MachineHead
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Joined Harvard Sportsmans Club
- Thread starter rwl1955
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If the distance referred to is 1,000 yards, bullet flight time of 6 - 8 seconds works out to a leisurely average velocity of 500 to 375 feet per second. In the Reach for a Thousand class at Sig Academy, flight time for 300 Win. Mag. ran between 1 and 1.5 seconds, so between 2,000 and 3,000 feet per second.
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![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
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Aha, thanks, good one.
nstassel
NES Member
This thread vaguely reminds me of my experience with the new membership guy at Woburn Sportsmen club. I was sending him emails to the account listed for him on the club site and getting frustrated when none of then were returned. When I met him in person he told me with pride that he didn't have a computer.
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"Lastly--and I shouldn't have to point out the obvious, but I will anyway--yes, the technique Ed uses to get unknown shooters to snap-to is exactly the same social/psychological technique used on new recruits upon thier arrival at basic training. It makes pull their heads out of their asses, and it has worked like gangbusters for as long as there have been armies."
*****
I was a Range NCO for Hotel range(M249/M60/M240B) at FT.Devens for the 104INF. and 181INF Mass. Guard for a few years and Uniform range(M16 zero, qual) and can attest to the stupidity displayed by Soldiers, never mind civilians. I would start off as a nice Sergeant when I read the range rules and then go ballistic when the first PVT. did something stupid. Putting a boot in peoples asses works and I understand many civilians recoil when someone gets in their face. When I was in boot camp at FT.Benning my Drill Sergeant told us the story of another Drill Sergeant shot in the head by a dipshit PVT. whose weapon jammed and when the Drill Sergeant bent over to help him clear the jam the kid turned the weapon in his direction and boom. Don't know if it was true but lesson learned. Stay alert, stay alive.
*****
I was a Range NCO for Hotel range(M249/M60/M240B) at FT.Devens for the 104INF. and 181INF Mass. Guard for a few years and Uniform range(M16 zero, qual) and can attest to the stupidity displayed by Soldiers, never mind civilians. I would start off as a nice Sergeant when I read the range rules and then go ballistic when the first PVT. did something stupid. Putting a boot in peoples asses works and I understand many civilians recoil when someone gets in their face. When I was in boot camp at FT.Benning my Drill Sergeant told us the story of another Drill Sergeant shot in the head by a dipshit PVT. whose weapon jammed and when the Drill Sergeant bent over to help him clear the jam the kid turned the weapon in his direction and boom. Don't know if it was true but lesson learned. Stay alert, stay alive.
I understand the psychology as-well, but some of you would be AMAZED that important, factual information can be exchanged, and retained, without drama or theatrics or decibels. I've learned some high-falutin', college-level mathematics (the kind that keep bridges aloft and rockets on-target) from people who barely spoke English. I manage to "own my bullets" whether I'm firing a .30-06 for distance, or my Grandfather's .25 caliber smoothbore Saturday Night Special at seven feet. If a live chamber doesn't stone-sober you, it doesn't matter what, or where, you're shooting IMHO.
I think we've beaten this to death, let's all tip one back and move on.
Asaltweapon
NES Member
Add me to the "give it a break list".
If you don't like the rules or the man then find another club. Of course bitching and complaining is much easier then becoming involved as a board member or chairperson.
The club has a responsibility to be sure all rounds land where they are designed to. If they don't then the club takes the risk of getting closed down or spending needless $$$$$ on legal bills versus spending the $$$$$ making it one of the best clubs around.
If you don't like the rules or the man then find another club. Of course bitching and complaining is much easier then becoming involved as a board member or chairperson.
The club has a responsibility to be sure all rounds land where they are designed to. If they don't then the club takes the risk of getting closed down or spending needless $$$$$ on legal bills versus spending the $$$$$ making it one of the best clubs around.
and the coriolis effect...
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this thread is dillos...
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
FYI. Ed is all bark and no bite. A genuinely nice guy. He does not put up with people who are less than serious about qualifying. He genuinely worries about HSC losing that range due to a missed berm. Telling someone "Downton Harvard is that way" works better than saying " two miles of forest are that way" when it comes to sinking in the liability of a lost round.
I myself have seen someone shooting a MRAD and high end glass shoot over four plus moa at the 200. Should have been drilling the 10 ring but some are not prepared to shoot at any distance beyond 50 yards.
HSC has gone from Very few qualified to use the 200/300 to over 500 iirc under Ed's guidance.
I am no long range pro but the liability of that range due to people who think they can drill the bull at 300 yards without zeroed glass or with a shot out rankenAR with a $90 barrel and iron sights is why we require a qualification. Anyone that goes to a NES car shoot knows what kind of accuracy some are capable of......
I myself have seen someone shooting a MRAD and high end glass shoot over four plus moa at the 200. Should have been drilling the 10 ring but some are not prepared to shoot at any distance beyond 50 yards.
HSC has gone from Very few qualified to use the 200/300 to over 500 iirc under Ed's guidance.
I am no long range pro but the liability of that range due to people who think they can drill the bull at 300 yards without zeroed glass or with a shot out rankenAR with a $90 barrel and iron sights is why we require a qualification. Anyone that goes to a NES car shoot knows what kind of accuracy some are capable of......
A couple of comments on this thread, from someone who is both a long standing member at HSC and a Certified Firearms Instructor:
One: to the OP looking for some help building skills: there are a lot of instructors at HSC. In general, we don't go around with "Instructor" signs on our backs, but if you see someone who looks like he knows what he's doing coaching someone who looks like a relative newbie, most likely on the "Baby Range" (7 yards), that's a clue. I can't speak for everyone, but most of the instructors I know, if you approached them during a lull, would be happy to give you a few minutes with some pointers and advice on skill building drills.
Two: on Ed Sawyer: I'm appalled at the criticism of Ed's bedside manner. Ed spends huge amounts of time and effort supporting the use of the 200/300 range, including the qualification of members to use that range. And in all the years I've observed him in action, he has always treated new shooters with a genuine interest in helping them. To be sure, he's a Marine (do not use the term "former Marine," ever), so don't expect someone who's a candidate for the Welcome Wagon, but some of the comments about Ed in this thread miss the mark by a country mile.
Three: advice for those intending to qualify for 200/300: the entire purpose of the qualification is two-fold: one is to watch the shooter to see if he treats firearms the way they should be treated and the other is to determine that the shooter is an unlikely candidate for sending an errant round into the nether parts of Worcester County. (For the record, spindrift, etc. have no detectible effect at 300 yards; wind can be a factor if it is really blowing and you're shooting something like 55 grain 5.56 slugs, but generally not a big factor; and one question you should be able to answer is, "What is the approximate drop of your rifle when sited for 100 yards and shot at 200 or 300?"
What you want to do before showing up for the 200/300 qualification is fire enough rounds at 100 yards on paper until you can with confidence print a 1-2" group with a scope or a 2-3" group with iron sights. Do that, and know the longer range drop, and you'll find the 200/300 qualification a breeze. You'll also meet some good people.
One: to the OP looking for some help building skills: there are a lot of instructors at HSC. In general, we don't go around with "Instructor" signs on our backs, but if you see someone who looks like he knows what he's doing coaching someone who looks like a relative newbie, most likely on the "Baby Range" (7 yards), that's a clue. I can't speak for everyone, but most of the instructors I know, if you approached them during a lull, would be happy to give you a few minutes with some pointers and advice on skill building drills.
Two: on Ed Sawyer: I'm appalled at the criticism of Ed's bedside manner. Ed spends huge amounts of time and effort supporting the use of the 200/300 range, including the qualification of members to use that range. And in all the years I've observed him in action, he has always treated new shooters with a genuine interest in helping them. To be sure, he's a Marine (do not use the term "former Marine," ever), so don't expect someone who's a candidate for the Welcome Wagon, but some of the comments about Ed in this thread miss the mark by a country mile.
Three: advice for those intending to qualify for 200/300: the entire purpose of the qualification is two-fold: one is to watch the shooter to see if he treats firearms the way they should be treated and the other is to determine that the shooter is an unlikely candidate for sending an errant round into the nether parts of Worcester County. (For the record, spindrift, etc. have no detectible effect at 300 yards; wind can be a factor if it is really blowing and you're shooting something like 55 grain 5.56 slugs, but generally not a big factor; and one question you should be able to answer is, "What is the approximate drop of your rifle when sited for 100 yards and shot at 200 or 300?"
What you want to do before showing up for the 200/300 qualification is fire enough rounds at 100 yards on paper until you can with confidence print a 1-2" group with a scope or a 2-3" group with iron sights. Do that, and know the longer range drop, and you'll find the 200/300 qualification a breeze. You'll also meet some good people.
greencobra
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i wanted to qualify for the 200 yd range but now i'm not too sure. i have no problem with anyone there but jeez, if i got to take a quiz on bullet drop and wind drift and all that good stuff i think i'll stay up front at the "baby" 100 yd range. the thought of being made to look foolish at this stage of my life doesn't appeal to me at all. and that's why i use scopes with bdc reticles, so it does it for me at a glance.
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OK. Sounds like you are comfortable where you are. Rock on.
greencobra
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yeah, not too wild about change anyway.
I qualified at the 200/300 a few years back and had heard the same tails about Ed. They were unfounded as I found him to be a good guy who is passionate about the safety of other shooters and the longevity of the club. If you are into firearms and offended by gruff New Englander's I would recommend something like Zumba or pottery instead.
Qualifying is easy if you have a scoped rifle properly zero'd at the 100. There was guys using irons who were waaaaay off and Ed worked with them to eventually qualify. Pretty sure no one went home without a sticker that day.
The only thing that irks me about the 200/300 is the "no guests" policy. I get the why, but wish there was some way of getting qualified to bring a single guest or something.
Qualifying is easy if you have a scoped rifle properly zero'd at the 100. There was guys using irons who were waaaaay off and Ed worked with them to eventually qualify. Pretty sure no one went home without a sticker that day.
The only thing that irks me about the 200/300 is the "no guests" policy. I get the why, but wish there was some way of getting qualified to bring a single guest or something.
greencobra
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just want to make it clear, have no beef with ed. don't even know him. have no problem with qualifying. done that before elsewhere.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
there is no quiz. You will not be made to look foolish. Come qualify.
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I disagree. I think he should stay right where he is. Otherwise he'd have to learn about bullet drop and all that stuff.
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Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
I interpretted his statement as not wanting to be put on the spot and quizzed, then ridiculed if he gave an incorrect answer. Which does not happen at the qual.
If he is not interested in learning, then I agree you you WG. If he wants to learn, but isn't sure he will spit out the correct answer and get yelled at, I am telling him to show up. He won't get yelled at.
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That is absolutely true. We are there to help people learn. But we won't FORCE anybody to learn anything if they don't want to. That would be Un-American.
The last email I received from HSC, there is a qualification session for 200 / 300 range this Sunday (May 21). I urge any HSC member with an interest and a center fire rifle that is sighted in (zeroed) for 100 yards to go get qualified on the 200 / 300. You will be welcomed. Practicing on the 200 / 300 you will learn things that you will never experience staying at the 100 yard range. You will also be surprised how short the 100 yard range will look when you go back there!
Hello all, I am interested in joining this club but do not have a sponsor. I know that you can come down to public events and meet members but I don't know which events are private and public according to the calendar on their website. If anyone has any info when the next public event is it would be greatly appreciated and hopefully I posted this in the right place.
Mr. Brownstone
NES Member
There is an Appleseed shoot there this coming Saturday. You are bound to meet a member there. https://appleseedinfo.org/schedule/?qstate=MA&state=Massachusetts
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If you can hold 1-2 moa with your rifle at 100, especially if you have a scoped rifle, then you should definitely go for it. Honestly, it's easy, and I say that as encouragement, not to sound like a braggart. It will open up a whole new world of frustrations for you, trying to hold that moa group at 300 
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When I receive my membership and gate card I will head to the 100yd range and zero/shot group. After that I'll attend the qual for the 200/330yd range.
Could someone PM me Ed Sawyer's email address for the qual.
I can't seem to find it. Harvard's website / forum / emailing system has been screwed up for quite awhile. I'm not receiving their monthly newsletter either so the only contact info I have is the BOD.
I'm assuming he wants an email ahead of time. Thanks.
I can't seem to find it. Harvard's website / forum / emailing system has been screwed up for quite awhile. I'm not receiving their monthly newsletter either so the only contact info I have is the BOD.
I'm assuming he wants an email ahead of time. Thanks.
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