I'm liking my new CMP M1Carbine, but would you really want to carry this into combat?

Rockrivr1

Rockrivr1

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In a plinking role I really like this M1 Carbine. But if I was a soldier in WWII, I'm thinking I'd want something a little more powerful. Does anyone know what the role was supposed to be for these rifles? While I know the balistics are probably way different, I'm wondering if the 30 cal is similiar to our troops now using .223.

Would you want to carry this rifle in Combat?
 
While it's not a main battle rifle, it served it's purpose better then expected. Even for front line units, Officers and Non Coms who would have had only a .45 procured these for more accuracy at moderate distance then a pistol could provide. Not overly powerful, but in close, like in house to house fighting in W.W.II it was more then adequate.

That said, the best rifle ever carried by U.S. Troops, considering effective range and accuracy in IMHO was the M14.
 
There's a lot of bodies in the dirt with carbine rounds tucked in em...Not the most effective cartridge ever made, but it worked.

My grandfather carried one toward the end of WWII after losing his Thompson in an explosion. While waiting for a replacement, (found or shipped), he got a Paratrooper Carbine and carried it for the rest of the war. He did a fair amount of killing, (Airborne) and waxed poetic about both the M1 Carbine and Thompson dispatching humanity that was trying to dispatch him...I would take one into combat, (God forbid), but would carry it knowing there were better options out there....
 
Ballistically it's a little better than a .357magnum ...the round that was feared when it first came out and is still touted as a great man stopper.

Seems that there are 1,000's of dead Japs, Germans, Koreans and VietCong that might tell you that it's a good round, if they could.
 
I like shooting my Carbine, but carry it into combat? No, I don't think so.

Carry it while driving trucks, recovering broken tanks, delivering mail in the general area of the badguys, just in case I run into them? Sure! Lighter, shorter, works good enough, accurate enough.

Mine has the annoying habit of spraying brass any direction it wants, and I still don't have a handload that will reliably work the gas system, but other than that, it's a lot of fun.
 
The carbine was developed for rear echelon troops and at short ranges has similiar ballistics to the .357. At longer ranges it retains more energy than said .357.

It was meant for rear echelon troops and support personnel, but because of its light weight, mag capacity etc it found its way into the front line and did well. I'd certainly take it over any of the bolt actions that still armed the front lines of most other armies. I'm thinking about getting a quad rail for my Saginaw and use it as a home defense gun.
 
vellnueve said:
... I'm thinking about getting a quad rail for my Saginaw and use it as a home defense gun.
Click to expand...

What is a "quad rail", and how does having one make it more useful as a "home defense gun" than one without said "quad rail"?
 
Adds four weaver rails forward of the foreend, one of which runs back along the top to the receiver. Replaces the handguard.

Be nice to have a reflex sight on top, Surefire on a side rail.
 
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Canadian author Farley Mowatt fought in Sicily and Italy. His book "And No Birds Sang" is an excellent depiction of front line combat in those nasty conflicts. (He is better known for his book "Never Cry Wolf.")

His description of his Sicily adventure includes trading his Webley revolver to a US GI for a M1 carbine, and states it was the best deal he made in the war.

(NOTE: Although the book is occasionally funny, it also features some of the most poignant descriptions of combat I have ever encountered, including a tribute to stretcher bearers and a description of enduring a bombardment in the company of a dying German Fallschirmjager, with whom he shared his canteen he habitually filled with vodka. Madness is indeed part of the book.)
 
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The M1 rifle (as well as all other battle rifles) was grossly overpowered for the tactical realities of most of WW2.

The Soviets were the first to realize this and issued submachineguns to front line infantry in greater numbers than anyone. The Wehrmacht follwed soon after and developed the first true assault rifle which was fed a cartridge puny in comparison to what the K98 was fed.

The M1 and M2 carbines were the closest we came to fielding a true assault rifle until the M16 showed up.
 
A number of WW II vets tried to use the M1 Carbine as a deer gun following the war, reasoning that it was a 30 cal carbine, just like the Winchester 30-30. Anecdotal evidence suggest that it failed miserably at this task - wounded deer kept running off and escaping.

The problem, of course, was the FMJ ammo.

Legendary NYPD gunfighter Jim Cirrillo used it quite a bit on criminals, and raved about it's effectiveness. Unfettered by the Hauge conventions, he was using commercail softpoint ammo, which mushroomed quite effectively.

Regards
John
 
Amicus said:
Canadian author Farley Mowatt fought in Sicily and Italy. His book "And No Birds Sang" is an excellent depiction of front line combat in those nasty conflicts. (He is better known for his book "Never Cry Wolf.")
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I see that Marlboro Public has this book... I'll have to get it and read it. I've read Mowat's book Grey Seas Under, about tugboats in the North Atlantic during WWII - good book. Somewhere I have an autographed copy; my folks met him years ago on a trip to the Canadian Maritimes, and in fact, stayed at the motel that he ran.

As for taking the M1 Carbine into combat... I've never been in combat and G-d willing, never will, but my carbine is reliable and accurate. I don't think I'd want to try and shoot anything at 400 yards with it, but for close up and personal (say, less than 100 yards), I'd feel confident with it. And it's certainly light enough that it can be carried more easily than, say, my Garand. And isn't the first rule of gunfighting "Have a gun"? The M1 Carbine makes that easy to follow.
 
give me a garand in comba1 any day over the m1 carbine


sure its a bit heavier...but i wanna know what im shooting is gonna go down...and also that i dont need to wait til theyre within 50 yards before i can score a clean hit
 
You have obviously never shot an M1 carbine if you think you can't hit past 100 yards. I have found my carbine to be one of the most accurate milsurp rifles that I own. It retains plenty of energy at that range to put someone down.
 
blood hound said:
give me a garand in comba1 any day over the m1 carbine sure its a bit heavier...but i wanna know what im shooting is gonna go down...and also that i dont need to wait til theyre within 50 yards before i can score a clean hit
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My M1 Garands are plenty heavy for this mouse potato. Too heavy for me to be humping for long.

You are mistaken about the accuracy of an M1 carbine. I've shot mine prone at 50 yards and easily shot a 1-2" group in the head of an IDPA target. A decent M1 carbine can make 100 yard shots all day long.

The M1 carbine is a nice, light, sweet-handling gun. No, it's not what you want for making a 300 yard shot. But just how realistic is a 300 yard shot anyways?
 
The M1 carbine is a nice, light, sweet-handling gun. No, it's not what you want for making a 300 yard shot. But just how realistic is a 300 yard shot anyways?
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nowadays in the urban theater not very

back then id say it was alot more frequent

not saying it is entirely realistic but just thinking back to some of the scenes of band of brothers there were a few times were guys were shooting at each other across a field that couldnt have been more than 500 yards away...were the guys with carbines hittin what they were shootin? no...were the guys with garands? prob not either but at least their rounds were making it over there

i agree that weight and amount of ammo you can carry are 2 things you need to consider when humping it all day...kinda like the current m14 vs m16 debate

me myself...knowing i could reach out further if i needed to and wanted to and most of the time make a one shot kill or disabling shot is enough peace of mind for me to want to carry the garand
 
blood hound said:
nowadays in the urban theater not very

back then id say it was alot more frequent

not saying it is entirely realistic but just thinking back to some of the scenes of band of brothers there were a few times were guys were shooting at each other across a field that couldnt have been more than 500 yards away...were the guys with carbines hittin what they were shootin? no...were the guys with garands? prob not either but at least their rounds were making it over there

i agree that weight and amount of ammo you can carry are 2 things you need to consider when humping it all day...kinda like the current m14 vs m16 debate

me myself...knowing i could reach out further if i needed to and wanted to and most of the time make a one shot kill or disabling shot is enough peace of mind for me to want to carry the garand
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You're using a miniseries as part of your argument?
 
In imagine Blood Hound's reference to Band of Brothers was merely intended to reference combat at extended range vs. close combat. Not intending to imply that the show was a valid reference point for balastic performance.

I do think his comments on m14 vs. M16 debate is right on. This is another illustration of the 7.62 vs. 5.56 or 9mm vs. .45 argument. I think it's a well established fact that a .22 round, properly placed will kill someone. Therefore, the extended deabates over whether the larer or smaller caliber round is better may be fun to engage in, but will probably not result in changing anyone's mind.

The decision that people (and armies) need to make is whether they feel that the risk of having a smaller round with arguably less penetrating capability is offset by having the ability to carry a lot more ammo for the same weight.

Personally, I've landed on the side of more ammo is better. When choosing between the AK, FAL, M1A, Garand, or AR, I'll take the AR. Absent the AR, I'd be happy with an M1 carbine. In fact, It's my first choice for the wife's SHTF weapon.
 
blood hound said:
not saying it is entirely realistic but just thinking back to some of the scenes of band of brothers there were a few times were guys were shooting at each other across a field that couldnt have been more than 500 yards away...were the guys with carbines hittin what they were shootin? no...were the guys with garands? prob not either but at least their rounds were making it over there
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A) The German and Russian armies knew better than you what the realities of WW2 combat required, which is why they were furiously deploying submachineguns and assault rifles to every soldier they could.

B) I don't think you have any idea how far 500 yard is and how incredibly difficult it is to spot a man wearing a camouflage (or even OD) uniform when he is prone or behind concealment unless you have some good optics on your weapon.

You sound like the Fudds who claim 500 yard kills and when stood on a 500 yard line and asked the distance to the target say 800 to 1000.
 
You sound like the Fudds who claim 500 yard kills and when stood on a 500 yard line and asked the distance to the target say 800 to 1000.
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youre right...im an idiot...i must have never shot at those ranges before...what was i thinking...

what dont you reread my post...like i said it may not be entirely realistic or based 100% on facts but for example when theyre in bastogne in the forest theyre shooting across a field at each other and its a good distance...close enough that they could hear germans singing at night but far enough that no one was really scoring significant hits
 
KMM696 said:
Mine has the annoying habit of spraying brass any direction it wants, and I still don't have a handload that will reliably work the gas system, but other than that, it's a lot of fun.
Click to expand...

I use 110gr. pulled surplus bullets, on top of 15gr of H110 with a Winchester primer. This load feels and hits exactly the same as the LC surplus ammo I have.
 
Adam_MA said:
I use 110gr. pulled surplus bullets, on top of 15gr of H110 with a Winchester primer. This load feels and hits exactly the same as the LC surplus ammo I have.
Click to expand...

This is good info. I'm definitely going to reload this round. It's getting harder to find 30 cal ammo at a decent price. The NY guys at the gun show this weekend sold out by Saturday afternoon.
 

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