So I just finished a fire arms training course & I went to apply for a gun license and the cop at Lowell station saw that I had a DUI from 12 years ago and told me to not even bother to applying because it was a waste of money and would be denied . I decided to not move forward at that moment. Any suggestions moving forward on how to get a license ?
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Gun license & DUI
- Thread starter Alexstout
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Whole lot of variables in there that would need to be looked at. Best advice is get an attorney that knows what they’re doing re: 2A.
I know many people in MA with 1st time OUI’s who were able to get licensed later in life.
I know many people in MA with 1st time OUI’s who were able to get licensed later in life.
your firearms training instructor did not bring this up at all ?
1st offense ? Accident or injury ? Did you get jail time ?
As others say , lawyer up.
I contacted a lawyer when I had to renew my license in 2002 as I let it lapse then moved to a new town. Although I have no convictions I did get into trouble as a juvenile good thing is my record is squeaky clean from post 19 years old.
lowbuckbob
NES Member
Sorry - doesn't look good
Alex is prohibited but others can learn from this.
If you get busted - lawyer up and try to get a CWOF instead of going to court and losing badly.
Many 1st time OUI's can result in a CWOF if you get a good lawyer.
I know a friend of a friend who got busted.
He simply pleaded guilty to be done with it.
Don't ever do that.
It was his 1st offense and if he lawyered up, he may have just gotten a CWOF.
Now he has a serious charge on his record.
Not sure if he will ever want a gun but now he wont get one legally.
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CWOF + 24D alcohol diversion program is a standard deal for first offense OUIs without injury. BUT... go pro-se and the judge may get mad you are not paying an attorney and hit you with a conviction.
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If your conviction (date of offense, not conviction at trial date) in MA is on or after after 5/27/1994 the offense was a 2.5 year maximum misdemeanor in MA.
BUT.... 18 USC 922(g) defines anything with a possible sentence > 2 years to be a felony for the purpose of firearms prohibition, therefore:
- You are federally banned from possessing, or even temporarily handling, guns or ammo in any state or territory of the US for life. And no, the federal courts do not tend to plead away "felon in possession" charges or issue alternative non-confinement sentences.
- The feds will NOT recognize a restoration of gun rights by the MA Firearms License Review Board (FLRB) due to a bastardized interpretation of Logan v. US.
- Option A: Governor's pardon WITH "includes restoration of firearms rights" checked on the pardon form. This option is present to allow people to get "clean records" from a pardon and still remain state and federally prohibited. All you need to do is convince the governor you are worth a Boston Globe article about how he is soft on OUI offenders and felons.|
- Option B: Get the case re-opened and closed with a non-conviction disposition
Only if it was not in MA; before May 27, 1994 in MA, or the disposition was non-conviction. MA OUI CWOFs are structured to have many of the penalties of a conviction without the burden of an actual conviction, except when it comes to predicate offense OUI sentencing in future cases or CDLs (commercial driving licenses). In those later two instances, an CWOF is treated as if it were a conviction.
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I left out something about the friend of a friend...
His passenger was injured.
Even with a lawyer, he would be screwed, I guess.
With all that is at stake for gun owners, it worries me when I see fellow gun owners drinking.
I don't think a buzz outside of the home is worth it when your life can be so easily ruined.
His passenger was injured.
Even with a lawyer, he would be screwed, I guess.
With all that is at stake for gun owners, it worries me when I see fellow gun owners drinking.
I don't think a buzz outside of the home is worth it when your life can be so easily ruined.
sorry, but a guilty by jury makes you a federally prohibited person
I am not giving you legal advice, just my personal opinion IANAL
your only way out is to go find a damn good lawyer and go back in to court claiming ineffective counsel
What type of a Lawyer takes their client to trial on a first time DWI?
Unless you had a record a mile long before the DWI,or there were other charges such as leaving the scene after causing personal injury, the safety net is a CWOF, court costs, license suspension, and drunk school/fees
Come up with a boatload of cash, and call one of the great firearms lawyers that frequent this forum
One of them gave a opinion already replying to your post
I will caution you that if you get a Judge to toss out the original conviction on the grounds of ineffective counsel , and he/she imposes a CWOF, you will PROBABLY lose your license for a while and have other associated ramifications like the 24D program, etc. The fact you had a license suspension before won't factor in.
Getting the charges tossed and re adjudicated may get you off the hook WRT the Federal "misdafelony" , but you are still looking at suitability issues with the licensing authority. You can be denied without an effective way of challenging the denial even if you get the DWI resolved.
I am not giving you legal advice, just my personal opinion IANAL
your only way out is to go find a damn good lawyer and go back in to court claiming ineffective counsel
What type of a Lawyer takes their client to trial on a first time DWI?
Unless you had a record a mile long before the DWI,or there were other charges such as leaving the scene after causing personal injury, the safety net is a CWOF, court costs, license suspension, and drunk school/fees
Come up with a boatload of cash, and call one of the great firearms lawyers that frequent this forum
One of them gave a opinion already replying to your post
I will caution you that if you get a Judge to toss out the original conviction on the grounds of ineffective counsel , and he/she imposes a CWOF, you will PROBABLY lose your license for a while and have other associated ramifications like the 24D program, etc. The fact you had a license suspension before won't factor in.
Getting the charges tossed and re adjudicated may get you off the hook WRT the Federal "misdafelony" , but you are still looking at suitability issues with the licensing authority. You can be denied without an effective way of challenging the denial even if you get the DWI resolved.
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Asaltweapon
NES Member
No LTC for you but I know a few guys who got their FID.
I was at an oui presentation where one of the panelists, a district court judge, stated there is no risk to taking an oui first to trial.
It all depends on the jury. A jury full of madd mothers would convict you if the cop testified that he smelled alcohol.
Many other juries think "There but for the grace of god ..."
Ron Jablonski
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Can't stress this enough, don't get that first offense! Refuse all field tests and breathalyzer. Don't say anything. Just keep your mouth shut, let them arrest you and then get bailed out and call a lawyer ASAP. Losing your license for 6 months is better than having a OUI charge for the rest of your life. If you think dealing a first offense is bad, try getting a second or third.
nstassel
NES Member
I shouldn't have written such a brief answer but it was late. Mr. Boudrie wrote a detailed answer that explained exactly why no FID is feasible. But on the books, an FID is possible five years after completion of probation or jail sentence for certain misdemeanors. The police are now revoking or not reissuing these FIDs that are out there based on this five year restoration of rights. Time will tell whether the Courts will fix this issue but it's far from perfect even if they do bc the holder still will be federally prohibited so they won't pass a background check.
nstassel
NES Member
Who said that?
I never say never, but it's very rare that an oui case is so weak I'd recommend a trial and those i can usually get a non oui plea.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Same judge who heard the Gerhardt case in the District Court.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
It depends on the disposition of the case. You have no history on any of it so, to say NO LTC is just plain incorrect
ATF's interpretation of the Felon in Possesion statute is not law. Healey's interpretation of the AWB is not law.I comment on what is, not what should be![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
A police chief (through FRB) will deny an FID based on ATF's interpretation, but I've been successful overturning those denials in court by pointing out to the judge that the law states my client's right was restored.
FFLs refuse to transfer AR15's because Healey says they can't. Unfortunately, there's no legal appeal of that decision because the FFL is not the gubmint.
OP could argue that his lawyer never warned him that a guilty finding would strip him of his constitutional rights, and had he known, he would have taken a CWOF. There's really no basis in law for that argument, but it's worked before.
I will bow to your superior professional knowledge as you ARE a lawyer, but from the IANAL chair
I know you have said in the past that you had obviously not guilty clients who refused a CWOF go to trial and be convicted, but for the sake of conversation, hypothetically, a client that insists on a trial rather than a CWOF, and skips the option of a bench trial and lays out all the dough to take it to a jury must have had to so as a last resort, like the bench trial was going to be conducted by the late Hon. Francis P. Cullen of the Woburn District Court, a.k.a. "The Hanging Judge", who was memorable for two things, he had one arm, and God have mercy on you if you appeared before him on a D.W.I. charge because you were never going to be found not guilty in a bench trial.
I would disagree with the Judge who said there is no risk, as from the OP's situation the risk of a conviction makes him a PP.
To the OP, did your lawyer explain to you that a guilty finding at trial would result in your 2A rights being revoked for life in all 50 states?
Did he explain to you that asking for a C.W.O.F. would mitigate some of the damage?
Did you insist on taking it to Trial or did your Attorney?
Was a C.W.O.F. discussed?
I know of a person who was going to plead guilty to a first time DWI in order to try to get a leaving the scene charge dropped.
It was a pile on charge because the person stumbled away after hitting a parked car.
They were guilty way beyond a reasonable doubt, there was no way to refute the evidence even without a B.A.C. test.
During a break the person asked the local prosecutor not to object to dropping the leaving the scene charge if during the appearance he was asked,
even though the D.A.'s office was prosecuting, the Judge had a habit of asking the local department's prosecutor for his opinion if he was in the courtroom.
The local prosecutor, who was no friend of the accused asked who the lawyer was, and then told the person to go get him and bring him up to the rail.
The local cop proceeded to ream the lawyer a new rear facing bodily orifice, asking why he was serving up a first time DWI client to the Judge with a guilty plea when he knew damn well they would drop the leaving the scene and CWOF the DWI.
Needless to say, the new strategy was a motion to dismiss the leaving the scene, which was granted, and a C.W.O.F. was entered on the D.W.I. charge with a 45 day loss of license, having to go to drunk school, the brain injury lecture and trust fund payment, and a $500 dollars license reinstatement fee.
BTW the Lawyer involved is no longer licensed to practice, the Mass Bar Association pulled his ticket for some unethical conduct regarding client funds. IMHO not a loss to the legal community.
nstassel
NES Member
There are people who know what they are talking about who have taken their time to write responses. He CAN NOT possess a firearm. He CAN NOT get an ltc unless things get fixed. Comprende?
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
Then why, are there people with DUI/OUI CWOF with LTC's?
allen-1
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