Johnson wants to build an AR pistol in communist taxachusettes

[spcantwell]

So the law does not define detachable use state of californias definition..

If they are vague also write the AG and ask for a AGO.

Also link me to your awb ?

Nope, no definition at all. Just the way they like it. If you ask they will tell you that anything that can be removed with a blow touch or a full machine shop counts as removable.... it's all about how much you want to bet on getting into trouble.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[Terminator03]

Well there is another question here then, If I lock the magazine, can it be a preban magazine? Could I lock a 30 round magazine?

My opinion is that you "could" use a 30 rd. preban if it wasn't for that pesky 50oz rule. Personally I would rather just build a SBR which is way more practical because you can have an actual stock on it, and not have to deal with the weight limit issue. Just remember that in order to build an ultralight AR pistol, you will likely spend much more than a tax stamp to get something that is essentially just a range plinker since it has nothing going for it really, since you will have crappy ballistics with a excessive noise and way too much bulk to conceal. Quite honestly the only people that see appeal in a pistol AR are those not wanting to go the tax stamp route.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Alot less hassle in all aspects.
Dont ask permission where you dont have to.

My opinion is that you "could" use a 30 rd. preban if it wasn't for that pesky 50oz rule. Personally I would rather just build a SBR which is way more practical because you can have an actual stock on it, and not have to deal with the weight limit issue. Just remember that in order to build an ultralight AR pistol, you will likely spend much more than a tax stamp to get something that is essentially just a range plinker since it has nothing going for it really, since you will have crappy ballistics with a excessive noise and way too much bulk to conceal. Quite honestly the only people that see appeal in a pistol AR are those not wanting to go the tax stamp route.

 

[soam]

Your initial post is missing part of the definition of an AW for pistols

a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip,
or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits
the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;

As others have mentioned, a weight of 50 ounces or more counts as an evil feature, and since an AR will always have feature (i) (magazine attaches outside pistol grip), you can't have any of the other features if you want it to not be an AW. Getting the weight under 50 ounces is going to be difficult, but if you're determined enough it could possibly be done.

As Terminator has brought up, the AWB kind of negates half the point of an AR pistol, which is to have something quick and easy to put together that has a short barrel but doesn't require registration as a short-barreled rifle. You really are better off just going the SBR route if you want a short and handy AR. You'll wind up with something that isn't hacked to pieces, can actually be fired somewhat accurately, and is still just as loud and flashy.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

So that is the mass AWB or the sunseted 1994 AWB ?

Is a serial # required via the AWB you posted ?
"ability to accept a detachable magazine"

I see no issue here as if a mag is locked in the magwell how can it accept a detachable mag ?

Your initial post is missing part of the definition of an AW for pistols



As others have mentioned, a weight of 50 ounces or more counts as an evil feature, and since an AR will always have feature (i) (magazine attaches outside pistol grip), you can't have any of the other features if you want it to not be an AW. Getting the weight under 50 ounces is going to be difficult, but if you're determined enough it could possibly be done.

As Terminator has brought up, the AWB kind of negates half the point of an AR pistol, which is to have something quick and easy to put together that has a short barrel but doesn't require registration as a short-barreled rifle. You really are better off just going the SBR route if you want a short and handy AR. You'll wind up with something that isn't hacked to pieces, can actually be fired somewhat accurately, and is still just as loud and flashy.

 

[LoginName]

Probably cool factor/novelty firearm, no more no less. We all have crazy ideas about building stuff even if it makes no sense, it's just fun.

Coolness/novelty factor aside, if anyone really does want to build/buy/own an AR or AK style pistol, they might want to
consider it sooner rather than later.

The BATF might have backed off the M855/S109 crap for now, but failing in that, there's still a very good chance there will
be a move to legislatively reclassify "assault pistols" as NFA firearms.

Even if it never happens, just the mere mention of it will set off a panic buying spree on currently manufactured ones and
the parts needed to build one.

 

[soam]

So that is the mass AWB or the sunseted 1994 AWB ?

Is a serial # required via the AWB you posted ?

The MA AWB is a carbon copy of the sunsetted 1994 AWB, but without the sunset date.

The AWB doesn't mention serial numbers. I am not aware of any provisions in MA law that require serializing a homemade firearm, but I haven't researched that subject thoroughly.

 

[Johnson]

To build an SBR AR in MA I would just have to register my current lower as an SBR and I'd be fine. I'm not 100% on what form to fill for the stamp and where does it disconnect or does it even disconnect? To what I currently understand even though its an NFA item, it still has to be state legal. Could I buy a preban AR lower, register that as an SBR and then have all the evil assault features? I believe that's not the question for this thread but that's what is on my mind every time we mention "sbr". Personally I was envisioning turning a crazy little 9mm AR pistol into an AOW at best.

 

[Terminator03]

Alot less hassle in all aspects.
Dont ask permission where you dont have to.

I don't know where you live, but here in MA it has to be "registered" in order to be legal anyway, so the "asking permission" part is irrelevant here, even though I would generally agree with your sentiments.

 

[Terminator03]

To build an SBR AR in MA I would just have to register my current lower as an SBR and I'd be fine. I'm not 100% on what form to fill for the stamp and where does it disconnect or does it even disconnect? To what I currently understand even though its an NFA item, it still has to be state legal. Could I buy a preban AR lower, register that as an SBR and then have all the evil assault features? I believe that's not the question for this thread but that's what is on my mind every time we mention "sbr". Personally I was envisioning turning a crazy little 9mm AR pistol into an AOW at best.

Technically, you would have to build the SBR on a preban lower to be 100% legal with regard to evil features, however there has been quite a lot of debate in other discussions about this. Some feel that once you build a legit NFA firearm that it is in a different category altogether making the normally banned features irrelevant. It comes down to your personal risk tolerance with that. Personally I would have zero concern about it if I had a federally registered firearm.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

So anything you build via the right to build a 80% ar or any other kind of firearm must be registered ?
And the next logical step after registration ?

Well there is one state I will never live on!

I don't know where you live, but here in MA it has to be "registered" in order to be legal anyway, so the "asking permission" part is irrelevant here, even though I would generally agree with your sentiments.

 

[Fixxah]

Johnson should stick to outboards.

Skulen iz besd lefd tu teechuz.

 

[wiryone1]

Johnson should stick to outboards.

Skulen iz besd lefd tu teechuz.

If you weld your Johnson on the 50lb rule does not apply and you can have a detachable gas line.

In all seriousness, go the SBR route Johnson.... Or move.

 

[browncoat]

Probably because an AR is large cap, whether a pistol or a rifle, and you can't have that with an FID.

The ATF won't allow FFL to transfer "other" things to those younger than 21. It's not an MA thing, its an ATF sucks thing.

 

[atilla]

johnson learned a hard lesson ITT.

 

[Johnson]

I didn't learn anything and I think this was taken way out of context by a few of you. I wanted to discuss the legality or talk about how it could be make. I know the laws, I'm from New York originally. We had the same AWB + the SAFE act which made me feel very safe. (pff, horse shit)


I really just wanted to see what we could come up with.

 

[atilla]

AR pistols are overrated. do a trust and a SBR, or grovel to your CLEO to see if he'll sign off on a form 1.

whether a title II firearm is a rifle or not by definition under MA law is debatable. i've typed out the points enough times where i don't want to do it anymore. that information is out there, there's also no case law YMMV.

the biggest hurdle is the weight requirement for the pistol, that's usually what slows people down and/or stops them in their tracks. so if... IF... you end up with a functional firearm it's going to be some useless POS like this:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/...build_under_50oz_per_new_jerseystan_laws.html

also my post was a dick joke. i do that a lot.

 

[PATRON]

PATRON thinks that Johnson will soon be on the news,Patron thinks Johnson should buy himself some soap on a rope for his new address.

 

[xtry51]

If you can make it under 50 ounces and not violate any of the AWB prohibitions, then you are legal.

I don't see the attraction of a 9mm AR with a 4" barrel. What's the advantage over, say, a Glock 19?

And the 80% receiver doesn't add any benefit over a 100% receiver that was never built as a rifle. The advantage of an 80% receiver only comes in if you don't plan on filing an FA-10, at which point you may as well just build a regular AR pistol and not tell anybody about it.

Not that I recommend that route.

Sight radius, better hand position (more stabil) and the ability to shoulder it (even a buffer tube can be shouldered). This makes the gun far more accurate than a normal pistol will ever be.

As others stated the weight will be the limiting factor on any pistol build. It can be done, but it's not easy and will likely require a lot of custom work.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Has no one considered a carbon 15 as a base to keep the thing light ?

 

[dcmdon]

And the 80% receiver doesn't add any benefit over a 100% receiver that was never built as a rifle. The advantage of an 80% receiver only comes in if you don't plan on filing an FA-10, at which point you may as well just build a regular AR pistol and not tell anybody about it.

Not that I recommend that route.

An 80% receiver could give you plausible deniability if you represented it as a preban item. Of course, it would have to have been purchased with absolutely no trail. i.e. at a gun show you attended, and didn't use EZ-Pass and left your cell phone (turned on) at home, and paid cash.

Then if anyone tried to accuse you of possessing an AW, they would have to prove that you did not possess it prior to the AWB in 1994. Of course if you weren't 18 in 1994, it presents another problem.

This is only an intellectual exercise. I'd never advise anyone to do this, primarily because AR pistols are stupid. If you want a compact AR, buy the $200 stamp, build a SBR and be done with it.

Don

p.s. Here's mine. Built on a pre-ban lower.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

While you have every right to your opinion...

A ar pistol gives the power of a sbr without the stamp and its not just the $200.00 that someone may be thinking about but the fact that a nfa weapon opens anyone that holds it to another level of being messed with by not only law enforcement and batfe but storage responsibilities as well.

An 80% receiver could give you plausible deniability if you represented it as a preban item. Of course, it would have to have been purchased with absolutely no trail. i.e. at a gun show you attended, and didn't use EZ-Pass and left your cell phone (turned on) at home, and paid cash.

Then if anyone tried to accuse you of possessing an AW, they would have to prove that you did not possess it prior to the AWB in 1994. Of course if you weren't 18 in 1994, it presents another problem.

This is only an intellectual exercise. I'd never advise anyone to do this, primarily because AR pistols are stupid. If you want a compact AR, buy the $200 stamp, build a SBR and be done with it.

Don

p.s. Here's mine. Built on a pre-ban lower.

 

[dcmdon]

You don't need a pistol designated lower. If your transferring FFL knows what they are doing, they write up an AR15 lower as 'other' on the 4473, and it can be either a pistol or a rifle (in most states, anyway).

And I can respect building something just because you want to.

This is wrong. Per the ATF. Once something is transferred as a rifle, it can never be a pistol. And if it is a pistol, it can be made into a rifle and then back to a pistol.

(Yes its true).

So you can't take a used Ar lower thats previously been transferred as a rifle and build it into a pistol. At least not legally. Although I doubt anyone would ever be arrested and prosecuted for this.

 

[ScottS]

While you have every right to your opinion...

A ar pistol gives the power of a sbr without the stamp and its not just the $200.00 that someone may be thinking about but the fact that a nfa weapon opens anyone that holds it to another level of being messed with by not only law enforcement and batfe but storage responsibilities as well.

A common misconception, but a misconception nonetheless.

NFA weapons don't expose one to "being messed with" by anyone, including the LE or ATF. You lose no rights by owning NFA weapons.

 

[dcmdon]

While you have every right to your opinion...

A ar pistol gives the power of a sbr without the stamp and its not just the $200.00 that someone may be thinking about but the fact that a nfa weapon opens anyone that holds it to another level of being messed with by not only law enforcement and batfe but storage responsibilities as well.

I don't consider a 55 grain bullet traveling at 1900 fps to be "power".

Are you familiar with the form 1 process? How does it open you up for "being messed with"

What are the additional storage responsibilities? (psst, there aren't any)

The only additional burden is the need to file a 5320 if you want to move a SBR across state lines.

Don

p.s. one last thing that's strictly personal. I find an AR pistol to be very ungainly. Especially with the buffer tube sticking out the back. You might as well put a stock on the damn thing.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

From about 1985 to 2000 I was a 03sot and 01 ffl ao yes I know the forms and procedures..

My transfers on form 3 took about 3 weeks up to 2 months depending on what employee at nfa branch handeled it.

I speak of personal experience and just from being in the business wouldnt want another title II weapon...if your into it go for it its just my personal preference to not own any more title II weapons...

I don't consider a 55 grain bullet traveling at 1900 fps to be "power".

Are you familiar with the form 1 process? How does it open you up for "being messed with"

What are the additional storage responsibilities? (psst, there aren't any)

The only additional burden is the need to file a 5320 if you want to move a SBR across state lines.

Don

p.s. one last thing that's strictly personal. I find an AR pistol to be very ungainly. Especially with the buffer tube sticking out the back. You might as well put a stock on the damn thing.

 

[Darksideblues42]

My question always comes back to part v

(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm

Technically, are all Beretta 92FS models Semi-auto versions of a automatic firearm (the 93R)? Or is it a case of the 93R being an automatic version of the semi-auto 92FS? Seems to be a slippery slope.

 

[rkwjunior]

My question always comes back to part v



Technically, are all Beretta 92FS models Semi-auto versions of a automatic firearm (the 93R)? Or is it a case of the 93R being an automatic version of the semi-auto 92FS? Seems to be a slippery slope.

Wikipedia says the 93r was derived from the 92 pistol.

The*Beretta 93R*is a*selective fire*machine pistol, designed and manufactured by Italian*firearms*manufacturer*Beretta*in the 1970s for police and military use, that is derived from their semi-automatic*Beretta 92. The "R" stands for*Raffica, which is Italian for "volley", "flurry", or "burst".

 

[Queen Bee]

I would make a AK pistol i would in a heartbeat.. but dont know any ideas other than to weld on the 30rd mag...

I dont know of a company that makes non removeable via allen or star screwed in magwell...?

 

[Da_lucche]

Personally, I think Johnson needs to do a bit more research before Johnson sets out to turning this into a legal cluster****.

Johnson needs to hang around the forums for a bit longer, soak up all the info here before setting off on Johnson's gun build adventure.