Is it possible for my buddy to get his ltc licence back

[Blitz1]

Let's give Rick a little room here to explain himself, again.

I was enlightened when I first came here. I had no idea of how ****ed up things were.

We have to remember that we were all new folks a some point.

On a side note...
What is the most common letter above? ^

 

[Rick8325]

What's there to explain? I feel he shouldn't get it back because he makes all LTC holders look bad and it's just another reason to add more laws and make gun ownership more stricter. Even the guy that had 40 guns stolen...it's very unfortunate but it looks bad as a whole. I also feel that drunk driver's should not be able to drive again especially on the 1st offence. I'm sure everyone here that goes out for a drink after work should have a problem with that too right? Keep in mind the op's friend got his constitutional rights taken away for one offense and drunk driver's are still allowed to drive and driving is only a privilege. Yeah that is not right but that's the way it is. It's called living in Mass and if you live in Mass you know the gun laws are strict.

Fact is, he left it in plain view, it was loaded so it should have been on his person or under his direct control right? Original poster said his friend just moved to a green town, so was his friend's license even un-restricted when this happened? We still don't even know the whole story here and everyone is jumping to conclusions. Maybe there was more to this. Maybe the cop was patrolling around a school...who knows?

As for the finger pointing and blaming someone to be part of the problem....the same can be said about each and every citizen of Mass, gun owner or not, that pays taxes is supporting the politicians that vote for our messed up gun laws.

We live in a society that wants to make driving on the cell phone illegal because a family of 6 died in an accident where the driver was on the phone. That is an example of how 1 incident can change everything in a heartbeat and this can just be one more of already too many that we have to fight getting back in the firearms rights world. If the town the OP's friend lives in was not a green town, do you think this incident helps other people getting unrestricted LTC's in the future? How about we gang up and be mad over that instead of the punishment one guy got for breaking the law.

 

[Blitz1]

What's there to explain? I feel he shouldn't get it back because he makes all LTC holders look bad and it's just another reason to add more laws and make gun ownership more stricter. Even the guy that had 40 guns stolen...it's very unfortunate but it looks bad as a whole. I also feel that drunk driver's should not be able to drive again especially on the 1st offence. I'm sure everyone here that goes out for a drink after work should have a problem with that too right? Keep in mind the op's friend got his constitutional rights taken away for one offense and drunk driver's are still allowed to drive and driving is only a privilege. Yeah that is not right but that's the way it is. It's called living in Mass and if you live in Mass you know the gun laws are strict.

Fact is, he left it in plain view, it was loaded so it should have been on his person or under his direct control right? Original poster said his friend just moved to a green town, so was his friend's license even un-restricted when this happened? We still don't even know the whole story here and everyone is jumping to conclusions. Maybe there was more to this. Maybe the cop was patrolling around a school...who knows?

As for the finger pointing and blaming someone to be part of the problem....the same can be said about each and every citizen of Mass, gun owner or not, that pays taxes is supporting the politicians that vote for our messed up gun laws.

We live in a society that wants to make driving on the cell phone illegal because a family of 6 died in an accident where the driver was on the phone. That is an example of how 1 incident can change everything in a heartbeat and this can just be one more of already too many that we have to fight getting back in the firearms rights world. If the town the OP's friend lives in was not a green town, do you think this incident helps other people getting unrestricted LTC's in the future? How about we gang up and be mad over that instead of the punishment one guy got for breaking the law.

You don't get it.

 

[Cardinal Ximinez]

Rick gets it; he just doesn't care. He won't poke the lion for fear it might negatively impact him. If others get screwed, so be it.

 

[wdcollard]

What's there to explain? I feel he shouldn't get it back because he makes all LTC holders look bad and it's just another reason to add more laws and make gun ownership more stricter. Even the guy that had 40 guns stolen...it's very unfortunate but it looks bad as a whole. I also feel that drunk driver's should not be able to drive again especially on the 1st offence. I'm sure everyone here that goes out for a drink after work should have a problem with that too right? Keep in mind the op's friend got his constitutional rights taken away for one offense and drunk driver's are still allowed to drive and driving is only a privilege. Yeah that is not right but that's the way it is. It's called living in Mass and if you live in Mass you know the gun laws are strict.

Fact is, he left it in plain view, it was loaded so it should have been on his person or under his direct control right? Original poster said his friend just moved to a green town, so was his friend's license even un-restricted when this happened? We still don't even know the whole story here and everyone is jumping to conclusions. Maybe there was more to this. Maybe the cop was patrolling around a school...who knows?

As for the finger pointing and blaming someone to be part of the problem....the same can be said about each and every citizen of Mass, gun owner or not, that pays taxes is supporting the politicians that vote for our messed up gun laws.

We live in a society that wants to make driving on the cell phone illegal because a family of 6 died in an accident where the driver was on the phone. That is an example of how 1 incident can change everything in a heartbeat and this can just be one more of already too many that we have to fight getting back in the firearms rights world. If the town the OP's friend lives in was not a green town, do you think this incident helps other people getting unrestricted LTC's in the future? How about we gang up and be mad over that instead of the punishment one guy got for breaking the law.

A little commonsense is in order...

 

[shadowr434]

Did I say drink and drive no he forgot it in his locked car like you've never forgot anything in your life get real way to stretch your point

Not my gun,no.

 

[shadowr434]

I leave pens in my car and they somehow don't end up writing checks by themselves.

No POS is looking to break your window to steal your pens. That was just a silly argument.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

No POS is looking to break your window to steal your pens. That was just a silly argument.

you would prob be surprised at what people would steal, i wouldnt doubt it that there are people out there that would break a window just to steal a pen

 

[shadowr434]

Wasn't there a cop that left his ar-15 on the trunk and drove off only to have it fall off a short time later? Wonder what happened to him.
I don't think what this guy did leaving the gun on the front seat was smart but a life time ban maybe a bit harsh.

I totally agree with you,unfortunately you guys have to deal with the most ridiculous laws and enforced by police chiefs that could have a bug up his ass and decide you get no soup.

 

[bill o]

What's there to explain? I feel he shouldn't get it back because he makes all LTC holders look bad and it's just another reason to add more laws and make gun ownership more stricter.

Lawmakers file new bills every year no matter what. Are you actually saying a man's constitutional rights should be needlessly stripped for the sake of appearances?

You're saying that for the good of gun owners as a group, we need to offer up living sacrifices to keep the anti-gun gods from punishing us.

 

[Deer Slayer]

I have to ask, but I know I am going to regret it; what on earth are you talking about?

Have you ever left your phone in your car? Out in the open? OH MY GOD it was CHARGED?! Can you imagine? What if somebody stole it? It would be totally your fault.

This 'blame the victim' stuff gets old. I hope the guy did it on purpose. I also hope that as many of the moonbats stay south as possible. Please do not visit, move to, or otherwise interact with free states unless you appreciate liberty.

The chances of someone breaking my window for my piece of shit pantech are a lot lower than the chances of someone smashing my window to get a handgun. Use your brain... I value my firearms rights as much as the next guy, but were in Mass not Maine or Vermont. If someone sees a handgun on your seat through your window some EBT card crack addict is going to break it open and take it. Im sorry the laws are bad as it is now and I don't want them to get any worse.

 

[shadowr434]

That. I think if Rick had just said: "Woa,woa,woa, stop the clock - I thought about it again and I was wrong to hope he'd not get his license back", I'd have some respect for him. Continuing on with his idiotic, elitist argument, rather than buck up, man up and admit a faux pas, just continues to show him to be of the wollen clad crowd...

Woa,woa,woa, stop the clock

LMAO You missed a Woa.

 

[Terminator03]

Lawmakers file new bills every year no matter what. Are you actually saying a man's constitutional rights should be needlessly stripped for the sake of appearances?

You're saying that for the good of gun owners as a group, we need to offer up living sacrifices to keep the anti-gun gods from punishing us.

No, I don't think that's what he is saying (at least not the way I interpreted it anyway). I think he is just saying that in general it is better to fly under the radar when living in a state like we do, where events like this can trigger laws to be changed because of of one stupid person. It happens every single day around the country, and not just with guns, but EVERYTHING we do. Is it right, hell no, but I honestly don't see any realistic solution other than a complete reset like we had in 1776. Short of that, flying under the radar as best as you can is about the best you can do to survive here.

 

[atilla]

i stopped reading at "i feel".

just because you feel some way is no excuse to strip someone of their constitutional right. how very liberal of you good sir. would you care to tell us about some "common-sense" restrictions you'd like to place on firearms while you're at it?

maybe the exact same dude in question runs his mouth off on occasion and may have cool things in his pockets. enlighten us as to how you'd "feel" about that and how you'd violate his 1st and 4th amendment rights as well.

 

[Terminator03]

i stopped reading at "i feel".

just because you feel some way is no excuse to strip someone of their constitutional right. how very liberal of you good sir. would you care to tell us about some "common-sense" restrictions you'd like to place on firearms while you're at it?

maybe the exact same dude in question runs his mouth off on occasion and may have cool things in his pockets. enlighten us as to how you'd "feel" about that and how you'd violate his 1st and 4th amendment rights as well.

Not sure who you are referring to, but if it was my post, you are way off the mark. I never once voiced any opinion about whether or not this guy should, or should not get his LTC back. I was only commenting on what Rick posted in that last reply of his. Personally, I would have no objection to this guy getting his rights restored, but I do agree with Rick that it makes all of us look bad in general when people do stupid shit with firearms.

 

[cekim]

Terminator, Rick...

With no hyperbole or insult intended, your attitude is quite literally the most damaging thing to our 2A civil rights that has occurred since GCA68. This idea of hiding from the antis doesn't work. It is precisely why we are here. The NRA tried to hide behind "hunter's rights." Gun owners tried to hide with concealed carry and no carry at all.

It doesn't work for this issue any more than it works for any other civil rights issue when the majority is behaving badly.

The only way to fix this problem is to force the recognition that even if 51% does not like it, it is a fundamental right that must be respected. Yes, we should obey the law, but no we should not tolerate, accept or in your case even praise abuses of other people's rights.

This whole "they make us look bad," is nonsense. Frankly, it is a childish response. You are echoing the anti' logic and helping them get their message across. They say "guns are bad, look at this outlier occurrence, it justifies our fears." You say, "eek! a gun in plain view" and justify their gun-phobia.

You aren't going to convince any part of that 51%+ that wants to strip us of our rights if you can't convince yourself of the necessity of these rights, even in the face of outlier events such as these.

If the standard is "don't scare the sheep," well they are afraid of their own shadows, they will ban the sun...

 

[Rick8325]

i stopped reading at "i feel".

just because you feel some way is no excuse to strip someone of their constitutional right. how very liberal of you good sir. would you care to tell us about some "common-sense" restrictions you'd like to place on firearms while you're at it?

maybe the exact same dude in question runs his mouth off on occasion and may have cool things in his pockets. enlighten us as to how you'd "feel" about that and how you'd violate his 1st and 4th amendment rights as well.

Ummm, I'm not the actual person that made the decision to "strip him of his rights". I just simply agree with the person that made the decision that he is unfit, the same way I agree that a person with mental disabilities is unfit to own and operate a gun. How "I feel" has zero effect on the guy getting his LTC back. It also doesn't mean I vote for the people that put that LEO in the seat they sit in.

It's like seeing a young mother who doesn't care, at a Walmart with 4 loud, a**h*** kids destroying the store that she has no control over and you saying to yourself or to your wife or husband...wow she seems like an unfit mother, they are probably all from different daddies, DSS should take them from her. The community, our welfare system, and my shopping experience would be better off if they were sent to a deserted island. I mean I know that's way out there, but nobody here has ever "felt" that way or thought something along those lines??? I highly doubt you have never. Or how about someone talking in a movie theater. They sure can make a good experience into a bad one real quickly. It still only takes one bad apple...

 

[atilla]

Not sure who you are referring to, but if it was my post, you are way off the mark. I never once voiced any opinion about whether or not this guy should, or should not get his LTC back. I was only commenting on what Rick posted in that last reply of his. Personally, I would have no objection to this guy getting his rights restored, but I do agree with Rick that it makes all of us look bad in general when people do stupid shit with firearms.

wasn't you! i didn't quote rick because i stopped reading his post. cekim's post is a damn good one though.

plus, we already got into it about something else before, didn't we?

 

[Rick8325]

I'm not the one that is giving the anti's the "well some kid could have walked by, seen his gun and shot himself" excuse. The OP's friend who we still don't know if he even had an un-restricted LTC in whatever town this went down in was the one that gave it to them. But let's still stick up for him and slap him on his peepee because his gun rights were taken away.

 

[CrackPot]

IBTL

 

[cekim]

I'm not the one that is giving the anti's the "well some kid could have walked by, seen his gun and shot himself" excuse. The OP's friend who we still don't know if he even had an un-restricted LTC in whatever town this went down in was the one that gave it to them. But let's still stick up for him and slap him on his peepee because his gun rights were taken away.

You are validating their excuse and agreeing with it.

They need to be told bluntly this is not acceptable. Instead you are saying you hope he can't renew it and he can't be trusted.

 

[Rick8325]

You are validating their excuse and agreeing with it.

They need to be told bluntly this is not acceptable. Instead you are saying you hope he can't renew it and he can't be trusted.

If you were the chief LEO in a green Massachusetts town (which I'm sure it would be green if anyone on NES were the chief), or let's throw in a free state like Maine, would you approve and issue an 18 year old man with Down's Syndrome and no criminal record an un-restricted license to carry a concealed firearm?

Gun control is a very touchy subject with gun owners, I understand. I write to my legislators just like the next guy, but the rights for the citizens of this country was written a long time ago and although I believe in every single one of them, there still needs to be some order, especially since times have changed in the 300+ years they were written. If there was no order we wouldn't have governments, law, taxes, schools, the list goes on and on. But I'm curious to hear your answer to my question above.

 

[lancecolonel]

If you were the chief LEO in a green Massachusetts town (which I'm sure it would be green if anyone on NES were the chief), or let's throw in a free state like Maine, would you approve and issue an 18 year old man with Down's Syndrome and no criminal record an un-restricted license to carry a concealed firearm?

Gun control is a very touchy subject with gun owners, I understand. I write to my legislators just like the next guy, but the rights for the citizens of this country was written a long time ago and although I believe in every single one of them, there still needs to be some order, especially since times have changed in the 300+ years they were written. If there was no order we wouldn't have governments, law, taxes, schools, the list goes on and on. But I'm curious to hear your answer to my question above.

the 2nd ammendment was written during a time where mental illness existed but no one knew what it was or how to treat it. you may have noticed that there were no exclusions written into the ammendment for people with scurvy, people who were accused of witchcraft or anything for that matter. please explain why you think society "knows better" now?

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

If you were the chief LEO in a green Massachusetts town (which I'm sure it would be green if anyone on NES were the chief), or let's throw in a free state like Maine, would you approve and issue an 18 year old man with Down's Syndrome and no criminal record an un-restricted license to carry a concealed firearm?

Gun control is a very touchy subject with gun owners, I understand. I write to my legislators just like the next guy, but the rights for the citizens of this country was written a long time ago and although I believe in every single one of them, there still needs to be some order, especially since times have changed in the 300+ years they were written. If there was no order we wouldn't have governments, law, taxes, schools, the list goes on and on. But I'm curious to hear your answer to my question above.

Yes, everyone has a natural right to self defense as the person sees fit. As I have stated before, I would sell a gun to Corky if he wanted one. Rick, keep in mind that not just firearms are used to kill, hurt, maim, and/or oppress people. So the person with Down's should not have a knife, pen, car, rock, feet, fists, or anything else that CAN be used to maim or kill based on your "logic".

 

[Deer Slayer]

 

[Rick8325]

the 2nd ammendment was written during a time where mental illness existed but no one knew what it was or how to treat it. you may have noticed that there were no exclusions written into the ammendment for people with scurvy, people who were accused of witchcraft or anything for that matter. please explain why you think society "knows better" now?

Back in the 1400's people thought the world was flat. Today, we know better that it is round. We gained more knowledge as the country grew older. Technology came about...ect, ect.

I feel (here we go with that word again) that when states became sovereign, the US Constitution became weaker.

 

[atilla]

okay, so if you want to use the downs syndrome argument and the "knowledge" one--should the first amendment be restricted because things like smartphones and the INTARWEBZ didn't exist when the constitution was drafted?

 

[atmay]

If you were the chief LEO in a green Massachusetts town (which I'm sure it would be green if anyone on NES were the chief), or let's throw in a free state like Maine, would you approve and issue an 18 year old man with Down's Syndrome and no criminal record an un-restricted license to carry a concealed firearm?

Shall Not Be Infringed. That's the only way it will work. As soon as you start carving out 'reasonable' restrictions, there will be no end to those restrictions. This week it's Down's. Next week it's autism. The week after, mild Aspergers. Where does it stop?

Part of freedom is accepting that sometimes, bad things happen. And sometimes, someone other than the state has to take responsibility for things.

That 18y/o with Down's? It's not the state's responsibility to make sure he doesn't go out and do stupid shit. It's his friends' and family's responsibility. If I were a CLEO in MA (a job I would never take, even if a PD called me right now and offered 6 figures to do it), every single person who came into my office looking for a license would get an unrestricted class A (within the limits of who the law allows a CLEO to issue LTCs to, issuing an LTC to an 18y/o would get bounced back from the state), and I would continue lobbying for Constitutional Carry.

 

[Madball13]

If you were the chief LEO in a green Massachusetts town (which I'm sure it would be green if anyone on NES were the chief), or let's throw in a free state like Maine, would you approve and issue an 18 year old man with Down's Syndrome and no criminal record an un-restricted license to carry a concealed firearm?

Gun control is a very touchy subject with gun owners, I understand. I write to my legislators just like the next guy, but the rights for the citizens of this country was written a long time ago and although I believe in every single one of them, there still needs to be some order, especially since times have changed in the 300+ years they were written. If there was no order we wouldn't have governments, law, taxes, schools, the list goes on and on. But I'm curious to hear your answer to my question above.

Your hypothetical is nonsense and shouldn't be answered. Just because we are against BS guns laws doesn't automatically default us into believing in complete unrestriction to the extreme. You are using this poor example as a means to justify your poor stance, MSNBC and other libtards use this tactic all the time and you should be ashamed to use it yourself.

 

[cekim]

If you were the chief LEO in a green Massachusetts town (which I'm sure it would be green if anyone on NES were the chief), or let's throw in a free state like Maine, would you approve and issue an 18 year old man with Down's Syndrome and no criminal record an un-restricted license to carry a concealed firearm?

Gun control is a very touchy subject with gun owners, I understand. I write to my legislators just like the next guy, but the rights for the citizens of this country was written a long time ago and although I believe in every single one of them, there still needs to be some order, especially since times have changed in the 300+ years they were written. If there was no order we wouldn't have governments, law, taxes, schools, the list goes on and on. But I'm curious to hear your answer to my question above.

The simple answer to the above is that someone who is mentally defective:
a. can be ajudicated after due process as such.
b. This is primarily a family issue. Much as you would not let a child do so until they were able, a parent of a mentally retarded person should be taking care to prevent them access to any of the many gardening tools that they could hurt themselves or others.

If he/she is a ward of the state, see "a." This can be handled with due process, in the context of 100's of years of established law/principle and without infringing on everyone's rights."

You aren't seeing the big picture here. If you create ANY situation where the burden of proof is not on the state and the bar high to restrict someone's fundamental rights, that power WILL (and has) been abused.

If there are specific circumstances such as criminal behavior or mental deficiencies, then due process can and must be used to provide a means of abridging rights (imprisonment, restriction of access to gardening tools, etc... ).

Your argument about when the Constitution was written does not hold water. Little to nothing about the principles of liberty and the need to restrain government power have changed. People such as yourself who had irrational fears about what their neighbors MIGHT do existed back then too...

This is not about "changing times," this is about limiting the power of the majority from abusing the minority with the club of mob-rule democracy.