Gun Industry / Gun shop discussion megathread

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I think small shops could do well by keeping a list to match used guns with people looking for those guns.

I'm not talking about used M&P40c but stuff that is hard to come by in this state. For example if a guy wants to trade in his Desert Eagle. The shop could refer to that list and then make a few calls, perhaps selling it or taking a pass because they don't have an interested buyer at the time.
The problem with that is you have to keep the list up to date, then you're going to waste more time calling idiots who say "I am down to buy XXXX at any time. Just call me." You give them a call and get hit with "oh, man...that's awesome....BUT....I just had these car repairs and blah, blah, blah. Can you maybe buy the gun and keep it for a month in the back room? I'll be in to get it then, honest Injun."

Most people want instant gratification when it comes to "wants" versus "needs". If they can't find X when they're looking for it, they'll turn around and get Y or so ammo or a fancy new handguard or something along those lines. They aren't good at saying "ok, this is my X money. I'm going to put it in the drawer and not touch it until X comes along."
 
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True but there are people who would buy. I looked for an Automag III for about 5-7 years on and off. Had a dealer taken my info and used it they would have had a sale. In fact I bought it from a dealer who had taken my info but not called and i just happened to walk in and see it.
In the 80s this might have been more difficult but today probably 2 min to search a pdf file and a few texts. Which could be done before a dealer agreed to purchase this taking into inventory something that was a sure bet or something they passed on because only a few people want one thus freeing up capital for other investments.
People in Ma looking for difficult to find firearms will more than likely find the $ when they come up. This modle would never work for free states.
 
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i was recently thinking about giant electronic stores: the wiz, circuit city, tweeter all going out of business. and then there's best buy that has managed to stick around even though their pricing is not competitive in general. i'd like to know how they're doing it.

Marketing,

I feel that best buy tries to market to everyone. Circuit city and Tweeter they were aiming for people who liked electronics. And we found we could do better [laugh]
 
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Marketing,

I feel that best buy tries to market to everyone. Circuit city and Tweeter they were aiming for people who liked electronics. And we found we could do better [laugh]
Best buy has been on the verge of bankruptcy for the past 5 years.
 
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I feel like I have to give a shout out to my LGS, Minuteman Armory in Templeton, MA. They are only open a few days a week, but they are nights and weekends so it's pretty easy for me to get there after work. The selection of merchandise is great, they have a line of shop-built custom ARs (15s and 10s now) for reasonable prices. They do transfers for $25 I think, and all of the staff are great guys. I've never walked in and been treated poorly or been blown off. They've only been around for a little less than a year, but in my mind, they are killing it. It's worth the trip out to see Morgan and the guys.
This is the very thing Mike didn't want but for the record I was there last week looking for a specific common item. Guess what? Didn't have it in stock. Could have ordered it. Purchased at the Wilmington Gun Show. Agree it's a nice shop and great people. If you want specific details PM me.
 

Rob Boudrie

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The problem with that is you have to keep the list up to date, then you're going to waste more time calling idiots who say "I am down to buy XXXX at any time. Just call me."
That's what SQL databii and automated email is for :)
 

M1911

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Perfect gun shop? Lew Hortons in Framingham, Colmans in Canton, Reileys in Hookset, KTP in Kittery, Tightlines in Bridgewater, Taylors in Plainville. Wait, the 80s are the distant past [sad2] nothing like these shops today. Even the two that are still in business...
Lew Hortons a perfect gun shop? They raped people on prices for new guns.
 

drgrant

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This is the very thing Mike didn't want but for the record I was there last week looking for a specific common item. Guess what? Didn't have it in stock. Could have ordered it. Purchased at the Wilmington Gun Show. Agree it's a nice shop and great people. If you want specific details PM me.
If someone wants to give props thats one thing, but I guess when I made that statement was I didn't want it to turn into a shit show where some specific shop gets named (rather bashed) then its a back and forth people pulling the white knight bit for their favorite shop, that sort of thing. Like those threads where someone basically bitches because the gun shop they just went to doesn't have a towel attendant in the bathroom, etc. [laugh]

-Mike
 
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Pugnax88

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Apologies fellas, just figured I'd throw out an example as I saw a lot of talk about shops having bankers hours and high transfer fees. Not trying to start any bashing or anything.
 

drgrant

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You guys don't have to censor that much, just don't want to see the syncopating BS where an argument evolves out of something meaningless. [laugh]
 
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I'm kind of new to this whole thing. I don't know about the good old days. I've been to half a dozen shops in the month or so of having my LTC. I find it strange that a place with over 1000 firearms doesn't stock more than 1 self defense 9mm round. Another store was selling an m&p22 for near sport 2 price, and all of their gun were similarly high. I bought some ammo there before I knew any better and paid 25% higher than I could have most other places. Also it would be great to have a web site that isn't a Facebook page, with a current inventory.

I have found some good places locally as well. They were both very busy the times I've visited. Take a number type feeling. But, when it was my turn they had competitive prices and were helpful to a new shooter.
 

Salyeica

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I'm new enough to not remember the good old days, either, but in visiting numerous LGS I've been able to piece together what prices seem out of line. Some places are reasonable, others not so much.

I'm in the liquor business, and we have been seeing it for some time with the NH pricing model. The person who will drive 30 min each way to the NH State store to save $2 on a bottle of Jack Daniel's will always be a moron. That person also will idle in line for 10 min at a gas station to save $0.03/gallon. That kind of stupid can't be fixed.

I can't speak for everyone, but I try to run my life like I would run a business. What are my fixed costs? Those seem to be going up. What is my discretionary spending budget? That seems to be going down. Most importantly, what's my time worth? If I know Shop X is going to be slammed on Saturday, I'll pay a little more at another so I can get in and out quickly. Grocery stores are the best example for me. MB has the best prices, but their stores are often s***shows. I'd rather pay $6 for the rotisserie chicken at S&S then $4 at MB if it will save me 20 minutes of my time.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I'm in the liquor business, and we have been seeing it for some time with the NH pricing model. The person who will drive 30 min each way to the NH State store to save $2 on a bottle of Jack Daniel's will always be a moron
An hour round drive to save $50 on a gun is a decent hourly return for many people, even factoring in the cost of driving.

When I hear vendors justifying their higher price for the convenience of buying from them, what I hear is "I choose not to be price competitive". Of course, with alcohol, the difference in state taxation and regulations may make that impossible.
 

Salyeica

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An hour round drive to save $50 on a gun is a decent hourly return for many people, even factoring in the cost of driving.

When I hear vendors justifying their higher price for the convenience of buying from them, what I hear is "I choose not to be price competitive". Of course, with alcohol, the difference in state taxation and regulations may make that impossible.
Correct on $50. I'd prob do the same. I guess I was referring more to the guy spending 4 hours driving around to save $20, or $1/box on ammo.

The difference in the liquor industry is that although it's very highly regulated, there are still a lot of stores, so you have your convenience option and you have your price option, both generally nearby. NH is an animal unto itself, because on the liquor side it is a two-tier system, meaning there is no mid-level wholesaler adding a layer of price to the product. In MA it's a three-tier system, with me as the oxygen thief (thanks, Drgrant). So prices will naturally be lower in NH.

Where it gets squirrelly is when a big national chain comes into the market and takes a scorched earth approach to its competition. Almost all national brands are priced at cost, with the goal of stealing every customer from every store in a 10 mile radius. With more than $2B in revenue nationally, these chains can afford to take that long term approach. Here are two examples: the best wholesale price on Smirnoff and Dewars is $17.99 and $27.99, respectively. That's what National Chain X sells those items for. Now, the guy selling them at $19.99 and $29.99 looks like he's dry fisting his customers, even though he's really only making 10% and 6.7% gross margin on those items. That's how quickly your local store can fold. Appear to be screwing your customers and they will leave. Margins in the liquor business aren't great, but they are blended together (smaller the size, higher the margin) so that the store can make a living.

I have no idea what the margins are for items in the firearms industry, but I assume certain products carry better margins than others, and it's all based on purchase volume. Truthfully, I like that Cabelas and Bass Pro don't have really low prices, because it gives other stores a chance to be competitive. Even though I know they could undercut every LGS if they wanted to. Then my local options would dry up, for the most part, and I'd be forced to drive 100/150 miles to do my shopping.
 

VTJPM

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I have one thing that drives me nuts, consignments. How can you justify taking 20% off of a firearm you did not have to stock? I understand how hard it is to find the capital to stock a modern gun shop. Some LGS are using lines of credit and then mark up new items only 10-15%. But consignments 20%! And when their is a run on guns and they have no inventory they ignore the obvious. Have customers bring in their guns they want to move. It's a win-win. They come into sell and probably buy something else. How about a flat 10%?
 

drgrant

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I have one thing that drives me nuts, consignments. How can you justify taking 20% off of a firearm you did not have to stock? I understand how hard it is to find the capital to stock a modern gun shop. Some LGS are using lines of credit and then mark up new items only 10-15%. But consignments 20%! And when their is a run on guns and they have no inventory they ignore the obvious. Have customers bring in their guns they want to move. It's a win-win. They come into sell and probably buy something else. How about a flat 10%?
They can justify it because it's their shop... and if the shop has gobs of consignments for sale the rate must not be that high. Why would I want to price a service way below what the market was willing to bear? 10 points on something like a used M&P is only like $35, which is probably similar or less than what they make on a new gun. That's the same kind of money you can make on a transfer with less administrative overhead. That said, if it was me I would probably have an inverted rate based on the value of the gun, and I would also reject some consignments outright- some of the junk people want to sell doesn't belong in a gun shop. Also, what people are dumping on consignments are not necessarily what I would be buying if I had capital to stock a gun shop, so your analogy kinda fails there. (for example there's always a disproportionate amount of dumped .40 S&W handguns, LMAO).

One big thing is I think more shops need a consignment listing system like the one FS has. You can "shop" without having to drive there.

-Mike
 

Shakeyfly

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Newbie LTC here and just following along with the thread... How does gunbroker work? It's used firearms correct? You purchase the firearm, go talk to your Local LGS about the transfer, have gunbroker send the firearm to them, pay gunbroker, pay LGS and you have the firearm?

I guess to add to the thread, I'm not familiar enough with what is causing a lot of these LGS' to go out of businesses, but I agree with what some others have written. I hate walking into a Gun shop, and already feeling like the kid without a seat in Cafeteria. I get talking to me and showing me guns is time consuming, but sometimes I really am just in there to feel the difference between a mossberg 500 and Remington 870 so I can start planning my purchase etc. and that initial interaction is what will determine if I buy from them or not.

My other hobby is fly fishing. all my money for that goes local. It might be a little bit more but I always justify it in my head, until in my mind the savings becomes significant.
 

Daveusow

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I hate gunshop lawyers spewing false information all over the place. Scaring customers that are new to the sport away, possibly for good. Arguing with me about mass laws, and they are 100% wrong. The owner says nothing to correct his employee. Worst of all, this shop hosts LenS with his mass laws for non lawyer class.
Owner should make his employees take it. Oh, forgot to mention the employee is also ex police.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Brin747

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I went into one of the shops in Hooksett one day with a friend who was looking for his first handgun. They had a S&W 6906 in the case, which my friend asked to look at, having shot mine and liked it. I remarked that it is one of my favorites and doofus behind the counter went off on how I must not know anything about guns and friend should buy a Glock or an HK. We left, and I have not been back despite having purchased several firearms there prior to that.

If you want to give your opinion on a particular firearm, go ahead. But, it's generally a bad idea to insult a customer over their opinion.
 

warwickben

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I think small shops could do well by keeping a list to match used guns with people looking for those guns.

I'm not talking about used M&P40c but stuff that is hard to come by in this state. For example if a guy wants to trade in his Desert Eagle. The shop could refer to that list and then make a few calls, perhaps selling it or taking a pass because they don't have an interested buyer at the time.
Befoer they closed ,
New England shooters warehouse knew I like Russian stuff .
A Nes member passed away and they got his guns to sell . I got a call about a Nagant pistol and they offered to hold it till I had the cash .
 
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I have one thing that drives me nuts, consignments. How can you justify taking 20% off of a firearm you did not have to stock?
20% does seem high. i rationalize that they are 1) lending real estate and that's not cheap, 2) providing services such as increased exposure, salesmanship, etc. although the few shops i've seen, consignment guns are treated like warts; so i don't know about the salesmanship aspect.

I'm starting to think that the perception of online savings is more than the actual savings. I regularly see deals in LGSs that are cheaper than Gunbroker - or for that matter cheaper than some of the classifieds here.
i think by online most people are referring to volume distributors, like bud's. not user generated classifieds.
 

VTJPM

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They can justify it because it's their shop... and if the shop has gobs of consignments for sale the rate must not be that high. Why would I want to price a service way below what the market was willing to bear? 10 points on something like a used M&P is only like $35, which is probably similar or less than what they make on a new gun. That's the same kind of money you can make on a transfer with less administrative overhead. That said, if it was me I would probably have an inverted rate based on the value of the gun, and I would also reject some consignments outright- some of the junk people want to sell doesn't belong in a gun shop. Also, what people are dumping on consignments are not necessarily what I would be buying if I had capital to stock a gun shop, so your analogy kinda fails there. (for example there's always a disproportionate amount of dumped .40 S&W handguns, LMAO).

One big thing is I think more shops need a consignment listing system like the one FS has. You can "shop" without having to drive there.

-Mike
OK. I wasn't talking about reselling crap! If I offer to put a Perazzi shotgun up for sale at around $4,000, I don't want to pay 20% i.e., $800 for hosting my gun. Then the poor SOB has to pay the sales tax to boot! Mike, I don't get your negativity. I don't know why I bother. Preaching to the choir is one thing. 47,972 post's of self grand standing is well grandstanding! Remember, I said these shops had crap for inventory, they weren't swamped with inventory. I have seldom seen you agree with a poster! Done, If he is a moderator, please burn my account!
 

Rob Boudrie

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One big thing is I think more shops need a consignment listing system like the one FS has. You can "shop" without having to drive there.
Last I checked Four Seasons was 18% consignment; 15% for very expensive guns, plus they will do a no obligation hold if one you see listed online catches your interest.
 

NickLeduc

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I enjoy a great website. I work 3rd shift so I like to browse. The majority of my gun purchases are done at shops that have pictures of their current stock. I want a full description of the firearm, what is included in price, and a picture. And Im not talking about a stock photo taken from S&W website. Call me a dummy, but I don't know what every model is. Pictures help me.
 
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