IMPORTANT NOTICE for all gunowners House Bill H2259

[dwarven1]

So I can take a look at it, can you show me in our bill where possession of ammunition without a license makes you a felon? Could have missed that, so I need to know where you read it in the bill.

The definition I object to is the first definition in Section 3, subsection 122. Section 8, subsection 124 says that no one shall possess it... although on a closer read I can't seem to find the penalty for violating section 124.

And I see that same definition showing up again in Section 24 to be inserted in Chapter 269. CASES, PRIMERS, BULLETS AND POWDER ARE NOT AMMUNITION!!!

 

[GOAL]

The definition I object to is the first definition in Section 3, subsection 122. Section 8, subsection 124 says that no one shall possess it... although on a closer read I can't seem to find the penalty for violating section 124.

And I see that same definition showing up again in Section 24 to be inserted in Chapter 269. CASES, PRIMERS, BULLETS AND POWDER ARE NOT AMMUNITION!!!

According to federal law they are. I don't like it much it either, but there isn't much hope in changing the federal definition so arguing over that point is pretty useless at this time.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

18 U.S.C. 921a (17) (A) The term “ammunition” means ammunition or cartridge cases, primers, bullets, or propellent powder designed for use in any firearm.

 

[dwarven1]

In that case we should be working on removing the requirement to have an FID for all ammunition.

 

[Len-2A Training]

While functionally delightful that we would not have to disarm on those days/trips we have to stop by the PO or other .gov building, this is a non-trivial enterprise...

I am sure that this will require far more than mere "lockers" in a broom closet somewhere near the entrance...

Were such an item on the other side of 2A, I'd say it smells of unintended consequences and might be worse than the disease it is trying to cure...

Any thoughts or prior discussion on how this would be implemented and what the projected costs and hurdles would be?
p.s. think gun room at the elementary school or post office...

I know how it can and should be done . . . as it was in the two PDs that I've worked in.

However, I'd worry about the security of such firearms lockers in public buildings, based on what I've seen in some public buildings that I've been in. I think it very unwise to say any more on this part of the subject (current conditions) in any public forum. Anyone want to discuss it with me in person is welcome to do so, otherwise OpSec should apply.

 

[Len-2A Training]

In that case we should be working on removing the requirement to have an FID for all ammunition.

Hear! Hear!!

 

[brew3x]

Here is the response i got from my rep

"Dear Robert,



I write in response to your email urging my support for H2259 sponsored by Representative George Peterson, Jr. titled An Act Relative to Civil Rights and Public Safety. The bill is currently before the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security for analysis and legislative action. As I am not a member of this committee, I do not attend informational meetings nor public hearings on this particular bill.


As with most bills that are not directly before me, I feel that I must wait for the Committee's recommendation and the chance to review all debate in the House of Representatives from members on both sides of the issue before I commit my support or opposition. Also, it is early in the session and the language of the bill is likely to change as it goes through the legislative process. Often times, these changes can alter the original intent of the bill.


I hope this note finds all well and please know that I will carefully consider your views in my deliberations on the Commonwealth's gun laws.


Best regards,"

 

[gjones77]

From a strictly pragmatic and political stand point, I have to agree that we need to move in small increments with regards to changing state laws.

You can always slip little things by politicians in bills (bailout bill is proof of that), but trying to completely rewrite that laws in one shot seldom makes it through without a fight.

So to me this bill is a great first step, get our foot in the door.

 

[theGringo]

I am sure that this will require far more than mere "lockers" in a broom closet somewhere near the entrance...

Were such an item on the other side of 2A, I'd say it smells of unintended consequences and might be worse than the disease it is trying to cure...

Any thoughts or prior discussion on how this would be implemented and what the projected costs and hurdles would be?
p.s. think gun room at the elementary school or post office...

As an elementary school teacher, I say it's doable. If the secretary secures and protects visitors' firearms with the same ruthlessness as she defends staples, pencils and paperclips, there should be no trouble at all.

The only question that enters my mind here is whether the custodian of stored arms would have to be a licensed person?

Eh. Maybe the school nurse could just lock up the guns with the students' meds.

 

[henchmen77]

Brew,

Ask him based of the current bill as it is worded now would he support it? It is sounding to me like he is anti gun no shocker there!! But just email and let him know you would like to know where he stands on this as it is worded now and that you will be fallowing up when the bill comes out of committee and will be contacting others in the district about this bill to get more support.

You can go on GOALS site and email the committee they have the House and Sen listed on there main page.

Here is the response i got from my rep

"Dear Robert,



I write in response to your email urging my support for H2259 sponsored by Representative George Peterson, Jr. titled An Act Relative to Civil Rights and Public Safety. The bill is currently before the Joint Committee on Public Safety and Homeland Security for analysis and legislative action. As I am not a member of this committee, I do not attend informational meetings nor public hearings on this particular bill.


As with most bills that are not directly before me, I feel that I must wait for the Committee's recommendation and the chance to review all debate in the House of Representatives from members on both sides of the issue before I commit my support or opposition. Also, it is early in the session and the language of the bill is likely to change as it goes through the legislative process. Often times, these changes can alter the original intent of the bill.


I hope this note finds all well and please know that I will carefully consider your views in my deliberations on the Commonwealth's gun laws.


Best regards,"

 

[jdubois]

Has anybody else looked at the definition of 'Machine Gun' in the bill? It includes the "frame or receiver" of a machine gun in the definition of a machine gun. What exactly is a frame or receiver of a machine gun? How is it different in many instances to the frame or receiver of a semi-auto gun? Under this definition are all, say, AR-15 stripped lowers legally machine guns? Theoretically almost any frame or receiver could be built up into a machine gun.

IMHO that wording is good in the definition of a firearm, but should be struck from the definition of a machine gun.

 

[henchmen77]

Has anybody else looked at the definition of 'Machine Gun' in the bill? It includes the "frame or receiver" of a machine gun in the definition of a machine gun. What exactly is a frame or receiver of a machine gun? How is it different in many instances to the frame or receiver of a semi-auto gun? Under this definition are all, say, AR-15 stripped lowers legally machine guns? Theoretically almost any frame or receiver could be built up into a machine gun.

IMHO that wording is good in the definition of a firearm, but should be struck from the definition of a machine gun.

Guys I think some of you are digging a little to much in this bill. Is all the wording going to be 100% no. But this is a HUGE step in helping out us firearms owners here in Mass. Seeing you all are reading this bill and putting Question on here I hope you are calling/emailing the committee members who are dealing with this bill right now. You can debate this bill all you want here. Just don't forget to show support no matter what is or is not in the bill as it reads now.

 

[jdubois]

Guys I think some of you are digging a little to much in this bill. Is all the wording going to be 100% no. But this is a HUGE step in helping out us firearms owners here in Mass. Seeing you all are reading this bill and putting Question on here I hope you are calling/emailing the committee members who are dealing with this bill right now. You can debate this bill all you want here. Just don't forget to show support no matter what is or is not in the bill as it reads now.

Oh, don't worry, I've read and analyzed the bill thoroughly several times. It's awesome, without a doubt has my full support, and I've contacted the legislators.

But that doesn't mean I can't pick at the low hanging bits . With the current set of laws we have, nobody was allowed to dig into the bill beforehand and comment!

 

[henchmen77]

Oh, don't worry, I've read and analyzed the bill thoroughly several times. It's awesome, without a doubt has my full support, and I've contacted the legislators.

But that doesn't mean I can't pick at the low hanging bits . With the current set of laws we have, nobody was allowed to dig into the bill beforehand and comment!

Good to hear you contacted them!! This weekend I am going to bring this up at my local club. And post the bill and the committee memebers and also the Reps contact info. I know GOAL will have a meeting at the club but most don't show up. The longer something hangs posted on a board the more people will see it.

I think if people talk to there local gun dealers and have them post something and talk to there customers the more the word will get out. I know Carl at fourseason has the txt of the bill and will get around to putting it on his website.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Oh, don't worry, I've read and analyzed the bill thoroughly several times. It's awesome, without a doubt has my full support, and I've contacted the legislators.

But that doesn't mean I can't pick at the low hanging bits . With the current set of laws we have, nobody was allowed to dig into the bill beforehand and comment!

Could you highlight and post sections of just the changed portions?

 

[cekim]

As an elementary school teacher, I say it's doable. If the secretary secures and protects visitors' firearms with the same ruthlessness as she defends staples, pencils and paperclips, there should be no trouble at all.

Just so long as there is no peanut dust on your gun, there should be no issue...

The only question that enters my mind here is whether the custodian of stored arms would have to be a licensed person?

Far from the only question, but an important one as it essentially requires ALL .gov buildings including schools and POs to potentially have a licensed person on staff ready take possession....

Then there is the matter of security of the storage and isolation of this room so as not to spook the herd while you unholster - we wouldn't want their virgin liberal eyes to have to suffer the indignity of seeing a firearm[sad2]

Eh. Maybe the school nurse could just lock up the guns with the students' meds.

Schools might very well be "easier" as they are more and more geared toward limited ingress/egress monitored by staff...

I am sure there are other .gov facilities geared towards throughput that are far harder to deal with...

 

[jdubois]

Could you highlight and post sections of just the changed portions?

The entire bill is a changed portion. Almost nothing of the old Chapter 180 laws is left.

The main highlights, however, are:

No more AWB.

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

No more LTCs. Only 'shall issue' FIDs with age restrictions (15-18 can possess rifles and shotguns, 18-21 can purchase and possess rifles and shotguns, 21+ can purchase, possess, and carry concealed handguns, rifles and shotguns.)

No more FA-10 forms.

No more locked storage requirement.

'Shall issue' machine gun licenses.

Tougher sentences for crimes committed with firearms and trafficking in firearms.

 

[06LemansC6]

The entire bill is a changed portion. Almost nothing of the old Chapter 180 laws is left.

The main highlights, however, are:

No more AWB.

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

No more LTCs. Only 'shall issue' FIDs with age restrictions (15-18 can possess rifles and shotguns, 18-21 can purchase and possess rifles and shotguns, 21+ can purchase, possess, and carry concealed handguns, rifles and shotguns.)

No more FA-10 forms.

No more locked storage requirement.

'Shall issue' machine gun licenses.

Tougher sentences for crimes committed with firearms and trafficking in firearms.

Sounds like it contains way too much common sense to ever pass in MA. As a non-res I'd love to be able to get a shall issue LTC (FID) good for 5 years. This annual renewal at $100/yr sucks.

 

[jdubois]

Sounds like it contains way too much common sense to ever pass in MA. As a non-res I'd love to be able to get a shall issue LTC (FID) good for 5 years. This annual renewal at $100/yr sucks.

Yep, you guys would be taken care of as well. Non-res FIDs would be the same as res FIDs. Shall issue, $40, and good for not less than six years.

 

[Rob]

Reading the bill gets me all tingly at the prospect. I cannot imagine any MA gun owner would find it objectionable, given the ridiculousness of the laws on the books now.

 

[CRSIII]

The entire bill is a changed portion. Almost nothing of the old Chapter 180 laws is left.

The main highlights, however, are:

No more AWB.

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

No more LTCs. Only 'shall issue' FIDs with age restrictions (15-18 can possess rifles and shotguns, 18-21 can purchase and possess rifles and shotguns, 21+ can purchase, possess, and carry concealed handguns, rifles and shotguns.)

No more FA-10 forms.

No more locked storage requirement.

'Shall issue' machine gun licenses.

Tougher sentences for crimes committed with firearms and trafficking in firearms.

That was great! I need a ciggarette.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Far from the only question, but an important one as it essentially requires ALL .gov buildings including schools and POs to potentially have a licensed person on staff ready take possession....

Then there is the matter of security of the storage and isolation of this room

Not really, gun lockers are made/sold to PDs and as long as the gun owner keeps the key, the person who points to the gun locker need not be licensed.

The matter of security concerns me deeply, from what I've witnessed/encountered to date.

 

[cekim]

Not really, gun lockers are made/sold to PDs and as long as the gun owner keeps the key, the person who points to the gun locker need not be licensed.

True, but...

The matter of security concerns me deeply, from what I've witnessed/encountered to date.

The above issue and this one seem related...

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not really related but I don't want to expose the weakness of the system publicly or it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

All I'll say is that they systems that they installed at the PDs were indeed secure, so the premise is good . . . it's just lacking in implementation.

 

[cekim]

Not really related but I don't want to expose the weakness of the system publicly or it could become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

All I'll say is that they systems that they installed at the PDs were indeed secure, so the premise is good . . . it's just lacking in implementation.

Noted...

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

The entire bill is a changed portion. Almost nothing of the old Chapter 180 laws is left.

The main highlights, however, are:

No more AWB.

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

No more LTCs. Only 'shall issue' FIDs with age restrictions (15-18 can possess rifles and shotguns, 18-21 can purchase and possess rifles and shotguns, 21+ can purchase, possess, and carry concealed handguns, rifles and shotguns.)

No more FA-10 forms.

No more locked storage requirement.

'Shall issue' machine gun licenses.

Tougher sentences for crimes committed with firearms and trafficking in firearms.

Thanks.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

The entire bill is a changed portion. Almost nothing of the old Chapter 180 laws is left.

The main highlights, however, are:

No more AWB.

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

No more LTCs. Only 'shall issue' FIDs with age restrictions (15-18 can possess rifles and shotguns, 18-21 can purchase and possess rifles and shotguns, 21+ can purchase, possess, and carry concealed handguns, rifles and shotguns.)

No more FA-10 forms.

No more locked storage requirement.

'Shall issue' machine gun licenses.

Tougher sentences for crimes committed with firearms and trafficking in firearms.

ah, in a perfect world...

 

[jdubois]

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

Actually, I got ahead of myself there. No more EOPS list, but the AG regs would likely still apply since they're not very dependent on the Chapter 180 laws. And interestingly, with the 4 gun per year private sale limit gone, the AG regs might be interpreted to include some private sales. Depends on the way you interpret the definition of the word "customer".

 

[kevin9]

The entire bill is a changed portion. Almost nothing of the old Chapter 180 laws is left.

The main highlights, however, are:

No more AWB.

No more EOPS list/AG regs.

No more LTCs. Only 'shall issue' FIDs with age restrictions (15-18 can possess rifles and shotguns, 18-21 can purchase and possess rifles and shotguns, 21+ can purchase, possess, and carry concealed handguns, rifles and shotguns.)

No more FA-10 forms.

No more locked storage requirement.

'Shall issue' machine gun licenses.

Tougher sentences for crimes committed with firearms and trafficking in firearms.

And no CLEO-made-up restrictions.

 

[Windwalker]

Not really, gun lockers are made/sold to PDs and as long as the gun owner keeps the key, the person who points to the gun locker need not be licensed.

The matter of security concerns me deeply, from what I've witnessed/encountered to date.

I agree. The state agency I work for constructs state-owned buildings (courthouses, prisons, universities, state office buildings, etc.). Part of that obviously includes weapon storage for some buildings. Secure storage products are available and, yes, the owner keeps the key and the LEO or building security staff never touch the firearm. If clearing the weapon is required, there's certainly equipment to help make it a safer process.

Will it cost the taxpayers to install? Yes. Is it worth it? Well, to someone who chooses to exercise their rights and whose options otherwise would be to leave it at home or lock it in their car - yes. If storage is not provided, then we continue to place a level of restriction on those who choose to carry.

 

[sleeplessknight]

I just emailed my reps and the senators listed on the bill. Thanks GOAL, for putting all the hard work in and getting this thing written up! I just signed up for a three-year membership last week too, keep up the great work guys!

--Lee