IMPORTANT NOTICE for all gunowners House Bill H2259

dwarven1 said:
Uh... is it my imagination, or does this text still leave in place the whole "empty brass is equal to ammunition" BS?


Why is this camelshit still in here???
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The first quote is definitely still a thorn in my side. I bet most reloaders are in violation of this law.

The second quote is just standard crap, but they are basically saying, you can't possess a gun unless you are a licensee. Am I happy about it? no. Do I sadly think its going to have to stay? yes.
 
For clarification, the ammunition sales problem doesn't only come from the definition of ammunition. (The federal definition also includes casings.) The real problem was that the last MA AG ruled on the dealer law (currently Chapter 140, Section 122B - http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-122b.htm). He ruled that because of the dealer licensing law that out of state vendors would need a license from every town in MA to sell ammo or components.

H.2259 does away with the ammo dealer license section.
 
lord1234 said:
The first quote is definitely still a thorn in my side. I bet most reloaders are in violation of this law.

The second quote is just standard crap, but they are basically saying, you can't possess a gun unless you are a licensee. Am I happy about it? no. Do I sadly think its going to have to stay? yes.
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Uh... No. Read it again, and this time look at what I put in bold.
 
GOAL said:
For clarification, the ammunition sales problem doesn't only come from the definition of ammunition. (The federal definition also includes casings.) The real problem was that the last MA AG ruled on the dealer law (currently Chapter 140, Section 122B - http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-122b.htm). He ruled that because of the dealer licensing law that out of state vendors would need a license from every town in MA to sell ammo or components.

H.2259 does away with the ammo dealer license section.
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Jim, am I correct in that this version still requires an FID or LTC to possess loaded ammunition, OR empty brass, primers, powder and bullets?
 
dwarven1 said:
Jim, am I correct in that this version still requires an FID or LTC to possess loaded ammunition, OR empty brass, primers, powder and bullets?
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You are correct that you would still need an FID (LTCs are gone in our bill) to possess ammo (components as well). We debated this part for some time before leaving it in. But, by doing away with the dealer law, we should be addressing the component sale issue.

What people need to keep in mind is that this billl represents the first step in what amounts to a massive cultural change in Massachusetts. H.2259 isn't nearly perfect, but it is a crucial first step. As even Ted Nugent says - We are going to have to make the change in getting our rights back in incremental steps.
 
GOAL said:
You are correct that you would still need an FID (LTCs are gone in our bill) to possess ammo (components as well). We debated this part for some time before leaving it in.
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My big concern is that this makes a felon out of someone who, for example, picks up a piece of empty brass at a military funeral, or a kid who keeps a piece of brass from his big range trip.

Heck, I've seen people get .22 brass stuck in the treads of their workboots!!

I know... baby steps. But it still pisses me off that someone could get arrested for having a piece of empty brass. [thinking]
 
This is great!!! Great work by Goal and Peterson!!!!
He is my rep and will keep my vote. Definitely one of the few bright spots on beacon-less hill..
 
Section 10E. Whoever, except as provided by law, in a single transaction or occurrence or in
series of transactions within a twelve month period, knowingly or intentionally distributes, sells,
or transfers possession of a quantity of firearms, machine guns, or any combination thereof,
shall, if the quantity of firearms, machine guns, or any combination thereof is:
(1) Three or more, but less than ten, be punished by a term of imprisonment of not more than
ten years in the state prison. No sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be
for less than a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of three years and a fine of not more
than fifty thousand dollars may be imposed but not in lieu of the mandatory minimum term of
imprisonment, as established herein.
 
rchap36 said:
Section 10E. Whoever, except as provided by law, in a single transaction or occurrence or in
series of transactions within a twelve month period, knowingly or intentionally distributes, sells,
or transfers possession of a quantity of firearms, machine guns, or any combination thereof,
shall, if the quantity of firearms, machine guns, or any combination thereof is:
(1) Three or more, but less than ten, be punished by a term of imprisonment of not more than
ten years in the state prison. No sentence imposed under the provisions of this paragraph shall be
for less than a mandatory minimum term of imprisonment of three years and a fine of not more
than fifty thousand dollars may be imposed but not in lieu of the mandatory minimum term of
imprisonment, as established herein.
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Operative words in bold. If you conform to the requirements of a private sale, 10E does not apply to you.
 
pdm said:
Operative words in bold. If you conform to the requirements of a private sale, 10E does not apply to you.
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Correct. I believe we covered this in H.2259 in Section 8 by saying that if you display an FID card you are legal.

SECTION 8. Section one hundred twenty-four of chapter one hundred and forty of the General Laws is hereby amended by deleting the section in its entirety and replacing it with the following:-

Section 124. No person, other than a federally licensed dealer or one who has been issued a firearm identification card or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm or ammunition.

No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer a firearm or ammunition other than: (1) by operation of law; (2) to an exempt person as hereinafter described; (3) to a federally licensed dealer; or (4) to a person who displays his firearm identification card.
 
dwarven1 said:
My big concern is that this makes a felon out of someone who, for example, picks up a piece of empty brass at a military funeral, or a kid who keeps a piece of brass from his big range trip.

Heck, I've seen people get .22 brass stuck in the treads of their workboots!!

I know... baby steps. But it still pisses me off that someone could get arrested for having a piece of empty brass. [thinking]
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Haha happens to me all the time. Just found some under the mat in my car while cleaning it yesterday.

I'm going to be honest here and just say I don't understand gun laws. I'm right there with everyone in that I don't want someone to take a gun or have access to a gun if they plan on causing violence. But does it piss anyone off that we have to beg for the right to defend ourselves and our property from harm? You have to put in hours and hours of your life playing the political game to secure your natural right to defend yourself. It's crazy to me.

I'm probably just dreaming here, but it would be great if we could all just say, enough is enough. Gun owners, gun shop owners, ammunition factories, gun factories, etc. just stood up and said "We mean no harm and we want the right to defend ourselves. We are going to make what we want, we are going to sell what we want and we are going to buy what we want." It would just be so empowering to stand up to raw state power and aggression.

Cause I'll bet you they would bring out the guns too and things would get ugly. That is what state power is to me and I'm just sick of playing politics and being nice with these busy body immoralists.

As a caveat, I'm not endorsing armed insurrection. I just don't think people should have to stand up and that this shit anymore. We need more direct action to change things!
 
rchap36 said:
When will this bill be passed? I HAVE HOPE
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It is still in committee the more backing you all can give this bill the more chance it will get out of committee! If they don't hear from all you shooters out there it will just sit. Once it is out of committee, the fight is not over! You have to keep making your voice heard these Reps work for you the people! And the more people they hear from in support of this bill the more they will want to pass it.

Look at the money for police officers. In a matter of two days 83 Reps were backing putting the money back into the budget. You know why? Every police office and Lt and Capt were calling there Reps. So why can't we shooters do the same?

The more people that put a copy of this bill and a email/phone list of the Reps at there local club and talk to there clubs to post it and get the word out! GOAL is great and Jim works his butt off but they can't do it all without US!!!!!!!!!!! So lets start getting the word out.
 
henchmen77 said:
The more people that put a copy of this bill and a email/phone list of the Reps at there local club and talk to there clubs to post it and get the word out! GOAL is great and Jim works his butt off but they can't do it all without US!!!!!!!!!!! So lets start getting the word out.
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I can help get Mass Gun Law Reform information to your clubs. Send me an email at [email protected]

Also for those of you who have questions about H2259 or would like an in depth explanation please refer to the Mass Gun Law Reform Seminar Schedule .

New dates and venues will be added as scheduled. If you do not see one in your area contact your local club and request they host a seminar.
 
Mrs. Magnum said:
I can help get Mass Gun Law Reform information to your clubs. Send me an email at [email protected]

Also for those of you who have questions about H2259 or would like an in depth explanation please refer to the Mass Gun Law Reform Seminar Schedule .

New dates and venues will be added as scheduled. If you do not see one in your area contact your local club and request they host a seminar.
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Email on the way Kim. You have always been helpful when I have talked to you on the phone. Thanks for all your hard work for GOAL and for us shooters!
 
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dwarven1 said:
My big concern is that this makes a felon out of someone who, for example, picks up a piece of empty brass at a military funeral, or a kid who keeps a piece of brass from his big range trip.

Heck, I've seen people get .22 brass stuck in the treads of their workboots!!

I know... baby steps. But it still pisses me off that someone could get arrested for having a piece of empty brass. [thinking]
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Indeed!

Think of all those school/business lock-downs because one piece of ammo (or was it a spent shell casing?) was found!!

After last Saturday's range trip, I found a spent 22 casing on the floor of my office beside the shoes that I had been wearing . . . obviously it had been stuck in one of my shoes.

I also found a well-washed spent 22 casing in the washing machine this week . . . and I know that I went thru all my pants pockets twice before throwing them in the hamper.

Now imagine some visitor (child) to a gun club walking thru a range . . . and later that week found with a spent 22 casing stuck in their shoe at school! Do you really think the kid will get a "pass" for his/her crime?? No way! Suspension at minimum and criminal charges entirely possible . . . and since it is a gun crime, it makes that person DQ'd for life from any possibility of getting a LTC.

Yup, that's justice!

I'd prefer ammo components be removed from the definition of ammo for this very reason.
 
What are the chances that this bill will get through? I'm spreading the word for support to anyone that will listen. I live in a black town so this thing would help me out big time.
 
dwarven1 said:
My big concern is that this makes a felon out of someone who, for example, picks up a piece of empty brass at a military funeral, or a kid who keeps a piece of brass from his big range trip.

Heck, I've seen people get .22 brass stuck in the treads of their workboots!!

I know... baby steps. But it still pisses me off that someone could get arrested for having a piece of empty brass. [thinking]
Click to expand...

So I can take a look at it, can you show me in our bill where possession of ammunition without a license makes you a felon? Could have missed that, so I need to know where you read it in the bill.
 
Rather than using my energy to pick this apart, I'm viewing it as an important step forward.

Page 20, Section 126 hit a personal spot for me. [grin] Thanks, Jim.
"Any government agency, building, or facility that restricts access to a citizen lawfully carrying a firearm shall provide, free of charge, a means for securely storing any firearm(s) possessed by a holder of a firearms identification card who wishes to enter the building or facility."

A couple of us, working at the McCormack Bldg., made an attempt years ago to arrange this. It went nowhere, then.
 
Windwalker said:
"Any government agency, building, or facility that restricts access to a citizen lawfully carrying a firearm shall provide, free of charge, a means for securely storing any firearm(s) possessed by a holder of a firearms identification card who wishes to enter the building or facility."
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While functionally delightful that we would not have to disarm on those days/trips we have to stop by the PO or other .gov building, this is a non-trivial enterprise...

I am sure that this will require far more than mere "lockers" in a broom closet somewhere near the entrance...

Were such an item on the other side of 2A, I'd say it smells of unintended consequences and might be worse than the disease it is trying to cure... [thinking]

Any thoughts or prior discussion on how this would be implemented and what the projected costs and hurdles would be?
p.s. think gun room at the elementary school or post office...
 

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