Hey listen the 2 laws that seem to piss me off the most are any law restricting our 2nd amendment rights and the effing seatbelt law. I thought I was an adult and they're telling me that I have to wear one like I am not able to make up my own mind. sorry for the rant.
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Is it possible for my buddy to get his ltc licence back
- Thread starter illu51ons
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Not a problem I do like a good argument. I should have worded it better so that is my bad.
yeah, you should have. this also isn't something you argue about because quite frankly it's not up for debate. you get it or you don't.
the laws exist not to GRANT us rights, but the strip us of the rights that the creator, god, whatever you believe in bestowed upon us from birth in this country.
From birth period.
Just most other governments deny these rights of their citizens.
Sent from my mobile device, please excuse typos and brevity.
Had a friend of mine do exactly the same thing , chief of police called him in to the office and chewed him out big time but he didn't revoke his LTC. So basically it depends on the Chief of Police and one never knows what they will do . I hope your friend has good luck and wont leave any weapons lying around next time.
Blitzy nailed it many posts ago. "Rick" didn't get it. He may still not get it but as soon as he started to defend what he posted, especially in the manner he chose to defend his posts, I could only hope that he finally did get it but his ego wouldn't let him publicly admit it. This is commonplace behavior every day in every walk of life.
I have to tip my hat to many of you who showed levels of patience I have long since forgot (cranky old fart thing...). Many posts in this thread were truly inspiring. I'm glad I took the time to read it all. It gives me hope...
I have to tip my hat to many of you who showed levels of patience I have long since forgot (cranky old fart thing...). Many posts in this thread were truly inspiring. I'm glad I took the time to read it all. It gives me hope...
So a big problem I have with the NRA training material is that its basically presented that the 2A is the king granting us some "right" to have guns. Its so bad.
I have this fixed in my classes, but I can only imagine how many folks never think of it before the class and then the nra telling them that the govt is giving them this privilage. That may be the perspective that we are forever trying to correct. Even legal scholars and our judicial systems treat this as something granted by the constitution, not as an inherint right, that the BOR protects. This wrong thinking is pervasive. And its our job to correct it every time we encounter it.
Sent from my mobile device, please excuse typos and brevity.
i catch shit for it--but it's reasons like this why i do not support the NRA. i will give them money when they change this kind of stuff and when they will help out stuff like constitutional carry in NH and us behind enemy lines back in MA.
i will find better places to donate my money, comm2A, GOAL, SAF, etc.
flintoid
Banned
this post is golden because it is true.
When someone doesn't "get it" it is extremely important to hand feed them knowledge in a way that is not offensive. This person is on this forum because of similar interests, which is the first step. The second step is polite education where he/she can be informed as to why he/she can own firearms in our country. And why laws restricting those natural rights are violations of our birth rights as people.
Polite education. It is crucial to winning this battle.
And yes, I agree- admitting that you are wrong publicly is very difficult to do. I couldn't do it for years until I realized that my pride should not be measured off of public perception but instead personal gauging. It's a tough one to do. But I hope Rick understood even through that blinding rage.
I just have to say those of you that have stuck with this thread and tried to get some light to dawn on the marble heads deserve a lot of credit. Unfortunately some people will just never get it.
Agreed.. I wish they wouldn't do that stupid shit either.
I find its a lot easier to do in person. In writing, I am often abrupt and that isn't necessarily most effective. My wife hates my word economy, and I find it easier to be a bit more gradual in live conversation.
The key here is really the concept of self ownership and property rights. If you can get them to the point where they agree on those two things, the rest is logical steps away.
The Constitution would actually be weaker without state sovereignty, you know that don't you? If we didn't have soveriegn states, the people take their orders from the federal government. What are you talking about ?
. THINK . OF . THE . CHILDREN .
the judge said i need to stop doing that. [sad2]
I'll add that in a sane world, the law and its enforcement mechanisms would recognize those inherent, natural rights and protect them via force of law, but in this country for the past 100 or so years that's mostly been the equivalent of a pipe dream, with a few handfuls of exceptions here and there.
-Mike
George D
NES Member
Post of the year!
Instead of trying to "out" people and dogpile on them, how about trying to present a unified front through discussion? These threads always turn into a bashing session with people seeing who can be more pro-freedom than the next guy.
The problem is that, at the core, there is often a fundamental worldview problem with status quo advocates. They see "government as a source of good" and that sort of thing, rather than viewing it as, even on its best day, a "necessary evil that must be controlled in size and scope". The pro authoritarian, pro nanny-state arguments/mindsets are often very hard to decontaminate, even despite the fact that evidence of out of control government resulting from such policy is everywhere.
It falls outside their comfort zone to get rid of, or at a minimum, not support malum prohibitum laws and the like. They think things like "Well, it must have been important if they went through all that trouble to make it a lawr! " without realizing that's not usually the case. They also never, or rarely bother to consider the unintentional consequences of such laws.
It's hard to get people from Tyranny to Freedom while sugarcoating things in the process. Part of it is because at some level or another, depending on where you came from you will have to admit to yourself that you were wrong. People don't like being wrong, particularly on the internet.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
-Mike
George D
NES Member
Well, I will just come right out and say it. My views on gun laws were very different when I was younger, I probably would have been "outed" had NES been around 10 years ago.
After hanging around with pro 2a people and seeing the erosion of rights and the absolute insanity of gun control, my views slowly changed.
After hanging around with pro 2a people and seeing the erosion of rights and the absolute insanity of gun control, my views slowly changed.
I'll be 110% honest. Growing up many years ago, before I owned a gun I had a rather dismissive attitude about these kinds of things. I just figured "oh they've already banned pretty much everything already, what difference does it make". I wasn't really an anti, per se, I just didn't care. Then I went through the hoops to get my LTC. In the process of that and much research afterwards, I started reading about all kinds of heinous shit that has happened to gun owners, and that gave me a whole new perspective on rights and so forth. It was a pretty eye opening experience.
-Mike
Arguing on the internet accomplishes a lot.
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
It wasn't my intent to start a dog pile on anyone, several people here explained the situation concisely and eloquently, many times, yet he rejected those opinions repeatedly.
The guy in the op made a mistake, granted it was stupid and irresponsible. Does that gives the state the authority to deny him a basic right? I don't think so.
I hear what you and Flintoid are saying though.
Face time is better than internet time if you want to bring somebody around.
Another thing I just thought of-
I think a big part of the problem with law polishers is they don't understand how a poorly written law can fail the average citizen.
I'll give you a fun example WRT "unsafe storage" Say you got into a really bad car accident (let's say jaws of life type bad) and the gun goes flying out of your holster in the car, and gets lodged under a seat. You are knocked unconcious and hauled off by the meat wagon. If the LEO inventorying the car's contents wants to be a real douchebag he could easily write the gun owner up on an unsafe storage and transport charge, and there's nothing in the law allowing for "exceptions". So all you "rule of law is absolute all the time" types better hope that an exigent circumstance doesn't bite you in the ass one of these days. You'd better hope you don't have a medical emergency while cleaning your guns, or that your house doesn't catch on fire, or some other issue that inadvertently causes you to break MGL. The only thing that will ever protect you in those cases is if the LEOs involved aren't a**h***s. While I certainly like the fact that a lot of LEOs aren't a**h***s, I'd rather not have to bet my freedom or my guns on that, as a matter of course.
Think about the myriad of ways most MA gun laws can ruin the average citizen's life, and you suddenly will no longer be supporting them anymore.
-Mike
I think a big part of the problem with law polishers is they don't understand how a poorly written law can fail the average citizen.
I'll give you a fun example WRT "unsafe storage" Say you got into a really bad car accident (let's say jaws of life type bad) and the gun goes flying out of your holster in the car, and gets lodged under a seat. You are knocked unconcious and hauled off by the meat wagon. If the LEO inventorying the car's contents wants to be a real douchebag he could easily write the gun owner up on an unsafe storage and transport charge, and there's nothing in the law allowing for "exceptions". So all you "rule of law is absolute all the time" types better hope that an exigent circumstance doesn't bite you in the ass one of these days. You'd better hope you don't have a medical emergency while cleaning your guns, or that your house doesn't catch on fire, or some other issue that inadvertently causes you to break MGL. The only thing that will ever protect you in those cases is if the LEOs involved aren't a**h***s. While I certainly like the fact that a lot of LEOs aren't a**h***s, I'd rather not have to bet my freedom or my guns on that, as a matter of course.
Think about the myriad of ways most MA gun laws can ruin the average citizen's life, and you suddenly will no longer be supporting them anymore.
-Mike
Amen on that Mike.
Some people don't realize how these things come back and bite regular law abiding citizens in the ass.
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