA. Since Indiana is much more firearm friendly than MA, does this avoid most of these restrictions, as well as the FA-10 form? I definitely need to talk to Dad about making sure his will is up to date in this matter, especially considering that Mom is in a nursing home, also in MA.

 

[dwarven1]

The FA-10 is only for MA subjects to report sales/purchases/"acquisitions"/loss of a firearm.

 

[namedpipes]

A husband and wife both licensed, bought a firearm in early ninety's . Filed a blue card like good doobies. they considered it equally owned. the husband dies . there is no will. does the wife need to do anything specific to keep the firearm or can she simply continue to own and use it as she always has? she is and will remain properly licensed.

 

[dwarven1]

I suppose it depends on which name is on the blue card.

 

[KMaurer]

I suppose it depends on which name is on the blue card.

Neither name is on the blue card, for the simple reason that the blue cards no longer exist. After a failed effort to get them cleaned up and into some form that could be entered into a database, they gave up and scrapped them all. So the correct answer is that the gun was legally owned by whoever best suits your purposes.

Ken

Ken

 

[WSCJonathan]

Hello,

My Godfather (Uncle) passed in early April. Today my Godmother (Aunt) told me he had an air rifle and a shotgun and asked me if I wanted them. She is the executor of this estate, but she told me his "FID Card" as she put it, had expired. I have no idea when it was last renewed. She obviously doesn't have a LTC.

Does it have to go through a FFL because his license was expired, or I can use a FA10 because she is the executor and it is in the 180 day window?

Thanks!

 

[namedpipes]

The air rifle is just personal property and she can dispose of it as she likes. No FA-10. She can just give it to you.

I believe she can distribute the shotgun directly to you (but hopefully someone else with better memory cells can confirm) and yes you would have to file an FA-10 for that. Check off registration and put the executrix's name and address in the seller area, leave the license number blank.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The air rifle is just personal property and she can dispose of it as she likes. No FA-10. She can just give it to you.

I believe she can distribute the shotgun directly to you (but hopefully someone else with better memory cells can confirm) and yes you would have to file an FA-10 for that. Check off registration and put the executrix's name and address in the seller area, leave the license number blank.

Although I agree with what you are trying to say . . . the areas that I highlighted contradict themselves.

You do NOT put seller info on an FA-10 form that is marked REGISTRATION (and IIRC the FA-10 instructions, found here in the PDF file posted by Scouter-Rick previously on NES tell you that)! Period. And this is the way that I would handle the situation.

 

[namedpipes]

Although I agree with what you are trying to say . . . the areas that I highlighted contradict themselves.

You do NOT put seller info on an FA-10 form that is marked REGISTRATION (and IIRC the FA-10 instructions, found here in the PDF file posted by Scouter-Rick previously on NES tell you that)! Period. And this is the way that I would handle the situation.

I based that on comments from Scrivener.

Filing the FA-10s all together, with the transferor identified as the executor/trix of the estate, together with the name and probate court docket number of the estate, has always sufficed for me. I have never even had the transfers questioned, still less challenged.

IF the deceased was a MA resident, the name of the executor/trix can be used as the "seller;" else just file as a registration (recipient info only).

Provide the name of the estate, the executor/trix and the docket number in your cover letter to the CHSB.

It does appear it is not necessary to enter the executrix's name/address as the seller, but it doesn't seem to be wrong to do so, either?

 

[Len-2A Training]

And although IANAL, I disagreed with Scriv back then on it. NOTHING in MGL or CMRs require submitting wills/court papers/etc. and TTBOMK they ONLY scan into the database the FA-10s themselves so all that extra paper probably is tossed by CJIS.

I don't believe in giving gov't any MORE info than is REQUIRED BY LAW. Thus, Scriv and I disagree and nobody can point me to anything that says I'm wrong (not bragging, would just welcome some proof if I am). Supplying more info than required can lead to more questions that nobody is required to answer, why chance it?

 

[namedpipes]

I'm not disagreeing and we certainly agree on not giving more information than is required. I was answering based on my recollection of statements from someone I know to be very knowledgeable on the subject.

Question: Can an executor/rix distribute a firearm to someone in the absence of a specific bequest, without using an FFL?

If the answer is yes, then Johnathon can simply file one FA-10 as a simple registration without an FFL or any other paperwork.

I think.

 

[WSCJonathan]

I knew I didn't have to register the air rifle, I could have left that part out I suppose.

So, because she is the executor and it is still in the 180 day grace period I can simply register the shotgun myself with a FA10. You two seem to be in agreement on that part and it was what I told her yesterday and assumed myself.

My only question on what to do was over the lack of his current LTC. If I simply fill out the form and mark registration sans any of my aunt's info or my uncle's former LTC/FID (depending on the time since it expired) and there is an issue will I ever be notified about the error when the gun comes back registered to my uncle?

Thanks for the help so far LenS and Namedpipes!

 

[namedpipes]

So, because she is the executor and it is still in the 180 day grace period I can simply register the shotgun myself with a FA10. You two seem to be in agreement on that part and it was what I told her yesterday and assumed myself.

That's the piece I'm not sure of. CAN the executrix distribute it to you if you are not NAMED in the will to receive the firearms. I think so, but I'm not sure.

My only question on what to do was over the lack of his current LTC. If I simply fill out the form and mark registration sans any of my aunt's info or my uncle's former LTC/FID (depending on the time since it expired) and there is an issue will I ever be notified about the error when the gun comes back registered to my uncle?

Doesn't matter if his LTC was current. If YOU have a current license you're fine. Yes, leave the seller area blank. Check the [] Registration box.

If you ever hear back from CHSB regarding your submission I'll eat my hat.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That's the piece I'm not sure of. CAN the executrix distribute it to you if you are not NAMED in the will to receive the firearms. I think so, but I'm not sure.

Doesn't matter if his LTC was current. If YOU have a current license you're fine. Yes, leave the seller area blank. Check the [] Registration box.

If you ever hear back from CHSB regarding your submission I'll eat my hat.

I do NOT believe that every gun and person has to be specifically named in a will in order for an executor/executrix to distribute it "according to the wishes of the deceased". Some may disagree, but again, nothing on the FA-10 form instructions or the MGL/CMR requires that the executor/executrix supply detailed info on what they are doing. Whether or not the deceased even had a license is irrelevant once they are deceased. Only the fact that the new owner is licensed is relevant. Nobody looks up the past history of a gun unless investigating a murder, so don't worry about it.

 

[WSCJonathan]

Awesome, glad I don't have to go through a FFL. Thanks for your advice guys, I really appreciate it and can't wait to try out skeet shooting!

 

[Kevlar]

Hello,

My Godfather (Uncle) passed in early April. Today my Godmother (Aunt) told me he had an air rifle and a shotgun and asked me if I wanted them. She is the executor of this estate, but she told me his "FID Card" as she put it, had expired. I have no idea when it was last renewed. She obviously doesn't have a LTC.

Does it have to go through a FFL because his license was expired, or I can use a FA10 because she is the executor and it is in the 180 day window?

Thanks!

IANAL, but I'm going to be the odd man out, and disagree with Len and namedpipes.

Upon the death of an owner, a direct transfer from an unlicensed executor/trix is only permissable to an heir or legatee.

MGL 140-129C(n) states...

(n) The transfer of a firearm, rifle or shotgun upon the death of an owner to his heir or legatee shall be subject to the provisions of this section, provided that said heir or legatee shall within one hundred and eighty days of such transfer, obtain a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms if not otherwise an exempt person who is qualified to receive such or apply to the licensing authority for such further limited period as may be necessary for the disposition of such firearm, rifle or shotgun;

If that heir or legatee is unlicensed, they must obtain a license within 180 days, or dispose of the firearm(s). If the executor/trix is also an heir or legatee, they cannot transfer any firearms to a third party unless/until they are properly licensed.

Scrivener's posts in this thread lead me to believe that my understanding is correct...

...The executor/trix of an estate can transfer guns from the estate per the terms of the will directly to the named beneficiary, who owns the guns automatically as a matter of law. Even the BATFE recognizes this and allows interstate transfers w/o an FFL. This presupposes the will has been submitted and the executor/trix approved by the court.

The beneficiaries receiving such firearm bequests must be duly licensed, of course; either at the time of the bequest or within 180 days of receiving the bequest...

...I purchased from an executrix months ago and sent the FA-10 in to the CHSB...

Obviously NOT an inheritance.

Did the executrix have the appropriate license?

That said, I doubt that the CHSB would even notice or care, or would prosecute, but I still believe that a direct transfer from an unlicensed executor/trix to anyone other than an heir or legatee is illegal. YMMV.