LTC Expired thanks to delays, now what?

pthomas65

pthomas65

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My PD said hopefully by Mid August I will get my renewal (Expired today). So guys does this mean I cannot sell or purchase firearms? What about ammo and ammo components?
Filed April 1, got my interview May 1 (picture and prints). I was assured by the LEO that there is a 90 day grace period but who will sell me anything with an expired license.
The LEO was very supportive, he said it is the State that is causing the delays. I am not looking to make waves, I have been following a number of threads with members having an incredible wait times for their LTC's like my self I just want to know what rights I have just lost.
 
I do not believe you will have success buying ammo or firearms from a dealer with an expired LTC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
just venture to the glorious state of free nh. I never get carded unless im at walmart or dicks. local gun stores never have

where you located
 
Mid AUGUST!?!?!? Je$us Tap dancing Chri$t.

Well, your current license is still good for the 90 days since you applied prior to expiration. Keep calling and good luck.
 
No purchase or sale, however you are legal. Ammo, well that is grey. If you are a reg at a gun shop and don't get carded, you will be fine, or you can purchase in NH. My understanding of this, and LenS will know best, if you are pulled over there is no way to check in the computer that you are within the grace period, or that you filed before. Some leos may not even be aware of the grace period.
If it were me, I would have with me, a copy of my renewal paperwork, stating that I renewed before expiration, a copy of the MGL that states there is a grace period, and I would drive the speed limit.
I also plan on going in six months before expiration to get my renewal, but I am a little bit conservative.
 
Greschner 4 said:
My question is whether you are able to be in possession of a firearm/ammo post expiration.
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Yes, for the 90 day grace period provided:

1. You applied for renewal prior to expiration
2. You have not been notified your renewal application has been denied

You can legally buy guns form a dealer, but the MIRCS system is not set up to support this so the EOPS has, for all practical purposes, stripped this right from you.
 
A license to carry or possess firearms shall be valid, unless revoked or suspended, for a period of not more than 6 years from the date of issue and shall expire on the anniversary of the licensee’s date of birth occurring not less than 5 years but not more than 6 years from the date of issue, except that if the licensee applied for renewal before the license expired, the license shall remain valid for a period of 90 days beyond the stated expiration date on the license, unless the application for renewal is denied."
 
Yes, you have a 90 day grace period to carry on an expired LTC provided you applied to renew before the expiration date. No, you can not buy ammunition or firearms on that. The advice used to be to hold on to your receipt for the renewal fee just in case, but I don't know if you still have to do that as everything goes into the database now.

I had this happen to me a few cycles ago and this was what the licensing officer told me at the time.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Do they require local to prove NH residency?
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As I understand it, they require ID, and if the DL is from Mass, they also require a LTC. My info comes from a thread some time ago where a "senior" NES member who owns a LGS in NH tried to correct my errant attitude (that his policy is bullshit). [wink]

ETA: I do agree, his store, his rules. But I don't have to like it.

ETA again: Here, post #91
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...198342-whats-all-nh-dealers-iding-ammo-3.html
 
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Renewals are taking that long? My LTC expires in February 2014. I should probably start the renewal process...
 
n1bsbri said:
Many LGSs in Southern NH take it upon themselves to refuse ammo to MA residents without a LTC. I don't understand it in a supposedly "free" state, but there it is.
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I'd guess that they don't want to sell to someone who can't possess ammunition in MA, so they want an LTC or FID. With the enforcement atmosphere at the federal level, it's probably prudent.
 
Pete85 said:
Renewals are taking that long? My LTC expires in February 2014. I should probably start the renewal process...
Click to expand...
I would make an appointment and explain you know about the delay and want to get ahead of the process.
Garys said:
I'd guess that they don't want to sell to someone who can't possess ammunition in MA, so they want an LTC or FID. With the enforcement atmosphere at the federal level, it's probably prudent.
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The MA AG has proven that she will go after anyone for gun related items. The cost to defend alone makes it reasonable for NH dealers to be cautious. I don't like it either, but I can't say I blame them.
 
Mr. Brownstone said:
The MA AG has proven that she will go after anyone for gun related items. The cost to defend alone makes it reasonable for NH dealers to be cautious. I don't like it either, but I can't say I blame them.
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While true, that isn't the problem here. While she has jurisdiction in MA, that stops at the border. Unlike with vendors who will ship ammunition here, she can't threaten a NH dealer who sells ammunition in NH with any sort of action. At least I don't think so, especially after the court decided that she couldn't demand that a company in NH that also had stores in MA didn't have to collect sales tax from MA residents.

The issue is the ATF, which licenses firearms dealers. The issue is also interstate transportation. It's complicated and I'm not well versed at all in it, but I do know that people have been charged in federal court for crimes committed entirely in MA because the ammunition or firearms they used in their alleged crimes were brought in from other states. It's that whole Interstate Commerce Claus thing.
 
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Garys said:
While true, that isn't the problem here. While she has jurisdiction in MA, that stops at the border. The issue is the ATF, which licenses firearms dealers. The issue is also interstate transportation. It's complicated and I'm not well versed at all in it, but I do know that people have been charged in federal court for crimes committed entirely in MA because the ammunition or firearms they used in their alleged crimes were brought in from other states. It's that whole Interstate Commerce Clause thing.
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"What you tolerate, you encourage."
 
Wow... can you imagine if drivers licenses worked like this?

"Well, you're still allowed to drive your car, since you applied before your license expired, but you can't buy any gas." [frown]
 
pthomas65 said:
North Reading. As I stated earlier, I live in a green town, the PD's are pretty good to their residents here. The LEO is doing his job he said its the State causing the long delays.
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Go to the thread I linked and you will see towns are all over the place with renewals. My renewal in Wareham a green town was around 10 weeks, last year.
 
Pete85 said:
Renewals are taking that long? My LTC expires in February 2014. I should probably start the renewal process...
Click to expand...

I was advised by the CoP in my town to submit my renewal now (my expiration date is in the fall). The licensing officer actually drove to my house to return my paperwork, telling me that the MIRC system will not accept my application at this time because it's >30 days before the expiration date.

I am not expecting that my renewal will come within 120 days (30 days prior to expiration plus 90 day grace period) given current situation. Not pleased to say the least.
 
Mr. Brownstone said:
No purchase or sale, however you are legal. Ammo, well that is grey. If you are a reg at a gun shop and don't get carded, you will be fine, or you can purchase in NH. My understanding of this, and LenS will know best, if you are pulled over there is no way to check in the computer that you are within the grace period, or that you filed before. Some leos may not even be aware of the grace period.
If it were me, I would have with me, a copy of my renewal paperwork, stating that I renewed before expiration, a copy of the MGL that states there is a grace period, and I would drive the speed limit.
I also plan on going in six months before expiration to get my renewal, but I am a little bit conservative.
Click to expand...

It's not actually illegal to purchase during the grace period. It is more of "the system won't let me do it" issue. There is no official receipt and carrying around a copy of your application will be shredded long before you ever see your LTC. Not to mention most dealers would still refuse to sell you anything.


Garys said:
Yes, you have a 90 day grace period to carry on an expired LTC provided you applied to renew before the expiration date. No, you can not buy ammunition or firearms on that. The advice used to be to hold on to your receipt for the renewal fee just in case, but I don't know if you still have to do that as everything goes into the database now.

I had this happen to me a few cycles ago and this was what the licensing officer told me at the time.
Click to expand...

The database it goes in is NOT accessible to anyone other than FRB and the PD processing the renewal. Thus the problem.


Garys said:
I'd guess that they don't want to sell to someone who can't possess ammunition in MA, so they want an LTC or FID. With the enforcement atmosphere at the federal level, it's probably prudent.
Click to expand...

Yes and there is another dimension to this as well.


Mr. Brownstone said:
I would make an appointment and explain you know about the delay and want to get ahead of the process.

The MA AG has proven that she will go after anyone for gun related items. The cost to defend alone makes it reasonable for NH dealers to be cautious. I don't like it either, but I can't say I blame them.
Click to expand...

Good idea. Also absolutely true.

In addition, the AG would still try and also stir up the media to give negative attention to any dealer that sold something to someone w/o a MA LTC (valid at that time). Bad publicity is also something that non-MA retailers do not like. Retailers with a presence in MA as well as other states could suffer "repercussions" (delays or outright refusal of MA permits to operate) as additional fall-out and don't think it's beneath the AG to threaten them this way, it's not beneath her.

- - - Updated - - -

Viking Kitten said:
I was advised by the CoP in my town to submit my renewal now (my expiration date is in the fall). The licensing officer actually drove to my house to return my paperwork, telling me that the MIRC system will not accept my application at this time because it's >30 days before the expiration date.

I am not expecting that my renewal will come within 120 days (30 days prior to expiration plus 90 day grace period) given current situation. Not pleased to say the least.
Click to expand...

That's BS! Watch for an Email from me.
 
n1bsbri said:
"What you tolerate, you encourage."
Click to expand...

Read the Constitution. It gives the federal government clear jurisdiction over commerce between the states. You can argue whether SCOTUS has over expanded that, but you can't argue that it doesn't exist. Well you can, but you won't have much luck with it. ATF has jurisdiction when arms or ammunition are moved across state lines. That's why there are some moves by states in the west to write laws regarding arms and ammunition made within their borders. What success they'll have is anyone's guess.
 
Garys said:
Read the Constitution. It gives the federal government clear jurisdiction over commerce between the states. You can argue whether SCOTUS has over expanded that, but you can't argue that it doesn't exist. Well you can, but you won't have much luck with it. ATF has jurisdiction when arms or ammunition are moved across state lines. That's why there are some moves by states in the west to write laws regarding arms and ammunition made within their borders. What success they'll have is anyone's guess.
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I guess I'm not understanding. If a MA resident purchases ammo in NH, and subsequently transports it across state lines, how is the shop who sold the ammo responsible for that?

My problem with this (theoretical of course since I'm not a MA inmate) is this scenario: A MA resident without LTC/FIC wants to go shooting with a friend in NH. The NH resident supplies the guns, so there is no issue of the MA resident in possession in MA. The MA resident wants to bring along some ammo to shoot, and stops at a NH gun store. He is prevented from buying it because he "might" take it back to MA? I'm just not seeing how a NH gun store could be held responsible for that, and if they are, that's my reference to the quote above. We should not allow this extra-legal coercion to go on.

But as I pointed out earlier, it's the gun store owner's choice. Nothing illegal about placing those extra requirements on the purchase. I just think it's sad that they feel so scared of our government that they feel they have to do that. It's the government that should be scared of the citizens, I think.

And to sort of bring it back on topic, I was referring to the suggestion someone made that the OP could just run up to NH and buy ammo. Not so fast, in many cases.
 

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