MA AR Build?

[CrackPot]

Its very easy to pin existing telescoping stocks like BCM or Magpul to the length you want and in a way that with simple tools you can change the length later on.

Pin/Weld of a non flash hider is easy and reversable with a milling machine. If you go with a 14.5" barrel, you need to pin/weld anyway to avoid being a SBR.

Pistol grips are good and the one feature most go with.

Grenade launcher meh.

Bayonet lug meh. who brings a gun to a knife fight.


We do all needed compliance work in house. Ive seen these grip/stock combos but they seem unpleasant...

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Only?? That’s an awful lot of hunting to be had. Also, tons of MA hunters go out of state to hunt other game with a rifle.

Hence my question.

If he is building 223/556 FOR MASSACHUSETTS it doesn’t meet the minimum for hunting black bear and it might be a little much for squirrels if he plans on eating them.

 

[71montess]

Hence my question.

If he is building 223/556 FOR MASSACHUSETTS it doesn’t meet the minimum for hunting black bear and it might be a little much for squirrels if he plans on eating them.

Dogs, it is then.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Dogs, it is then.

Pretty much

 

[LakeTrout]

Hence my question.

If he is building 223/556 FOR MASSACHUSETTS it doesn’t meet the minimum for hunting black bear and it might be a little much for squirrels if he plans on eating them.

The rest that you just added there goes a long way to clarifying your point. Without adding that you can’t hunt black bear with a 223, it sounds as though you were saying in MA you can hunt bear, coyotes, and squirrels. Are coyotes able to be taken with a 223 in MA?

 

[HorizontalHunter]

The rest that you just added there goes a long way to clarifying your point. Without adding that you can’t hunt black bear with a 223, it sounds as though you were saying in MA you can hunt bear, coyotes, and squirrels. Are coyotes able to be taken with a 223 in MA?

I forgot that you weren’t in Mass.

The OP doesn’t sound like a Mass hunter either; of course if you did a 330 BLK, or 50 Beowulf build, or second upper, you could have lots of fun and a rifle for black bear.

Yes, on coyotes but only during the day:

Rifles and handguns:

• Daytime hunting: During the period from ½ hour before sunrise to ½ hour after sunset, there are no restrictions on size or caliber of rifles or handguns.
• Nighttime hunting: During the period from ½ hour after sunset to midnight rifles are restricted to those chambered not larger than .22 long rifle and handguns are restricted to those chambered not larger than .38 caliber.
• Prohibited during the shotgun deer season.

 

[peterk123]

So I dont want to have a fixed magazine (if possible) which is why (from my understanding of the verbiage) you can only have 2 of the "evil features" - pistol grip, telescoping/collapsible/ folding stock, removable magazine, Barrel Comp, Bayonet lug, Grenade Launcher

I wish to keep removable magazine (so I can add pre-ban mags if I find any), and be able to swap out barrel compensators.

Pre ban mags for hunting? I take it you are planning to miss a lot. I mean really a lot.

 

[Mountain]

Fixed mag lowers are not the answer.

This. I tried it and later ran screaming and yelling away from it. They are actually pretty handy and via a good loader can be loaded up with 10 rounds very quickly. And yes- you can have all the fun evil features. All is good until it jams, then you will be cursing not only the person who invented fixed mag AR's but also his ancestors, future descendants, and even his dog. Usually they will jam in a manner that prevents you from separating the upper from the lower, making it extremely difficult to clear the jam. AVOID!

@ItsBildo - The good news is that a great hunting AR is pretty much devoid of excess evil features anyway. A medium to heavy weight 20" barrel with a target crown and no muzzle device will give you the best accuracy and no need to pin and weld. A heavy weight barrel fluted to cut down on some of the weight is ideal. If you want MOA accuracy or even sub-MOA accuracy, you can do that with a matched bolt and high quality 2-stage trigger.

You can have a pistol grip and normal mags. I'd use a non-collapsible stock with an adjustable cheek riser- as from Luth AR, Magpul, etc.

 

[Mountain]

Pre ban mags for hunting? I take it you are planning to miss a lot. I mean really a lot.

Absolutely no need for pre-ban mags when hunting. They'll get in the way. 20's might be so-so but 30's will be ridiculous. 10-round mags are fine for hunting, if that's a legal capacity for your intended hunting.

 

[peterk123]

Absolutely no need for pre-ban mags when hunting. They'll get in the way. 20's might be so-so but 30's will be ridiculous. 10-round mags are fine for hunting, if that's a legal capacity for your intended hunting.

Ya, I just picked up a couple ten rounders for coyote because all I had was 30 rounders. Kind of tough to use those 30 rounders when lying flat on the ground.

Actually hoping to get to the range tomorrow to shoot the ARs out to 300 meters. We may go after some yotes this weekend.

 

[PappyM3]

People are getting hung up on the guy wanting an AR for hunting. The beauty is that when you’re not hunting with it, it can be used for home defense and more.

So yeah, preban mags are still a good thing.

@ItsBildo , listen to @CrackPot .

But if you want the adjustability of a telescoping stock, you don’t even need to pin it at a shop though. You can replace the spring loaded adjuster with a bolt and a custom nut. They’re available for USGI style adjusters and Magpul style from Aimsport. The USGI one also works in B5 Sopmod stocks and some other companies too. I haven’t used the Magpul one, but with the USGI one, you can just unscrew it, put the nut in a different spot and screw it back in. The pain is when initially installing it the roll pin holding the spring loaded bolt in place is a bitch to get out.

USGI: AR M4 STOCK LOCKING PIN

Magpul: STOCK LOCKING PIN for [Magpul stock]

 

[Mass-diver]

1.) buy a pre-94 lower
2.) AWBs are unconstitutional

 

[Coyote33]

I just saw a nice bolt TC .223 hunting rifle with scope in the classifieds here.

 

[Coyote33]

What exactly is this, to you?

The only things you can hunt in this state with a rifle are black bear, coyote, and squirrels.

Also fox, woodchuck, skunk, bobcat, flying squirrels, chipmunk, I'm sure there are more.
not sure about turkeys

 

[pastera]

I would just build the AR and not pin the muzzle device..

To my knowledge and IANAL, the AWB says "no flash hider".. there are those more knowledgeable than I am, saying it has to be pinned/welded to make it legal according to ATF/federal rules, but I never saw anything in MGL saying it had to be pinned/welded.

what's your risk factor? IMHO, to get jammed up on an unpinned muzzle brake or compensator, you have to be in a lot more hot water on other legal issues.

MGL says no threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash hider
If a brake is pinned and welded the barrel is no longer capable of accepting a flash hider.

Buy as you say - Big Boy Rules apply so do what you are comfortable with

 

[Jenska22]

What exactly is this, to you?

The only things you can hunt in this state with a rifle are black bear, coyote, and squirrels.

annndddd WABBITS (and hares).

 

[Jenska22]

These work extremely well but look tacti-stupid - difference between having the redirector on and off is huge.

$60 looks worthwhile, anyone have experience with these?

 

[allen-1]

How often are you going to change out the muzzle device, especially on a hunting rifle?
All of the hand grip deletes I've seen just plain suck so you will be giving up comfort for pretty much nothing

This. Which agrees with what @LakeTrout said.

Either go with a 16" barrel without attachment, or pick a brake and have it pinned/welded to a 14.5 barrel to make it non-SBR. Unless you're running suppressors, you're not going to be swapping out brakes. And if you are running suppressors, just pin/weld the adaptor and call it a day.

Pin the stock to the length you want.

Now you have two evil features - detachable magazine and pistol grip.

 

[Picton]

Kind of tough to use those 30 rounders when lying flat on the ground.

Not really. Plenty of soldiers have learned to use thirties just fine in the prone.

I agree with your main point, though. If I were hunting with an AR, I'd put a twenty in there. They look better, feel better, and that's plenty of ammo.

OP, choosing a weirdo stock/pistol grip over a muzzle device strikes me as an odd choice, but it's your rifle. I'd configure it A1/A2/A4 style and just rock an old-skool buttstock.

 

[PappyM3]

This. Which agrees with what @LakeTrout said.

Either go with a 16" barrel without attachment, or pick a brake and have it pinned/welded to a 14.5 barrel to make it non-SBR. Unless you're running suppressors, you're not going to be swapping out brakes. And if you are running suppressors, just pin/weld the adaptor and call it a day.

Pin the stock to the length you want.

Now you have two evil features - detachable magazine and pistol grip.

Please pick a comp instead of a brake.

 

[pastera]

$60 looks worthwhile, anyone have experience with these?

I have a couple - of you are around Taunton you are welcome to try one.
Goes from concussively loud to quite comfortable with the redirector.
I only run it without the redirect on if the guy in the next lane is also running an annoying brake

 

[pastera]

If a muzzle attachment is one of the evil features, I would take telescoping stock over it, without question. Especially because you can’t have a flash hider. So, you’re limited to muzzle break which to me is an awful idea on a 5.56 gun. I’d rather just have a non threaded barrel.

But an adjustable stock is really nice to have for shooting in different positions, especially with a magnified optic that has limited eye relief, and it’s nice to be able to adjust for what you are wearing in terms of kit or clothing.

You can have an adjustable stock just not a collapsing or folding stock
So the higher end adjustable LOP and cheek rest adjustable stocks are good to go but are not a cheap option - nor do they look sturdy enough for in the woods work.

 

[LakeTrout]

You can have an adjustable stock just not a collapsing or folding stock
So the higher end adjustable LOP and cheek rest adjustable stocks are good to go but are not a cheap option - nor do they look sturdy enough for in the woods work.

That is interesting. I’m picturing adjustable stocks that I see for precision rifle shooting. Are there any that are more geared toward A duty AR or home defense AR? Only reason is I imagine the ones I’m thinking would be getting hung up on everything and aren’t as easy to adjust quickly

 

[pastera]

People are getting hung up on the guy wanting an AR for hunting. The beauty is that when you’re not hunting with it, it can be used for home defense and more.

So yeah, preban mags are still a good thing.

@ItsBildo , listen to @CrackPot .

But if you want the adjustability of a telescoping stock, you don’t even need to pin it at a shop though. You can replace the spring loaded adjuster with a bolt and a custom nut. They’re available for USGI style adjusters and Magpul style from Aimsport. The USGI one also works in B5 Sopmod stocks and some other companies too. I haven’t used the Magpul one, but with the USGI one, you can just unscrew it, put the nut in a different spot and screw it back in. The pain is when initially installing it the roll pin holding the spring loaded bolt in place is a bitch to get out.

USGI: AR M4 STOCK LOCKING PIN

Magpul: STOCK LOCKING PIN for [Magpul stock]

There is also this option:

AR Stock Stop

Keep the look of your existing stock and buffer tube but be able to convert it to fixed! The Stock Stop is the most affordable, easiest, and quickest way to convert your collapsible stock into a fixed stock. The Stock Stop fills in all but one receiver extension hole. This ensures that the stock...

www.strikeindustries.com

I wouldn't rely on that alone but it does allow you to remove stock rattle also.
I designed my own version with a tensioning set screw that is 3d printable - I can print a few out on request

Also my stock pinning option is to completely remove the adjustment lever and internal parts - replace the locking pin with a short locking pin with a #4 thread on the back side. Screw a #4-40 into the pin to install and adjust. Once it's where I want, pull the screw and tap in a printed TPU plug (completely blind on inspection but reversible with hand tools)

 

[pastera]

That is interesting. I’m picturing adjustable stocks that I see for precision rifle shooting. Are there any that are more geared toward A duty AR or home defense AR? Only reason is I imagine the ones I’m thinking would be getting hung up on everything and aren’t as easy to adjust quickly

Exactly what I am talking about

 

[Boghog1]

The two features to keep are detachable magazine and pistol grip, pin and weld muzzle devise that isn't a flash hider or non threaded barrel takes care up front, don't use an FSB front sight, pinned or Fixed stock and your done.

 

[PappyM3]

You can have an adjustable stock just not a collapsing or folding stock
So the higher end adjustable LOP and cheek rest adjustable stocks are good to go but are not a cheap option - nor do they look sturdy enough for in the woods work.

That is interesting. I’m picturing adjustable stocks that I see for precision rifle shooting. Are there any that are more geared toward A duty AR or home defense AR? Only reason is I imagine the ones I’m thinking would be getting hung up on everything and aren’t as easy to adjust quickly

The B5 Collapsible Precision Stock allows for fine tuning of length of pull and comb. And it’s very sturdy.

Downside is that it’s pricey and heavy. It’s also telescoping, so you need to fix it at one position on the receiver extension. BUT, once you do you have about 1” of LOP adjustment to work with.

I can confirm that it’s possible to use the aimsport bolt/pin setup on this stock. I can show pictures of the steps necessary if you want to go this route.

https://b5systems.com/collapsible-precision-stock-short/

There’s also the Magpul PRS Lite, but it’s LOP is only adjustable from kind of long to long.

PRS® Lite Stock

Lightweight Purpose-Built Stock

magpul.com

 

[556USER]

I appears that in Maine when using an auto loading rifle to hunt you can only have a 5 round mag. Anyway, if you miss you aren't likely to get a second shot. If you need to finish one off I'd think another 4 would do the trick ;-). Those pesky rules. Mag dumps in the woods during hunting season might not end that well in some cases. LOL And no I'm not a FUDD.....see Mr H

Laws Pertaining to Hunting Equipment: Laws & Rules: Hunting: Hunting & Trapping: Maine Dept of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife

 

[EMTDAD]

MGL says no threaded barrel capable of accepting a flash hider
If a brake is pinned and welded the barrel is no longer capable of accepting a flash hider.

Buy as you say - Big Boy Rules apply so do what you are comfortable with

Not specifically stated in MGL, but referenced to the federal AWB of 1994 which states "a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor"

As Jack Reacher says. Details matter.

 

[pastera]

Not specifically stated in MGL, but referenced to the federal AWB of 1994 which states "a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor"

As Jack Reacher says. Details matter.

True - but most people asking don't get the reference so it's better to simply state it because the text IS included with the reference.
It's not there but it is there - more fun and confusing BS in Mass law...