Lucky my brother carries.

jason6 said:
I think this is a pretty bad idea.

On the surface, nowhere in this country is it legal to brandish a firearm to someone for saying "lets do it". Saying "lets do it" is not a crime. Then factor in we're in MA where you have a duty to retreat. Its just a bad idea.

People see brandishing for what it is- a macho challenge. "see what i got? you really want to mess with me?". Thats what it is. If you have to shoot someone and get to court you're going to look like an aggressive *******, that contributed to the problem. Forget possible criminal charges, you'll go broke just defending yourself from wrongful death- win or lose.

Me, i'd beat feet. Perhaps indicate verbally to them that i feel threatened, "hey guys i dont want any trouble, please don't follow us" or whatever, before beating feat. I know it's not macho and cool, but that's the right thing to do. If said BG's ignore you or threaten you, and beat feet after you then i'd feel pretty comfortable (legally a morally) pulling on them if i had to. Later in a civil court (and perhaps criminal) i could explain that i did everything i could possibly do to diffuse and avoid the situation.

Look at it from a different perspective even- what if its a misunderstanding? What if they were talking about something else and had a legitimate (lawful) reason to turn around and walk the same direction as said person? All they said was "lets do it". If the person you misunderstood is a fellow CCW'r he'd be within his legal rights to draw on you, then you draw, and its a shootout that you unlawfully started. Youre looking at mucho jail time and probably going broke too.

I mean seriously, if all they say is "lets do it", even if those guys are planning on raping and killing both of you, if you avoid criminal charges, BG's family is still going to sue you for wrongful death and say he was a good kid that forgot his contact lens solution, or something, that they were turning around to go back to the store and get it when some stranger pulled a gun on them for no reason...

I just think brandishing is always a bad idea, especially in Mass.... If you're carrying the trump card, dont play it in the middle of the hand. If you show someone you're carrying, let them be looking down the barrel- hold 'em or fold 'em, game over.
Click to expand...


so you think his brother should have let them at least throw a punch first? or stab him? or stab his wife? Not me.
 
jason6 said:
I think this is a pretty bad idea.

On the surface, nowhere in this country is it legal to brandish a firearm to someone for saying "lets do it". Saying "lets do it" is not a crime. Then factor in we're in MA where you have a duty to retreat. Its just a bad idea.

People see brandishing for what it is- a macho challenge. "see what i got? you really want to mess with me?". Thats what it is. If you have to shoot someone and get to court you're going to look like an aggressive *******, that contributed to the problem. Forget possible criminal charges, you'll go broke just defending yourself from wrongful death- win or lose.

Me, i'd beat feet. Perhaps indicate verbally to them that i feel threatened, "hey guys i dont want any trouble, please don't follow us" or whatever, before beating feat. I know it's not macho and cool, but that's the right thing to do. If said BG's ignore you or threaten you, and beat feet after you then i'd feel pretty comfortable (legally a morally) pulling on them if i had to. Later in a civil court (and perhaps criminal) i could explain that i did everything i could possibly do to diffuse and avoid the situation.

Look at it from a different perspective even- what if its a misunderstanding? What if they were talking about something else and had a legitimate (lawful) reason to turn around and walk the same direction as said person? All they said was "lets do it". If the person you misunderstood is a fellow CCW'r he'd be within his legal rights to draw on you, then you draw, and its a shootout that you unlawfully started. Youre looking at mucho jail time and probably going broke too.

I mean seriously, if all they say is "lets do it", even if those guys are planning on raping and killing both of you, if you avoid criminal charges, BG's family is still going to sue you for wrongful death and say he was a good kid that forgot his contact lens solution, or something, that they were turning around to go back to the store and get it when some stranger pulled a gun on them for no reason...

I just think brandishing is always a bad idea, especially in Mass.... If you're carrying the trump card, dont play it in the middle of the hand. If you show someone you're carrying, let them be looking down the barrel- hold 'em or fold 'em, game over.
Click to expand...

"Beating feet"? I'm thinking the guys with his wife so that might not be the best option unless you are thinking to leave her behind in her heels. If it was a miss understanding how about the 3 guys saying "Hey we aren't following you we're just walking the same way".

Im not sure the scenario of you brandish, they draw is going to ever happen in this circumstance. Excellent move on his part to avoid what could have been an ugly situation. Hes at least planned a seed in those guys little heads that some people might be carrying.
 
back in 89 when i was 19 i had to pull my 686 on two guys in a pizza restaurant parking lot. went to a place across town because the local shop was closed for a vacation. it was muggy summer night but i grabbed my 2.5" 686 in my shadow concealment iwb holster, which under a loose tee makes a cannon disappear. walking to the car with pizza in left hand a black and white (maybe white hispanic) from about 20 ft away walking towards me, when of them says "give me that" I say loudly "what" and probably drew it as fast as I ever had and leveled it to about 45 degrees. one of them mutterred something like "joking". i was about 1/2 second away from shooting one of them if they had kept advancing. No cops called. I figured I did not break any law and would not want them to have my name and address.
 
Nooo, according to some you MUST flee, that's brandishing and you were JUST putting on a "macho" show

C'mon now, you can admit, you're amongst friends here

My god that post was so pathetic, not yours CT

CTpatriot said:
back in 89 when i was 19 i had to pull my 686 on two guys in a pizza restaurant parking lot. went to a place across town because the local shop was closed for a vacation. it was muggy summer night but i grabbed my 2.5" 686 in my shadow concealment iwb holster, which under a loose tee makes a cannon disappear. walking to the car with pizza in left hand a black and white (maybe white hispanic) from about 20 ft away walking towards me, when of them says "give me that" I say loudly "what" and probably drew it as fast as I ever had and leveled it to about 45 degrees. one of them mutterred something like "joking". i was about 1/2 second away from shooting one of them if they had kept advancing. No cops called. I figured I did not break any law and would not want them to have my name and address.
Click to expand...
 
jason6 said:
Me, i'd beat feet. Perhaps indicate verbally to them that i feel threatened, "hey guys i dont want any trouble, please don't follow us" or whatever, before beating feat. I know it's not macho and cool, but that's the right thing to do. If said BG's ignore you or threaten you, and beat feet after you then i'd feel pretty comfortable (legally a morally) pulling on them if i had to.
Click to expand...
The self defense stuff I've read say to get out of the situation if you can. I can't say what I would do, but I would be looking to the nearest crowd of people to try to deter, but I might be inclined to flash my snub.

Zielstrebig said:
Four perps, one gun. Sounds like it could have been a Bernie Goetz moment. There I go getting all verklempt.
Click to expand...
Me too.
 
I hope no one misunderstands me either, I'm not saying pull on these people and drop them. That is only going to end badly for all involved,

When you find yourself in a situation, you only have, in most cases, split seconds to decide which action you're going to take. You have to assess your situation and very quickly decide, fight or flight. If flight is an option, I would say get the heck out of there however, when encountered in close proximity, within feet, flight, unless you're a world class sprinter, you will become the hunted, most everyone will tell you tactically, that's not the best place to be, you are reacting instead of dictating the terms of the engagement. That IS a tactically weak position.

When you're at such close range, trying to diffuse the situation takes on a different flavor, while the fight may not be the first step, you MUST take the position of preparedness and begin a defensive stance, that may mean, raising your shirt to make your draw unimpeded if it becomes necessary. You MUST remember this encounter is within feet, your reaction time will be GREATLY diminished, you MUST decide quickly what you will do and how you will react......

When someone in close feels threatened, I can rarely if ever fault them for becoming defensive, to include showing and drawing if need is felt....
 
I just think brandishing is always a bad idea, especially in Mass.... If you're carrying the trump card, dont play it in the middle of the hand. If you show someone you're carrying, let them be looking down the barrel- hold 'em or fold 'em, game over.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to judge the OP's brother as we were not there. Would I have exposed or drawn my firearm? I do not know. There are a lot of factors that go into the decision. How close were the guys? How close is safety? Were they 19 year old kids or 27 year old thugs?

But there is no way I would let them get closer than 10 feet from us. Even if you are armed, 4 assailants at arms length can still prevail. So what would I do? Well, sitting nice and safe at home. with plenty of time to think about it and no adrenaline pumping, I would have said " Hey guys, we don't want any trouble, and unless you guys are wearing body armour, you don't want and trouble either" All said while resting my hand on the but of my 1911 and lighting a Newport.

OR... Since my wife carries too. We would stop and rest our hands on our concealed firearm and I would say " Honey, you shoot the two on the left, and i will shoot the two on the right" and my wife would respond "OK, but don't shoot them too close cause these shoes are new and I don't want to ruin them.

The bottom line is that it ended with a favorable outcome. Works for me.
 
fencer said:
I don't think it's fair to judge the OP's brother as we were not there. Would I have exposed or drawn my firearm? I do not know. There are a lot of factors that go into the decision. How close were the guys? How close is safety? Were they 19 year old kids or 27 year old thugs?

But there is no way I would let them get closer than 10 feet from us. Even if you are armed, 4 assailants at arms length can still prevail. So what would I do? Well, sitting nice and safe at home. with plenty of time to think about it and no adrenaline pumping, I would have said " Hey guys, we don't want any trouble, and unless you guys are wearing body armour, you don't want and trouble either" All said while resting my hand on the but of my 1911 and lighting a Newport.

OR... Since my wife carries too. We would stop and rest our hands on our concealed firearm and I would say " Honey, you shoot the two on the left, and i will shoot the two on the right" and my wife would respond "OK, but don't shoot them too close cause these shoes are new and I don't want to ruin them.

The bottom line is that it ended with a favorable outcome. Works for me.
Click to expand...

I read that all in a steven seagal voice.
 
ColdDayInHell said:
Glad they're okay. Boston is a shithole. I was just having a conversation with a lady friend who's partying at clubs in Boston. I'm like, not even my knife is legal there [rofl]. What a joke. Stay safe everyone.
Click to expand...

Screwdrivers are pretty easy to get in a club, unless they have a metal detector.

Then again, no one suspects the sturdy retractable pen.

OP's brother did the right thing. I'd suggest he stay away from alleys though.
 
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I love those that are judging his bother. For those judging why the hell would you even bother carrying EVER? With essentially a 4-1 (not counting the wife) he is at a severe disadvantage plus the wife tying him down. At the same point you're supposed to retreat if possible. What's he supposed to do run until one of them catches him all while his wife gets mugged/raped? I've flashed once and drawn twice. Never been an issue with any of them because there's justification (just like this guy had).

Once the neighbor of one of my rentals couldn't control their mean pit as I was subsequently getting tools out of the truck. The dog had already but a Westfield cop (unlawful entry so dog stayed) and then about a month later upon a warrant raid the dog bit a cop again the msp FAT opened fire on the dog. Justified in your eyes?

Another was in Springfield at 3am after walking some girls back to their car from the bars. I was followed across 3 streets and as he closed in I opened dialog. He pulled a knife and as I pulled the shirt and started to draw I was called everything a "white boy in the hood" could be called while he was running away. Justified?

At another rental there was a guy running his mouth in the street yelling and swearing in the phone. I told him to watch his mouth since there were kids all around. Well he went over to the drug house and 8 of them came at me with pipes and bats. Who know what else but I wasn't letting them get close enough. Did they deserve the red dot on the chest? I'm glad I had the second mag ready. Or I guess I should have RAN in to the house and called 911.

His brother was justified if he felt threatened. He could tell by their action and demeanor and it's a much better resolution then I'd he let them get a jump on him. Those that question someone in a what if in a situation like that piss me right the **** off. Unless you are there with your other half who are you to judge? No one got hurt and that's all that matters. Hopefully they will think twice before planning to jump the next person but I doubt it.
 
jason6 said:
I think this is a pretty bad idea.

On the surface, nowhere in this country is it legal to brandish a firearm to someone for saying "lets do it". Saying "lets do it" is not a crime. Then factor in we're in MA where you have a duty to retreat. Its just a bad idea.

People see brandishing for what it is- a macho challenge. "see what i got? you really want to mess with me?". Thats what it is. If you have to shoot someone and get to court you're going to look like an aggressive *******, that contributed to the problem. Forget possible criminal charges, you'll go broke just defending yourself from wrongful death- win or lose.

Me, i'd beat feet. Perhaps indicate verbally to them that i feel threatened, "hey guys i dont want any trouble, please don't follow us" or whatever, before beating feat. I know it's not macho and cool, but that's the right thing to do. If said BG's ignore you or threaten you, and beat feet after you then i'd feel pretty comfortable (legally a morally) pulling on them if i had to. Later in a civil court (and perhaps criminal) i could explain that i did everything i could possibly do to diffuse and avoid the situation.

Look at it from a different perspective even- what if its a misunderstanding? What if they were talking about something else and had a legitimate (lawful) reason to turn around and walk the same direction as said person? All they said was "lets do it". If the person you misunderstood is a fellow CCW'r he'd be within his legal rights to draw on you, then you draw, and its a shootout that you unlawfully started. Youre looking at mucho jail time and probably going broke too.

I mean seriously, if all they say is "lets do it", even if those guys are planning on raping and killing both of you, if you avoid criminal charges, BG's family is still going to sue you for wrongful death and say he was a good kid that forgot his contact lens solution, or something, that they were turning around to go back to the store and get it when some stranger pulled a gun on them for no reason...

I just think brandishing is always a bad idea, especially in Mass.... If you're carrying the trump card, dont play it in the middle of the hand. If you show someone you're carrying, let them be looking down the barrel- hold 'em or fold 'em, game over.
Click to expand...
The reasons why I carry a gun are that I am too fat to run, I'm too old to fight 4 guys, and a LEO is too heavy to carry around. His brother did everything right, IMO. According to you, we should just let the thugs take over the streets at night, and rely on the cops and a good endurance to stay safe. Not my cup of tea, to be honest with you.
 
Before I tipped my hand and made them aware I was carrying (flash/brandish/whatever) I would have crossed the street and see if they followed. It would give Me a better idea of their intentions and also show that I tried to avoid a confrontation should the question ever come up.
 
From the original post, the group JUST passed them and they were close enough to hear .

They were already too close, further away, I would agree


7.62x39 said:
Before I tipped my hand and made them aware I was carrying (flash/brandish/whatever) I would have crossed the street and see if they followed. It would give Me a better idea of their intentions and also show that I tried to avoid a confrontation should the question ever come up.
Click to expand...
 
do you think they would have stopped chasing him if he turned into a raging homo. really flamboyant. either way it would have been a great thing to watch.
 
Wicked1911 said:
I was taking to my brother who has had his LTC-A with no restrictions for about 7 years now. And he was telling me how just last week him and his wife went out on a date night in Boston around the china town area. And afterwards while they were walking to where they had parked their car, it was a dark area and seemed like no one was around. But almost out of nowhere these four guys came out of the shadows and walked right by my brother and his wife and as they passed they gave my brother a weird stare as if they were sizing him up and my brother stared them back as they past not to be surprised. Where me and my brother were raised we learned to always keep looking behind you every couple of seconds just to be sure you're not gonna get jumped. So my brother whos very street smart took another look back shortly after they passed and heard one of them wisper loudly to another something like "F'it lets do it" and they all turned around and started to follow my brother and his wife but almost instantly my brother lifted up the back of his shirt to clearly show his Glock 22 and they quickly turned back around and started walking away in a hurry. My brother said that he was sure if he had not been carrying that he and his wife would have been attacked for sure. So I thought it was a good story to share here with everyone, and remember be safe out there and carry always.
Click to expand...

FIFY [thumbsup] to your bro!
 
frenchman said:
The reasons why I carry a gun are that I am too fat to run, I'm too old to fight 4 guys, and a LEO is too heavy to carry around. His brother did everything right, IMO. According to you, we should just let the thugs take over the streets at night, and rely on the cops and a good endurance to stay safe. Not my cup of tea, to be honest with you.
Click to expand...
Speaking of LEO...not sure if it was relivent to my brothers decision or not at the time cause I wasn't there but he has a lot of friends in law enforcement and he himself is about to become a LEO very soon. Like I said I wasn't there but I know my brother has a level head so he must have done what he thought was necessary.
 
Last edited:
jason6 said:
I think this is a pretty bad idea.

On the surface, nowhere in this country is it legal to brandish a firearm to someone for saying "lets do it". Saying "lets do it" is not a crime. Then factor in we're in MA where you have a duty to retreat. Its just a bad idea.

People see brandishing for what it is- a macho challenge. "see what i got? you really want to mess with me?". Thats what it is. If you have to shoot someone and get to court you're going to look like an aggressive *******, that contributed to the problem. Forget possible criminal charges, you'll go broke just defending yourself from wrongful death- win or lose.

Me, i'd beat feet. Perhaps indicate verbally to them that i feel threatened, "hey guys i dont want any trouble, please don't follow us" or whatever, before beating feat. I know it's not macho and cool, but that's the right thing to do. If said BG's ignore you or threaten you, and beat feet after you then i'd feel pretty comfortable (legally a morally) pulling on them if i had to. Later in a civil court (and perhaps criminal) i could explain that i did everything i could possibly do to diffuse and avoid the situation.

Look at it from a different perspective even- what if its a misunderstanding? What if they were talking about something else and had a legitimate (lawful) reason to turn around and walk the same direction as said person? All they said was "lets do it". If the person you misunderstood is a fellow CCW'r he'd be within his legal rights to draw on you, then you draw, and its a shootout that you unlawfully started. Youre looking at mucho jail time and probably going broke too.

I mean seriously, if all they say is "lets do it", even if those guys are planning on raping and killing both of you, if you avoid criminal charges, BG's family is still going to sue you for wrongful death and say he was a good kid that forgot his contact lens solution, or something, that they were turning around to go back to the store and get it when some stranger pulled a gun on them for no reason...

I just think brandishing is always a bad idea, especially in Mass.... If you're carrying the trump card, dont play it in the middle of the hand. If you show someone you're carrying, let them be looking down the barrel- hold 'em or fold 'em, game over.
Click to expand...

You take your moral high ground. The OP did what was necessary to diffuse the situation. He also managed to do this without dropping anyone (although, they might have deserved it).

If you note, the OP mentioned his brother and brother's wife were out on date night, typically that's something people get a little dressed up for. Are you able to "beat feet" well in heals?
 
I read this story and all I do is get very pissed off. I get pissed of at our state and lawmakers. If there ever was engagement it would have been a life and death difference between 10 rounds and 17. And they want to reduce even further. 10 rounds is not enough for 4 attackers.
 

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