Gun locked in car on school grounds, legal?

[ItalianBostonian]

As the title says. I know I cant carry in any schools, but can I lock the gun in my car in a lockbox in the trunk and have my car parked on school grounds?

 

[jdubois]

Yes, a gun locked in your car does not violate C.269 § 10(j)

 

[M1911]

Yes, but you'll need to have unloaded it and put in the lockbox before having entered school grounds.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=711785&postcount=17

Note, as well, that some chief's may take a dim view of locking a gun in an unattended vehicle, and might decide such a person is unsuitable.

 

[ItalianBostonian]

Thanks very much for the quick answers!

 

[scouter-rick]

I saw this question answered by GOAL during a discussion concerning an incident with a couple guys taking a shortcut across a campus, it was either Bridgewater State or Massasoit (Can't recall which). GOAL's response was as follows (Quotes exactly):

"GOAL would never, ever, advocate taking a gun onto any school grounds without getting prior written permission.

The actual language of the law is found in Chapter 269, section 10 of the general laws, in paragraph (j).
(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, “firearm” shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.

Any officer in charge of an elementary or secondary school, college or university or any faculty member or administrative officer of an elementary or secondary school, college or university failing to report violations of this paragraph shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and punished by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars.



What a person transporting guns across the campus is risking that the arresting officer would not believe that you can transport without carrying on your person. Semantics, I know... and one ought to be able to carry, but we would not advise anyone to be the test case!! and that is what we are talking about here.



GOAL STAFF"


Sounded like this one was worthy of sharing.

-Rick

 

[ItalianBostonian]

Thanks Rick.

 

[vellnueve]

Like jdubois and M1911 said. Especially the part where it has to be locked in the trunk BEFORE you enter school grounds.

Me, I'd never even try it.

 

[M1911]

Me, I'd never even try it.

Agreed. Too much risk for my taste. Park off of school grounds if possible. Or just leave the gun at home.

 

[jdubois]

Agreed. Too much risk for my taste. Park off of school grounds if possible. Or just leave the gun at home.

Yup, we're all agreed on that. Due to the 'think of the children' nature of the situation, it could easily lead to legal headaches even though you were 100% in the right.

 

[KMaurer]

Actually, I do it all the time, since I have to frequently visit college campuses. I've been doing it since long before the '98 rewrite of the laws without any problems. The reality is that nobody is going to prove I'm storing and/or transporting a firearm without a warrant, and the anti-gun licensing authorities would use the fact that somebody managed to get a warrant to label one as not suitable. [I swear that this forum tends to be bipolar. One day people are all "from my cold dead hands" and "Μολὼν λαβέ", the next they shiver at the thought of getting caught within 1000 yards of any school property with so much as an NRA or GOAL membership card, much less an LTC.]

Ken

 

[vellnueve]

Different situation for those who are students or employees. It's not just the MGLs, it's the policies of the school.

As for being near a school, I used to live across the street from two of them. Literally less than 30 yards away, with another less than a block away.. No big deal, thanks to the exemptions in the federal Victim Disarmament Zone Act (private property, and licensed by local LE)

 

[M1911]

I swear that this forum tends to be bipolar. One day people are all "from my cold dead hands" and "Μολὼν λαβέ", the next they shiver at the thought of getting caught within 1000 yards of any school property with so much as an NRA or GOAL membership card, much less an LTC.

I think you may find that the "cold dead hands" poster are not necessarily the same posters who are recommending the belt-and-suspenders approach to avoid attracting the attention of the local gendarmes.

 

[jdubois]

I swear that this forum tends to be bipolar. One day people are all "from my cold dead hands" and "Μολὼν λαβέ", the next they shiver at the thought of getting caught within 1000 yards of any school property with so much as an NRA or GOAL membership card, much less an LTC.

I, at least, post very conservatively on the law forums, as I'm trying to present the 'least likely to get you in legal trouble' angle. I think it's the best way to approach legal questions. People can then decide on their own how much legal risk they're willing to take.

 

[scouter-rick]

I would truly hate to ever find out that someone loses their LTC or worse because we gave them a comfortable feeling about an area that may be misinterpreted. The fact is that if MA Firearms Law was clear and understandable then we would not have folks among us who make their living around the subject.

-Rick

 

[vellnueve]

I agree. If someone looks for a legal interpretation, I tend to go conservative in the interpretation.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well Rick, et al:

The problem (alluded to above) is that Bridgewater State College (or whatever they call it these days) has a STATE HWY that literally runs right thru the campus and BSC's PD does patrol it and IIRC they do give out tickets to violators (including non-students) as they are specifically allowed to by statute (state school, etc.).

So are some advocating that they can't drive on the State Hwy thru the campus with guns in the trunk?

Each has to make their own decision on something like this.

[Although I've never heard/read it mentioned, one could make the same case wrt NU and Rte. 9 and perhaps BU and Comm Ave. However, being private schools they don't do traffic stops and give out tickets, search cars driving by.]

 

[jdubois]

So are some advocating that they can't drive on the State Hwy thru the campus with guns in the trunk?

I don't think anybody was advocating that somebody couldn't transport a gun in a vehicle while on school property. We've already established that it is legal to do so. The further discussion was on whether it was generally a good idea or not.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't think anybody was advocating that somebody couldn't transport a gun in a vehicle while on school property. We've already established that it is legal to do so. The further discussion was on whether it was generally a good idea or not.

OK, but I'd guarantee you that most LEOs would believe transporting guns thru a campus or leaving them in your car parked on campus was illegal and would act as such (arrest and let the court sort it out).

The trick is to never have any LEO know that you possess them anywhere that you are (e.g. concealed in car, concealed on person, etc.)!

 

[ItalianBostonian]

The school in question has their own lot visitors have to park in, and there is no where else to park so this is why the question came up.

 

[KMaurer]

IMHO, the way to explain the law to people without tempting them into situations that will come back to bite them is to tell them the truth, not attempt to keep them safe by telling tales of trolls and dragons. Don't say that the law isn't clear or that you could read it several different ways. While that's true in some cases, in most cases the law is a clear as these things get. Tell them what the law says, but then caution them that people in a position to enforce the laws can be expected to know all the details of every law they're expected to enforce. The result is that in situations where they're not exactly on top of the law, they my be inclined to arrest or cite, then let the prosecutors or the courts deal with it. Since that's not something you want to happen to you, know exactly where the line is, then stay well away from it unless you've got a very good reason. It makes more sense than to tell them that the line is fuzzy or moves around with the tides.

Ken

 

[theGringo]

I've pondered this matter over the past 24 hours and decided that if I want to shoot after work (a school), I'll take my gun to work. It'll be cased and locked, and the case itself cable locked to a tie-down in the back of the car. Ammo will be stored apart from the case, in a separate locked container. It's the best I can do.

I'm not driving 30 miles south to get my gun, and 20 miles back north to shoot.

I don't see that the law prohibits this, and screw what people might think think.

 

[jdubois]

Tell them what the law says, but then caution them that people in a position to enforce the laws can be expected to know all the details of every law they're expected to enforce. The result is that in situations where they're not exactly on top of the law, they my be inclined to arrest or cite, then let the prosecutors or the courts deal with it..

Agreed. And if you go back and read the thread, that's exactly what we were doing. We first established that it was legal. Then GOAL was quoted saying that there is risk due to LEO who may not know the law. Then we agreed there was risk and we might avoid the situation all together. Then you said you didn't think the risk was great enough to be concerned with. That all seemed fine to me, so I'm not sure what your beef is exactly.

 

[Ripach]

I've pondered this matter over the past 24 hours and decided that if I want to shoot after work (a school), I'll take my gun to work. It'll be cased and locked, and the case itself cable locked to a tie-down in the back of the car. Ammo will be stored apart from the case, in a separate locked container. It's the best I can do.

I'm not driving 30 miles south to get my gun, and 20 miles back north to shoot.

I don't see that the law prohibits this, and screw what people might think think.

+1 Gringo, I'd do the same.

 

[vellnueve]

Never been an issue for me because school and range were in completely opposite directions.

If you're going to do it, print out a copy of the applicable MGLs and keep it in your case, just for the hell of it.

 

[Clarence E. Floyd]

The 1.000 foot rule.

Looking at the Federal gun laws, I see that the 1,000 foot law is still in there as it pertains to schools. I'm sitting in a library right now that has a property line that is adjacent to that of a school. I left it at home. As Arnold would say, "I don't feel lucky today." I suppose it's all according to who wants to nail you and how bad. In some towns, driving onto school property and looking suspicious can get one pulled over and maybe searched. In this day and age, going anywhere near a school with a gun, is asking for trouble in my opinion whether it's locked unloaded in a container that's also locked in the trunk or not. But I'm not your mother either.

 

[jdubois]

Looking at the Federal gun laws, I see that the 1,000 foot law is still in there as it pertains to schools.

18 USC 44 § 922(q) only applies to people who don't have a CCW license and are carrying loaded guns on public or school property.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It'll be cased and locked, and the case itself cable locked to a tie-down in the back of the car.

If it's a semi-auto handgun, you may wish to consider taking the barrel with you (or the bolt if it's rifle) so that, in the event it is stolen, you can truthfully say that inoperable parts of a gun that cannot be made to fire were stolen - much less newsworty than "gun and ammo stolen from school".

 

[USMA-82]

Well, some states actually pass logical laws.

While vacationing in Virginia a couple of years ago, I had a conversation about the State's gun laws with a gun shop owner. Apparently, in Virginia a lawful gun owner can carry on school grounds as long as he remains in the car. Instead of the riskier "unholster, unload, lock in the case, secure in the trunk" scenario, a parent who wants to drop their kid off at school just.... drops the kid off at school. Stay in the car - no harm, no foul.

Of course, that would be too scary to consider in the Commiewealth of Massivetwoshits.

 

[jdubois]

Apparently, in Virginia a lawful gun owner can carry on school grounds as long as he remains in the car.

That sounded too reasonable to be true. I just had to check up on it

No loaded handguns on school property, excepting (among a few other things) "a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school." (V.C. § 18.2-308.1)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I've pondered this matter over the past 24 hours and decided that if I want to shoot after work (a school)

Given the state you are in, and the political climate, you probably already recognized that getting caught (including a break-in of your car) will result in termination and it is unlikely your union (if any) can protect you.