-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
James Yeager may have ALS
- Thread starter moojpg2
- Start date
Grendizer138
NES Member
Since I think that’s an agreeable comment, I’ll leave it there.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,555
- Likes
- 33,621
No, it only means you are very skilled at a high level. But it is a "differentiator" that sets one apart from the crowd.
I have seen that championship level performances can get one an "in" into training circles that are generally closed to outsiders without Law/Mil experience. Instructors generally need a differentiator to break into the segment of the market where people spend hundreds of $ per day and travel significant distances to take classes. That differentiator tends to be military or championship level experience. Or both (Max Michel comes to mind).
Examples of those who made inroads by demonstrating excellent shooting skills include Michael Voigt (RIP) who had active military instruction contracts and Jerry Barnhart (who has been out of the competitive circuit for many years, but the reputation he built as a champion shooter helped establish credibility - no idea if he is a vet though) and Ben Stoeger. To the best of my knowledge none of these people ever carried a gun for a living (except perhaps at a firing range).
ps: USPSA does not award medals.
Last edited:
Ken Hackenthorn, never been in military nor police. Qualified to teach?
Massad Ayoob, never been in military. Reserve police officer who I believe never shot anyone (not sure). Qualified to teach?One of the most well known instructors in the country (who I will not disparage by naming him) spent 30 years as police officer and was in 5 gun fights. Qualified to teach? Never hit the suspect in those five gunfights. Still qualified to teach?
I have taken lots of classes. The two worst instructors were ex military who saw action.
What qualifies an instructor to teach??????
Yeager's TRAINING HISTORY:
- TN P.O.S.T. Certified to Instruct Firearms #00041S - Retired
- TN P.O.S.T. Certified to Instruct Less Lethal Munitions #00040S - Retired
- TN P.O.S.T. Certified to Instruct Chemical Weapons #00042S - Retired
- TN P.O.S.T. Certified to Instruct Expandable Baton #00043S - Retired
- TN P.O.S.T. Certified Police Officer and K-9 handler #97276 - Retired
- Louisiana State Police Firearms Instructor Number #0259
- F.B.I. Certified Firearms Instructor - Top Graduate Award
- TN Department of Safety Certified Firearms Instructor (Formerly)
- FAA Certified to instruct Law Enforcement “Flying Armed” courses
- A.L.S. Master Instructor (Less Lethal, Flash-bangs, Chemical Weapons)
- Expandable Baton Instructor – Monadanock
- Bushmaster Certified Patrol Rifle/Carbine Instructor (Blackwater)
- Aerosol O.C. Instructor – Fox Labs International
- Armor Holding - Gas Mask Instructor
- Armor Holdings - Pyrotechnic Munitions Instructor
- Armor Holdings - Distraction Device Instructor
- Armor Holdings – Chemical Weapons Instructor
- Armor Holdings- Less Lethal Munitions Instructor
- NRA Certified Handgun Instructor #11973397
- NRA Personal Protection Instructor #11973397
- NRA Law Enforcement Patrol Rifle Instructor 44hrs
- Tom Givens Handgun Instructor Development
- OPS - Knife Defense Instructor
- OPS - Advanced Low Light Shooting Instructor Course 40 hour
- OPS - Advanced Tactical Handgun Instructor Course 40 hour
- OPS - Handgun Instructor Course 40 hour
- OPS - Patrol Rifle Instructor Course 40 hour
- OPS - Shotgun Instructor Course 40 hour
- John Farnam Advanced Tactical Handgun Instructor Course 20 hour
- John Farnam Advanced Rifle and Shotgun Instructor Course 24 hour
- Active Shooter Instructor Course / TTPPA 24 hrs
- 28 Hour Carbine Instructor / Jim Crews
- Over 200 hours of Diplomatic Security Service training for Executive Protection from Tony Diebler
- Scientific Combat Method 20 hour
- S.D.S.I. Tactical Rifle Course 16 hours
- Black Water Lodge 32 hour Police and Military Shotgun Course
- Completed various 40 hour Officer Survival schools
- Attended Snipercraft 40 hour
- Jim Crews - Tactical Handgun 20 hour
- Jeff Gonzalez/Gabe Suarez - Advanced Tactical Handgun 18 hour
- Tom Givens - High Risk Personnel 16 hour
- Tom Givens - Crisis Response Team Training 80 hour
- S.W.A.T. Chief Tom Long - 40 hour
- D.E.A.- Clandestine Lab Investigations 40 hour
- Criminal Investigation School 40 hour
- Patrol Interdiction School 40 hour
- Basic SWAT - 40 hour Jackson TN SWAT
- Military Counter Drug SRT course 48 Hour
- SWAT by Smyrna S.T.O.R.M. Team 40 hour
- 40 Hr Police Sniper School
- 40 Hour F.B.I. SWAT course Memphis TN
- TASER User Certification Course
- 5 day Strategos Spec-Ops Low-Light Team Tactics 50+ Hours
- Personal Security Driving Course from Armor Group (I.T.I. in VA)
- Pat Rogers / E.A.G. Tactical 3-Day Carbine Operators Course
- Calibre Press Street Survival Seminar 16 hours
- Glock Professional 2.5 day Instructor Workshop
- Rogers Shooting School 44 hours - Pistol (Int.) Carbine (Adv.)
- Surefire Tactical Technology Specialist Course
- Larry Vickers’ AK Operator Course 16 hours
- Massad Ayoob 20 hour Legal Use of Force “Rules of Engagement”
- “Super Dave” Harrington 24-Hour “Combat Speed” course
- Ken Hackathorn’s “Advanced Pistol” 18 hours
- Thunder Ranch H.A.R.T. (High Angle Rifle Training) 32hrs
- “Adaptive Kalash” - Haley Strategic with Travis Haley
- “Adaptive Handgun” - Haley Strategic with Travis Haley
- “Adaptive Carbine” Haley Strategic with Travis Haley
- Combat Focus Pistol - I.C.E Training with Rob Pincus
- Advanced Pistol Handling - I.C.E Training with Rob Pincus
- Combat Focus Carbine - I.C.E Training with Rob Pincus
- ATK/Federal Ammunition – Force on Force Instructor
- Combative Pistol – Tom Givens of Rangemaster
- Armorer - Remington 870
- Armorer - Remington 700
- Armorer - Bushmaster AR-15
- Glock Basic and Advanced Armorer
- "Super Dave" Harrington "Integrated Weapons"
- Gunsite Scout Rifle Class
- HRCC "Direct Action"
- Costa Ludus Carbine Elements 1
- Costa Ludus Carbine Elements 2
- Certified Affiliate Instructor for John Farnam Defense Training International
- Thunder Ranch Combat Shotgun
- Pat MacNamara T.A.P.S.
- Super Dave Harrington 4 Day Instructor Course
- Thunder Ranch Instructor Development
- Pat MacNamarra Sentinel
- Greenline Tactical - Nightfighter (Night Vision Operator)
- Greenline Tactical - DMR/SPR
- Gunsite 250 (Marksman 1 with Cabot 1911) Sept 2019
- “The Perfect Storm” w/ Rob Leatham and Clint Smith
- Urban Rifle (Instructor) w/ John Farnam
- Red Dot Instructor w/Modern Samurai Project
- Low Light Handgun - Sentinel Concepts
- Gunsite 250 (Marksman 1 w/Canik Rival) Jan 2022
Last edited:
Which is why many Special Forces guys compete in USPSA?
Artifact
NES Member
Well sure you can go from that to that. I have done just about any military comp available to me, it would be naive of me not to branch on other venues civilian or otherwise. Learning and practice never stops.
RL and Paper Targets don’t compare
1. Ninja Master Of Cardboard: Sexy sponsored colorful shirts, shoes, sunglasses, Gucci gear, targets don’t shoot back. Worst case scenario feelings get hurt.
2. DR: No Gucci, f***ing sucks, hot/cold or in between. Stress, lots of stress. Everything wants to kill you. No sleep or delivered lattes. Gear, tons of heavy gear on you all the time…..I can go on and on…….most important “ you don’t f***ing respawn if you f*** up”
Both have their places and stand on their own.
Last edited:
Top USPSA shooters can shoot very quickly and very accurately while under some stress (no, I’m not saying that it is the same stress as combat). I suspect that being able to shoot accurately and quickly, to manipulate your gun without thinking about it, is a valuable skill to have in combat. No, it’s not the same as combat, but it beats a square range and static targets.
If the military didn’t think shooters like Ben Stoeger had something to teach them, then they wouldn’t be hiring them.
Artifact
NES Member
A skill can be learned. However, it takes longer and is harder to teach a person resilience, managing mental/physical stress, being physically fit and able to make sounds decisions on the fly under extreme stress, hunger and weather conditions. It takes time, lots of money and a certain kind of people.
Anyone with some training regardless of waist size can punch paper Gucci style.
xtry51
NES Member
The US would be a better place if we had 100 more JY's training people.
Dude spent his life dedicated to growing shooting, self reliance and teaching people to stand up for themselves and speak your mind.
Any man like that should be celebrated. We need more men like him, not less.
Dude spent his life dedicated to growing shooting, self reliance and teaching people to stand up for themselves and speak your mind.
Any man like that should be celebrated. We need more men like him, not less.
I’m not claiming that being a USPSA grandmaster makes someone a special operator, Taran Butler would likely die of a heart attack trying to hump a 90 lb pack 20 miles.
All I’m saying is that in a defensive shooting, being able to shoot quickly and accurately while under some stress is a good thing to have. Would it be better to also be a combat vet? Sure. But that’s not an option for most.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
- Messages
- 47,555
- Likes
- 33,621
A combat vet (Afghanistan, Purple heart, Bronze star) told me he felt more stress waiting to shoot a stage at a match than when engaging the Taliban.
Pretty much. The stress of an engagement or anticipation of an engagement can cause anxiety and definitely causes an adrenaline dump. It can easily cause you to forget some fundamentals of marksmanship at first, much like when you first get into a new type of shooting competition. But I would say it is actually exaggerated in timed competitions due to the stress of time constraint, which isn’t nearly as present in most combat engagements.
Now, that time-induced stress may be present in self defense shootings that are up close and personal. But for those, how often are you reloading at slide lock in the thick of still dealing with a threat?
Grendizer138
NES Member
What qualifies someone to be a firearms instructor?
Not sure why I’m still debating this. You don’t care about my opinion and I don’t care about yours.
Both verified and validated expertise in firearms handling and whatever subset of instruction they’re giving, coupled with a general ability to teach. There are lots of people who are qualified to be firearms instructors, including him.
But he didn’t have verified and validated expertise in gunfighting.
Also, I do care about your opinion. But you’re making some outlandish statements and disregarding others.
Grendizer138
NES Member
Fair answer, but are you saying that real world experience is the only way to develop expertise? Again, I go back to the importance of curriculum. When you train at Sig you may get an x-cop for an instructor, you may get a military guy, you may get someone who’s just developed a high level of proficiency via training. They are all teaching the same ciriculum and the only thing that separates them is their ability to communicate.
The best instructors I’ve had (including at Sig) were great communicators. I’ve had bad and good military instructors and bad and good cop instructors.
Regarding qualifications, competitive shooters may be able to teach me faster target acquisition, but what the f*** do they know about cover vs concealment, or TQ application? A Marine can teach those things but what can they tell me about how to handle 911 calls, or the legal and emotional battle post-gunfight?
You may be surprised to know that a good bulk of the Tactical Response Fighting Pistol class is mindset lecture.
You can choose to consider Yeager qualified or unqualified, it doesn’t much matter now. But it gets tiring to hear various opinions from people that have never trained or can’t tell the difference between shooting and training.
Outlandish? I was holding back!
I'm not surprised that the same issues inherent to martial arts training and competition, versus reality, get replicated in firearms training and competition. Nothing is ever perfect. The kind of thing that earns you the real cred carries along with it a very real possibility of not surviving the "training".
Similar threads
