Knives becoming weapon of choice in Gemme's Worcester

Anyone catch the meeting?

Dulling the edge of crime

Worcester considers a limit on the length of knives


Friday, November 7, 2008
Dulling the edge of crime

Worcester considers a limit on the length of knives

By Nick Kotsopoulos TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
[email protected]


WORCESTER— A proposed ordinance regulating knife possession in the city generated strong reservations last night from several people who claimed it would make lawbreakers out of law-abiding citizens.

They contend the ordinance misidentifies the underlying reason behind escalating knife violence in the city and, as a result, could make carrying a jackknife, a Swiss Army or other utility knife a crime because they would be considered weapons.

They also raised concerns about how evenly the law would be enforced, because it would be left to the discretion of police to determine how a person was going to use the knife.

“Knives are not the problem. The problem is how those knives are being used,” William S. Safer, a city resident who has been involved in law enforcement for more than 25 years, told the City Council Public Safety Committee. “This law would wrongly punish everyone.”

Larry Anderson, also a city resident, said because most of the knife violence appears gang-related, the city should be focusing on gang activity rather than adopting a law that would impact law-abiding residents as well.

“If the problem is with gangs and their use of knives and blades, then (the police) should be dealing with the gangs,” Mr. Anderson said. “Don’t use a law that would affect everyone. And if you ban knives, what’s next? Letter openers, Bic pens and paper clips can be used in a fight and cause serious injury as well.”

Eight people spoke before the committee, and all expressed concern about various aspects of the ordinance.

The Public Safety Committee is considering an ordinance developed by the Police Department, Worcester District Attorney’s office and city officials that would make it illegal to carry a knife with a blade longer than 1.5 inches. People caught with such knives in their possession would be fined $300.

The ordinance was put together in response to a dramatic increase in knife violence during the past couple of years. Police Chief Gary J. Gemme said there have been 117 stabbings in the city so far this year, putting it on a pace of about 140 for the year. In comparison, there were 118 stabbings last year and 86 the year before.

Chief Gemme said knife usage in crimes has also increased, with 278 such incidents so far this year compared to 249 for all of last year.

“This is one tool to address this problem,” the chief said. “We, as a community, have to look at knife violence the same way we looked at gun violence a couple of years ago.”

District Attorney Joseph D. Early Jr. said the numbers cited by Chief Gemme are “staggering” and called knife-related violence in the city an “epidemic.” He emphasized that the ordinance would be targeted primarily at the after-hours bar and nightclub crowds where there has been an outbreak of knife-related violence.

“We realized we were going to make some people angry with this, but its greater goal is the public safety,” Mr. Early said. “This is where we have to start. To do nothing is to fail.”

But District 2 City Councilor Philip P. Palmieri said he would be hesitant to support such an ordinance unless there was proof that knife violence has decreased in other communities where similar laws exist. He said he would much rather see tougher laws drawn up for those who commit crimes with a knife.

“I feel strongly about the violence in this city, but I couldn’t support a law that would make law-abiding citizens feel like they were doing something wrong,” Mr. Palmieri said. “I would really like to see us get a lot tougher with those people who commit crimes with knives.”

Councilor-at-Large Joseph M. Petty called the proposed ordinance a “good start.” To address some of the concerns that were raised, he said he would support amending the ordinance to make it illegal to carry a knife with a blade larger than 2.5 inches, thus making it legal to carry many utility and Swiss Army knives.

District 4 Councilor Barbara G. Haller, chairwoman of the Public Safety Committee, said she is convinced of the seriousness of the knife violence in the city. But in light of the concerns that have been raised and suggestions that have been made to amend the ordinance, she said it was appropriate for the committee “to step back and take another look at this.”

The committee tabled the ordinance so the police chief and district attorney can respond to suggestions made to possibly amend it.
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Please note the comments section on the Telegram article.
 
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Here's a novel idea, how about cracking down on murder, assault, gang violence etc., put the thugs in prison and not get so hung up on the criminals chosen toolset.
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screw that.... give them all the death penalty and then never worry about them again.....
oh sorry... I forgot I was living in America "land of the free"

free to kill, rape, stab and not work and still get paid....[rofl][rofl]
 
What these "smoke-in-mirror" politicians never seemingly understand is what economists call the "substitution effect". In essence, when one particular good or service becomes more difficult or expensive to obtain, consumers will consume less of the high-priced stuff and then begin to consume alternatives.

When the price of gasoline moves from $2 to $3 to $4, consumers buy less gas-consuming SUVs and trucks, and buy more fugly looking Priuses.

In this example, if knives become more difficult or expensive to obtain, criminals will either increase their desire for firearms or some other weapon class.
 
from Sunday's paper:
Council apparently rethinking scope of knife ordinance

Sunday, November 9, 2008
Council apparently rethinking scope of knife ordinance

Nick KOTSOPOULOS Politics and the City


"I feel like this is a hysterical exercise in political theater."
COLIN NOVICK OF WORCESTER
Click to expand...


It’s beginning to look as if a compromise could be in the works regarding the proposed ordinance to regulate knife possession in Worcester.

While no one is denying that the escalation of knife violence in the city is a very real and serious problem, some city councilors are beginning to wonder if the law they are considering would be overreaching, because it could punish law-abiding citizens for the actions of those who use knives in assaults or other crimes.

Instead of approving a law that would simply make it illegal to carry a knife with a certain blade size, there seems to be a shifting school of thought on the council for tougher laws directed at those who commit crimes with a knife.


The feeling is that knives aren’t the problem behind the spate of knife violence; rather, it’s the people who use them in an unlawful manner.

District 2 Councilor Philip P. Palmieri signaled such a change Thursday night when the council’s Public Safety Committee held a public hearing on the proposed knife ordinance, which was developed by the Police Department, the Worcester district attorney’s office and city officials. The proposal would make it illegal to carry a knife with a blade longer than 1.5 inches, and people caught with such knives in their possession would be fined $300.

Mr. Palmieri said he feels strongly about the violence in the city, but he cautioned his colleagues not to rush in endorsing an ordinance that could end up becoming a mistake if it makes lawbreakers out of law-abiding citizens.

He added there is no statistical evidence that shows that knife violence has decreased in communities that have made it illegal to carry knives of a certain blade length.

“I couldn’t support a law that would make law-abiding citizens feel like they were doing something wrong,” Mr. Palmieri said. “If crimes are being committed with knives, then I would really like to see us implement a law so we can get a lot tougher with those people.”

Another potential compromise making the rounds has been broached by Councilor-at-Large Joseph M. Petty. He said he would support amending the ordinance so it would be illegal to carry a knife with a blade larger than 2.5 inches.

By increasing the size of the blade, it would make it legal for people to carry many utility and Swiss Army knives — they would be illegal under the current 1.5-inch proposal.“We’re heading in a direction we don’t want to go in as a city with all this knife violence,” Mr. Petty said last week. “Something has got to be done. This ordinance is a good start, but I also understand many of the concerns that have been raised by people who carry knives and use them in a legal manner. For that reason, I would support increasing the size of illegal blades to 2.5 inches.”

The tone of the discussion at the Public Safety Committee was a bit different from the week before, when several councilors hailed the proposed ordinance as an important first step in addressing the recent spate of knife attacks.

Councilors-at-Large Michael J. Germain and Gary Rosen did express some concerns when the item initially went before the council, but by and large a majority of councilors seem to enthusiastically embrace it. As a result, it appeared that the ordinance was on track for swift approval when it was referred to the Public Safety Committee for a hearing.

Since then, however, the public has voiced reservations about the ordinance and it has caused councilors to take notice.

Some of those who testified before the Public Safety Committee said they did not believe the ordinance was going to be effective because it was targeting the wrong thing. They argued that, if knives had become a favored instrument in gang violence, then the police should be going after the gangs and not just knives.

The committee was also reminded that many law-abiding people carry a Swiss Army knife or a jackknife around with them because the knives often prove to be effective tools when trying to fix things, such as computers, and even come in handy when out on a picnic to cut up an apple.

“I’m struck that in Worcester, of all places, people should understand the utility of carrying a jackknife,” said Tracy Novick, a city resident. “They are a useful thing to carry in one’s pocket. Carrying a knife like that is not necessarily the same as carrying a weapon.”

Ms. Novick’s husband, Colin, also contends that the ordinance will not deter knife violence in the city and will end up creating a civil liberties quagmire.

“I feel like this is a hysterical exercise in political theater,” Mr. Novick said. “Banning Boy Scout and Swiss Army knives is ridiculous. The real deterrent to this kind of violence is having an increased police presence.”

Others, meanwhile, have questioned why only knives have been singled out by law enforcement officials. They point out that box cutters were weapons of choice of the terrorists who hijacked airplanes and slammed them into the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001.

When he testified before the Public Safety Committee, Larry Anderson, also a city resident, held up his daughter’s hairbrush, which had a sharp, pointed handle.

“This hairbrush is sharper than several knives I’ve seen,” Mr. Anderson said. “And if you ban knives, what’s next? Letter openers, Bic pens and paper clips can be used in a fight and cause serious injury as well.”

Eric Stein, a Bradford resident attending college in the city, also tried to debunk the notion that the size of a knife blade has anything to do with knife-related violence.

“The size of the knife has nothing to do with violence; it’s how it’s used,” Mr. Stein said. “You should be going after those who are using knives in committing crimes.”

District 4 Councilor Barbara G. Haller, chairwoman of the Public Safety Committee, said she does not dispute the seriousness of the knife violence in the city as portrayed by law enforcement officials. But she felt it was appropriate for her committee “to step back and take another look at this” in light of the concerns that have been raised and suggestions that have been made to amend the ordinance.

That could be yet another signal that the ordinance as proposed could very well change.

District Attorney Joseph D. Early Jr. and Police Chief Gary J. Gemme, meanwhile, firmly believe the proposed ordinance is the best way to address all the knife violence. They have emphasized that the ordinance would be targeted primarily at the after-hours bar and nightclub crowds, where there has been an outbreak of knife-related violence, and not at people who carry and use knives legally.

“We realized we were going to make some people angry with this, but its greater goal is the public safety,” Mr. Early said. “This is where we have to start. To do nothing is to fail.”
Click to expand...
 
Coyote33 said:
from Sunday's paper:
Council apparently rethinking scope of knife ordinance
Click to expand...

We realized we were going to make some people angry with this, but its greater goal is the public safety,” Mr. Early said. “This is where we have to start. To do nothing is to fail.”
Click to expand...

F-ing idiot. To do the WRONG thing is to fail. Early's a prime example of the problem with legacy Pol's. Do your f-ing job and get some convictions with some real sentences and then maybe gang violence will decrease.
 
Bob P said:
F-ing idiot. To do the WRONG thing is to fail. Early's a prime example of the problem with legacy Pol's. Do your f-ing job and get some convictions with some real sentences and then maybe gang violence will decrease.
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I left Worcester in 2000, after 22 years in that sad city. Early was an idiot then. It's good to know that some things never change ...
 
So they want to change it from 1.5 to 2.5"?

Every knife I own is still "illegal" then....


Kudos to the guy who seems to have his head on straight, though. That's refreshing to see.
 
I just bought a Buck 119...Would that make me a super criminal? Next I am going to buy the old fashion Buck folding knife. Will that upgrade me to super villian? Arch Nemisis of the WPD? What if I then go to Wal-Mart and buy a machette? Will I be the Ultimate Columbian Super Villian, Arch Nemesis of the WPD and danger to small woodland creatures?
 
hemmm lets see how about throwing the criminal in jail and not letting him out and leaving law abiding citizens rights alone... well thats not "progressive" gemme rather let rapists,murderers,child molesters and the scummy like walk the streets of Worcester like the rest of the politicians and police of this state.
 
Let's not forget that the 2nd Amendment refers to the right to "keep and bear arms," not "keep and bear guns."

A knife ordinance is a violation of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.
 
theGringo said:
I left Worcester in 2000, after 22 years in that sad city. Early was an idiot then. It's good to know that some things never change ...
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Oh it's MUCH worse then that. This is Rep Early's SON. This is Joe Jr. - the NEXT generation of incompetent a-holes!
 
Planned knife rules altered




Monday, December 1, 2008
Planned knife rules altered

Mere possession no longer enough to trigger ordinance

By Nick Kotsopoulos TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
[email protected]

15 comments | Add a comment


WORCESTER— City Manager Michael V. O’Brien has offered changes to an ordinance he has proposed regulating knife possession, in response to concerns that people have raised about it.

The changes would make the ordinance apply only when certain knives are used during a “disturbance of the peace” or when the possession is in conjunction with an arrest on a warrant.

Mr. O’Brien is also recommending that only knives with blades of at least 2.5 inches be governed under the ordinance. He originally proposed making it illegal to carry a knife with a blade longer than 1.5 inches.


In addition, the revised ordinance would not apply to people licensed to carry a firearm.

City Solicitor David M. Moore said the changes were drafted in response to testimony presented to the City Council’s Public Safety Committee Nov. 6, when it held a public hearing on the ordinance, and were drawn up in consultation with District Attorney Joseph D. Early Jr. and Police Chief Gary J. Gemme, two prime movers of the knife ordinance.

The council will consider the changes tomorrow night and is expected to refer the matter to the Public Safety Committee for review.

The ordinance was originally drafted in response to a dramatic increase in knife violence in Worcester during the past couple of years. Chief Gemme said the city is on a pace to have about 140 stabbings for the year.

In comparison, there were 118 stabbings last year and 86 the year before. Chief Gemme said knife use in crimes has also increased.

Both Chief Gemme and Mr. Early said the knife ordinance is one tool that can deal with the problem.

But the city manager’s original ordinance has drawn strong reservations from many people who claimed it would make lawbreakers out of law-abiding citizens.

They contend the ordinance misidentifies the underlying reason behind escalating knife violence in the city and could make carrying a jackknife, a Swiss Army or other utility knife a crime because they would be considered weapons.

The original proposal would have made it illegal to carry a knife with a blade longer than 1.5 inches and carried a $300 fine.

But instead of approving a law that would simply make it illegal to carry a knife with a certain blade size, District 2 Councilor Philip P. Palmieri suggested that tougher laws be directed at those who commit crimes with a knife.

Mr. Palmieri contends there is no statistical evidence that shows knife violence has decreased in communities that have made it illegal to carry knives of a certain blade length.

“If crimes are being committed with knives, then I would really like to see us implement a law so we can get a lot tougher with those people,” he said.

Councilor-at-Large Joseph M. Petty suggested increasing the size of prohibited blades to more than 2.5 inches. That would exempt many kinds of utility and Swiss Army knives, he said.

Several residents have also argued that the original proposal was targeting the wrong thing. They contend that if knives have become a favored instrument in gang violence, then the police should be going after the gangs and not just knives.

Others, meanwhile, have questioned why knives have been singled out by law enforcement officials.

They said box cutters, paper clips, pens and other sharp objects can be just as dangerous.

Given all the concerns that have been raised, District 4 Councilor Barbara G. Haller, chairman of the Public Safety Committee, thought the committee should not rush and gave the city manager an opportunity to offer his amendments.
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Don't forget to check out the comments at the end. I would like to go and just read the words of the Second Amendment to them or something dramatic, but I can't make it tonight. I hope all of you who disagree with this go. You don't have to live in Worcester to attend or to speak. Worcester pretends to like people coming there for trade, tourism, business, etc.; so they take all input (and do what we don't know).



Meanwhile, here's what some other people have been writing about this:
http://worcesteria.wordpress.com/2008/10/30/from-the-print-files-the-sharpest-knives-in-the-drawer/

http://www.realworcester.com/2008/10/28/people-are-talking-2/

http://radioball.net/2008/10/28/worcester-city-councilor-joe-petty-on-knives/

http://www.wormtowntaxi.com/2008/10/more-buffoonery-in-worcester.html
 
The changes would make the ordinance apply only when certain knives are used during a “disturbance of the peace” or when the possession is in conjunction with an arrest on a warrant.
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Aren't there already laws against using knives in crimes? What a bunch of goddamn morons.
 
Ah yes, my fair city.

The Warden and I have been looking to get out for a couple of months now. Problem is we need to sell our house first.

As for the latest generation of old boy politik, I live a block from the Lt. Gov and a couple doors down from the chairman of the Worcester Dem. party. Old Ed Agustus has passed the torch to these clowns I used to play little league with. Even the one gun-friendly politician I know is a crook (Rep. Bob Spellane) and he was so as early as 4th grade at W. Tatnuck.

WPD Vice has been helpful with my problem neighbor. They told me "you definintely gave us the right guy" but the creep is still dealing from his front stoop. This silly knife ordinance is palliative, I guess.
 
 
theGringo said:
I remember reading some years ago that, somewhere in the UK, glass beer mugs were exchanged for plastic, due to a spate of pub violence.

We are following in the same path as the effete nations of Europe.
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I did go to a concert in a UK pub once where they were using plastic glasses, but that was because everyone was throwing beers at the band. It was pretty impressive to see them continuing to sing and play without missing a beat while taking a full pint to the face every few seconds.

Did you see the newspaper report about the guy who was hassled by the UK police for carrying a cricket ball in a mall? He could have massacred hundreds by picking it up after each throw.
 
CMF said:
Did you see the newspaper report about the guy who was hassled by the UK police for carrying a cricket ball in a mall? He could have massacred hundreds by picking it up after each throw.
Click to expand...

Man, they are just going from bad to worse. This system of victim disarmament just ain't working.
 
I'm sick of living in this "ban them all" society, they have banned kids from wearing hoodies in school they have also disarmed them with banning knives and lawfully possessed guns. where does it stop!!!! isn't it enough that todays educators try to control kinds minds!!. i think that every kid should be be able to carry a pocket knife its a tool!!!!.
 

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