Healey "closing the loophole" letter to gun dealers

[Boman]

where is this?

https://www.change.org/p/charles-ba...source=share_for_starters&utm_medium=copyLink

 

[Wally1775]

where is this?

https://www.change.org/p/charles-ba...tm_source=petitions_share&utm_medium=copylink

 

[84ta406]

So do I need to FA10 my lowers tonight? Just got on and Im not reading 80+ pages

 

[pcgod]

You don't understand how ****ed up the MA gun registration system is. This isn't like the revenue machine at the RMV.

This isn't about entering the data for a few weeks" its about having a system that flags people, and then reports it to another system, etc.

For starters, even based on make and model, how can someone tell whether or not that gun, as configured, violates the law?

Also, consider the data contamination- guns in MA's system are never disposed of. So if you buy 100 guns and sell them all, the system still says you own 100 guns. So they're going to suspend people's drivers license renewals for guns they don't own? MA's system, as currently configured, is not set up to provide clean data.

-Mike

Folks, The truth may be in the middle. Mike is correct IMHO, if they want all the Post-Ban firearms turned in they really can't manage it. BUT....they can pass a "DIRECTIVE" that basically makes taking your AR to the range a crime. This "DIRECTIVE" may make you a criminal but they aren't going door to door. Remember a couple of states have demanded registration of these types of weapons and they pretty much know they had little compliance. They haven't started door to door searches in those places. They simply are screwing with legal gun owners.

While this is serious, I am waiting to see how this plays out.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

She is gay, progressive, and doesn't care for the rule of law. She'll fit right in.

By the time Clinton is done packing her adminstration with M******* politicians, the rest of the country will want a Constitutional Amendment to nuke MA.

And, they'd get it with an easy majority.....maybe three state shy of unanimity.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

signed and called Baker's office earlier. The aid took down all my info and said they were going to present everything to the Governor.

 

[10thSFFD]

Signed.

 

[drgrant]

Irrelevant. What is not built is not illegal and only becomes banned under this definition once assembled. I can use it for an xmas decoration for a decade if I so wish and it will never be a firearm under MA SETTLED LAW.

Of course if the AGs hula hoop chicken neck jive turkey shit ends up standing as "law" (and I use this term loosely, like as in loosely holding a paper towel with cat puke stains on it) then the concept of "settled law" becomes "Whatever the AG wants the law to mean today" .. All she has to do is write another "strongly worded letter" about how lowers are now part of the AWB, "cuz she said so". Then even more pant shitting will ensue and we'll have more people in this thread doing the verbal equivalent of this:




-Mike

 

[calsdad]

If the prosecution's burden of proof still applies after today then logically, any FA-10 filed less than 7 days post AG's declaration should be fine as the burden would be on the state to prove the rifle was assembled after the AG's declaration?

Here's a question maybe one of the legal minds can answer.

How the hell are you supposed to "comply" with a law - when you don't even know it exists?

As pointed out a number of times in this thread - this whole thing is only seemingly showing up on the Boston Globe site (although I'm sure it will be on the news tonite).

But I don't watch the news. And I don't read the Globe anymore. So technically - how the fu(k am I supposed to know that the "law" (I'll put that in quotes from now on) - even changed?

I've always been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse - well I'm not ignorant of th "law" - I was pretty familiar with the damn law the way it was very clearly laid out before and I complied with it.

I know there's people out there who still don't know about the MA change in the damn FID cards for crying out loud.

 

[hedgehound]

Here's a question maybe one of the legal minds can answer.

How the hell are you supposed to "comply" with a law - when you don't even know it exists?

As pointed out a number of times in this thread - this whole thing is only seemingly showing up on the Boston Globe site (although I'm sure it will be on the news tonite).

But I don't watch the news. And I don't read the Globe anymore. So technically - how the fu(k am I supposed to know that the "law" (I'll put that in quotes from now on) - even changed?

I've always been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse - well I'm not ignorant of th "law" - I was pretty familiar with the damn law the way it was very clearly laid out before and I complied with it.

I know there's people out there who still don't know about the MA change in the damn FID cards for crying out loud.

Ignorantia juris non excusat.

 

[10thSFFD]

I am in.

 

[4runner1443]

Signed 1280 now.

 

[FPrice]

And I'll be moving back to MA in less than 6 months.

Don't do it, it's a trap!

 

[Stryker]

Just signed petition - up to 1330

 

[browncoat]

Here's a question maybe one of the legal minds can answer.

How the hell are you supposed to "comply" with a law - when you don't even know it exists?

As pointed out a number of times in this thread - this whole thing is only seemingly showing up on the Boston Globe site (although I'm sure it will be on the news tonite).

But I don't watch the news. And I don't read the Globe anymore. So technically - how the fu(k am I supposed to know that the "law" (I'll put that in quotes from now on) - even changed?

I've always been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse - well I'm not ignorant of th "law" - I was pretty familiar with the damn law the way it was very clearly laid out before and I complied with it.

I know there's people out there who still don't know about the MA change in the damn FID cards for crying out loud.

The point is to get dealers to stop selling them. Everything else is a happy side effect (from her point of view)

 

[SteelShooter]

https://www.change.org/p/charles-ba...tm_source=petitions_share&utm_medium=copylink

Thanks. A little disheartening to see the petition to buy a goat has 110K signatures and we have 1300

 

[Rider]

And, they'd get it with an easy majority.....maybe three state shy of unanimity.

I'd vote for it, and I live here.

 

[Prepper]

Here's a question maybe one of the legal minds can answer.

How the hell are you supposed to "comply" with a law - when you don't even know it exists?

As pointed out a number of times in this thread - this whole thing is only seemingly showing up on the Boston Globe site (although I'm sure it will be on the news tonite).

But I don't watch the news. And I don't read the Globe anymore. So technically - how the fu(k am I supposed to know that the "law" (I'll put that in quotes from now on) - even changed?

I've always been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse - well I'm not ignorant of th "law" - I was pretty familiar with the damn law the way it was very clearly laid out before and I complied with it.

I know there's people out there who still don't know about the MA change in the damn FID cards for crying out loud.

Well, the statists will of course say "ignorance of the law is no excuse". It used to be an excuse, back in the old days where they also had to show criminal intent to violate it, not just accidentally do something that harmed no one and they didn't know a "law" was written about it. And, it is literally impossible to know and comply with all the law. Even a super computer 1,000,000X times more powerful than anything we have now, combined with artificial intelligence technology we don't have yet and merged with a human's mind couldn't comply.

 

[sixer]

...
I know there's people out there who still don't know about the MA change in the damn FID cards for crying out loud.

Mine says "Valid until suspended or revoekd (sic)"

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

ive seen comments from people from out of state, they think its just pulling guns from shelves nothing more. A few have said the part about making us felons is wrong or fear mongering.

 

[drgrant]

Interesting points. However your part about make/model is irrelevant. The edict from today states they are all illegal, configuration notwithstanding.

It is perfectly relevant because how the **** does the system know I have an "assault weapon" without recognizing make and model? How is it going to flag the guns?

I buy a rifle called a Super Zagnut, it's checked off as low capacity. How does the system know whether or not it is a banned gun? It doesn't.

Regarding buying 100 and selling them, an FA-10 is supposed to be submitted upon that transfer.

Wrong. Not in every circumstance. If I outbound those guns FA-10s are not filed. Or if the dealer buys them from me and sells them on gunbroker. No FA10s filed there.

While some may not, most likely have been logged. Maybe they will just start from when they only allowed the eFA-10. That data is MOST CERTAINLY query-able in a db. I

It is queryable but it is a ****ing mess. That's the part you don't understand.

As far as the data contamination, if that's true then yes it would (thankfully) be a lot of work to try and do something like this.

I'm not saying this is going to happen tomorrow, but every time there is an erosion of rights (or a damn avalanche like today), it moves the concept a few notches from "tinfoil" to "quite possible".

The only way this would become less than a Tinfoiler phantasm it currently is if the legislature decides to completely **** gun owners and fund a bill that demands confiscation or something like that. This AG stuff is an annoyance; but if the legislature voted for this we would be genuinely ****ed.

-Mike

 

[hedgehound]

Well, the statists will of course say "ignorance of the law is no excuse". It used to be an excuse, back in the old days where they also had to show criminal intent to violate it, not just accidentally do something that harmed no one and they didn't know a "law" was written about it. And, it is literally impossible to know and comply with all the law. Even a super computer 1,000,000X times more powerful than anything we have now, combined with artificial intelligence technology we don't have yet and merged with a human's mind couldn't comply.

The worst part is the"discretion" in prosecution.

 

[Boman]

Thanks. A little disheartening to see the petition to buy a goat has 110K signatures and we have 1300

Admin should maybe make a sticky with an announcement. I am fairly sure not everyone has seen the petition

 

[strightleg]

Signed here is the reply from Mr. Ross
I share your disappointment and am very surprised by the actions of the AG. Like you, I have only heard of this today, and am seeking more information and clarification on her decision.
Regards,
Richard Ross

 

[JJ4]

If someone here made that petition on change.org, can you please edit the grammar?

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

Admin should maybe make a sticky with an announcement. I am fairly sure not everyone has seen the petition

also if you have a facebook page, share it to your page.

 

[180 GRAIN FMJ]

Signed. now up to 1,449

 

[calsdad]

So what the hell does this mean?

Application of this Enforcement Notice
(dealers licensed under G.L. c. 140, § 122):
The Guidance will not be applied to
future possession,ownership or transfer of Assault weapons
by dealers, provided that the dealer has written evidence that the weapons were
transferred to the dealer in the Commonwealth
prior to July 20, 2016, and provided further that a transfer made
after July 20, 2016, if any, is
made to persons or businesses in states where such weapons are
legal. Application of this Enforcement Notice
(individual gun owners):
The Guidance will not be applied to possession, ownership or transfer of an
Assault weapon obtained prior to July 20, 2016
.
The AGO reserves the right to alter or amend this guidance
.

So I'm reading this as legally nebulous.

"Before" July 20, 2016 would be YESTERDAY (12AM last nite) - "After July 20, 2016" - would be TOMORROW (12AM tonite)

So what about today - does no law apply?

And what about this statememt:

Application of this Enforcement Notice
(individual gun owners):
The Guidance will not be applied to possession, ownership or transfer of an
Assault weapon obtained prior to July 20, 2016[

Seems like they're saying that private sales are still ok.

 

[10thSFFD]

Well, the statists will of course say "ignorance of the law is no excuse". It used to be an excuse, back in the old days where they also had to show criminal intent to violate it, not just accidentally do something that harmed no one and they didn't know a "law" was written about it. And, it is literally impossible to know and comply with all the law. Even a super computer 1,000,000X times more powerful than anything we have now, combined with artificial intelligence technology we don't have yet and merged with a human's mind couldn't comply.

I have to rain on your parade. Even back then, after Second World War, after which everybody had a gun in my European country of 20 million people, it took 1 year to clean all weapons. No computers, no databases. just plain pressure, stress and jail time.

 

[Jason Flare]

You don't understand how ****ed up the MA gun registration system is. This isn't like the revenue machine at the RMV.

This isn't about entering the data for a few weeks" its about having a system that flags people, and then reports it to another system, etc.

For starters, even based on make and model, how can someone tell whether or not that gun, as configured, violates the law?

Also, consider the data contamination- guns in MA's system are never disposed of. So if you buy 100 guns and sell them all, the system still says you own 100 guns. So they're going to suspend people's drivers license renewals for guns they don't own? MA's system, as currently configured, is not set up to provide clean data.

-Mike

Because Erdogan's purge used clean data...