Gun Industry / Gun shop discussion megathread

spt_1955

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$35 for the first transfer and $15 for additional transfers on the same 4473 is typical here.
Really!! I bought a gun here on NES last month and the person wanted to transfer it at an FFL that charged $35 and I refused to pay. THe going rate is $25 in state and $45 for an out of state FFL/FFL transfer.
 

spt_1955

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I hate gunshop lawyers spewing false information all over the place. Scaring customers that are new to the sport away, possibly for good. Arguing with me about mass laws, and they are 100% wrong. The owner says nothing to correct his employee. Worst of all, this shop hosts LenS with his mass laws for non lawyer class.
Owner should make his employees take it. Oh, forgot to mention the employee is also ex police.


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I frequent a shop on the South Shore where it's the owner who is clueless. In fact it's rather suprising how many FFL's i've spoken to who have no clue as to what the laws are.
 

drgrant

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OK. I wasn't talking about reselling crap! If I offer to put a Perazzi shotgun up for sale at around $4,000, I don't want to pay 20% i.e., $800 for hosting my gun. Then the poor SOB has to pay the sales tax to boot! Mike, I don't get your negativity. I don't know why I bother. Preaching to the choir is one thing. 47,972 post's of self grand standing is well grandstanding! Remember, I said these shops had crap for inventory, they weren't swamped with inventory. I have seldom seen you agree with a poster! Done, If he is a moderator, please burn my account!
There's no negativity here, just a reality check. I wouldn't put a 4K perazzi on consignment at a gun shop anyways. That's a specialty gun and you're far better off listing it on gunbroker or gunsamerica, where the fees are tiny. BTW with the system I would have (if I had a shop) the "guy with the 4K perazzi" would make out pretty good because I wouldn't be collecting 20% from him. The problem with a gun like that is it would sit and collect dust in most gun shops, unless your shop is one of the very, very few, known to sell high end bird guns.

The shops you speak of with no inventory are probably tiny, and without some kind of a marketing spiel like the thing FS has where guns get listed, putting a bunch of stuff on consignment doesn't mean it's going to move, it just means its going to tie up space in your shop... and in MA this is a real issue... most gun shops in MA are the size of a shoebox.

Not sure where the butthurt is coming from, I'm just saying that any gun shop owner is going to laugh at you on a 10% consignment unless its a high dollar item- it's literally not worth the overhead to do that. Maybe 15+ years ago your gripes would be more warranted back when nobody had internet and there were very few alternatives for selling guns other than putting them in the newspaper or one of those trader mags like uncle henrys or whatnot. If the LGS consignment rate is too high for your blood there's always GB and GA, maybe another I'm forgetting offhand. Then you can keep most of the value for yourself. Consignment these days is for people too lazy to do that or don't want to deal with the BS, and you pay a price for that. I've sold lots of guns on consignment myself knowing that I'm going to lose 15-18% off the top. In a couple cases I actually got lucky and broke even or even made a tiny bit of cash. (because I got a good deal on a used gun. )

After you've allowed the smoke to come out of your ears you might want to look into what it actually costs an 01 or an 07 to run their shop. Even just keeping the lights on and keeping the licenses active is an expense, especially considering property in a place zoned for retail. Those costs have to be recovered somehow. Even the guys I know in shoebox type gun shops in MA who are lucky enough to get really cheap rent still have significant overhead.

I agree with you in the sense that I would love to put a gun on consignment for 10%- but I've also seen the industry enough to know that's not a realistic target for most shops, except possibly for high dollar items. It's not a sustainable model. You'd also have to do more things that would annoy the people consigning the guns, like rejecting their consignment outright on guns that are marginally desireable, otherwise that thing will be hanging around the shop (on the books) forever. At 15-20% if it burns up floor space for a year its not the end of the world. At 10% that gets old pretty fast.

Also bear in mind part of a consignment is the gun shop eats the "liability" of that gun. Part of one of the features of consigning a gun is that if you sell it and the buyer kills it a week later somehow joe fungohead isn't going to come yelling at you, you've paid the dealer to act as a buffer. A long time ago I sold a seecamp in perfect condition on consignment. Some guy bought it like 2 days later. I get paid. In talking to the shop owner casually about 2 weeks after that, I found out the guy who bought it somehow broke the thing, and the gun shop owner helped him get it repaired with seecamp free under warranty... but it was an entire hassle that I did not have to deal with. that's what your 15-20% is paying for on a consignment, to be free of aggravation and grief.

I am sorry that you are butthurt about my opinion on consignments. I'm not sure what I can do to remedy that. We can agree to disagree, I guess. Perhaps my view is a little different because I've been on both sides of the counter. This type of anger you are expressing here is similar to the disdain people express for shop X Y or Z when they get offered crap on a trade in, but usually when people are angry and stomping their feet about the fact that local gun shop XYZ only wants to give them $100 for their Ruger LC9 or even less for a Para Warthog- they are doing so without realizing the business realities of the situation. A gun shop isn't some kind of a charity or a handout. Even the most consumer friendly shops I know of, that do things like $20 (or even less!) transfers, and that kind of thing... at some point or another they all have to make money, otherwise it's pointless to be in business.

-Mike
 
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drgrant

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Really!! I bought a gun here on NES last month and the person wanted to transfer it at an FFL that charged $35 and I refused to pay. THe going rate is $25 in state and $45 for an out of state FFL/FFL transfer.
There is no defined "going rate", in my mind... shops in MA vary from $15-$50 (and pretty much anything above $45 is usually rapey and you're probably going to have other problems with that shop outside of the fee... ) As a seller if I mandated an FFL transfer I usually ate the fee or in some cases, the buyer offered to split it with me, but if I was picking the dealer I usually offered to pay it, in the interest of expediency. IMHO its bad form for a seller to demand that the buyer pay the transfer barring some exceptional circumstance. I think a few times I asked people to split if if I was bringing a gun to their local FFL from a long distance away, like over 50 miles, that kind of thing.

-Mike
 

warwickben

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Really!! I bought a gun here on NES last month and the person wanted to transfer it at an FFL that charged $35 and I refused to pay. THe going rate is $25 in state and $45 for an out of state FFL/FFL transfer.
I only ever paid 20$ for a transfers , for guns I've bought online or private sales ftf. I can see charging more if there shipping it out of state for you .
Also gotten a free transfer for my b day gift lol .

One thing that pisses me off , is when a dealer won't do a transfer for you because the online vendor sells it cheaper to me then the dealers distributors would sell it to him.
Why not just buy a few for your shop put a slight mark up on it . Beat other local guys prices and still make money ?
 

VTJPM

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Mike, Just about any gun that is "grandfathered" in MA is way up in value. I check FS website for all types of guns, including shotguns. So my point is a gun priced fair at a shop like that moves rather quickly.
jim
 

drgrant

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Mike, Just about any gun that is "grandfathered" in MA is way up in value. I check FS website for all types of guns, including shotguns. So my point is a gun priced fair at a shop like that moves rather quickly.
jim
Things like rifles and shotguns though, there is no "grandfathering" at all. That only applies to handgun compliance, and even that is sort of fungible.

I agree that fairly priced guns move quickly, but it's worth noting that a shop like FS probably has literally 5 times the foot traffic of most other shops. This level of exposure results in guns getting sold faster.

Let's say hypothetically if I open Joe Fungoehead's gun shop in Palmer, 2 minutes off I90, if I don't have a lot of foot traffic in that shop it's going to be awhile before guns get moved. For new shops to leverage consignments they should have some kind of listing system like what FS does.

-Mike
 

drgrant

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I only ever paid 20$ for a transfers , for guns I've bought online or private sales ftf. I can see charging more if there shipping it out of state for you .
Also gotten a free transfer for my b day gift lol .

One thing that pisses me off , is when a dealer won't do a transfer for you because the online vendor sells it cheaper to me then the dealers distributors would sell it to him.
Why not just buy a few for your shop put a slight mark up on it . Beat other local guys prices and still make money ?
Yup.... I call that the butthurt shop syndrome. If inbound transfers annoy them that much, then they should charge more money for them.

-Mike
 

Dream to Dream

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drgrant said:
Also bear in mind part of a consignment is the gun shop eats the "liability" of that gun.
This is a huge factor, with both consignments and trading in used guns. Sometimes a customer isn't the most honest person and is offloading a problem gun, or the gun has an unknown issue with it; either way, if the shop takes it and sells it, it's pretty much their problem now. A new gun with issues, no big deal, that's what warranties are for. But, a used gun may not be covered under warranty. The shop gets to make a choice: eat the cost of fixing it, or offer a refund. So, yeah, 10% doesn't usually cut it.
 

VTJPM

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Sorry about the IT problem. Pre ban guns in MA have huge price increase ???. I saw a poster who wanted a AMT III which is .30 cal. carbine. I have one, Noah did some great work on it. I can't just give 20% just for holding it. I want to buy and sell my guns as "off the radar as I can." I think we all do. But as prices rise the owners should realize the profits. (So we can buy more toys). I think we would all like to use FFL's as often as possible. The fee they charge is reasonable when compared to having an unknown enter your home for a one time sale. But again, 18 - 20%, ouch. Jim
 
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VTJPM

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Have any one else thought about putting your firearms up for sale on consignment for 18%. Then when you want your firearm back. Pay a transfer fee! Yes friends, we are eating our own.
 
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Rob Boudrie

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The shop gets to make a choice: eat the cost of fixing it, or offer a refund. So, yeah, 10% doesn't usually cut it.
Or hang tough on "used guns as is" and face the wrath of the internet

. The fee they charge is reasonable when compared to having an unknown enter your home for a one time sale. But again, 18 - 20%, ouch. Jim
If your gun does not sell, I don't think 4 Seasons charges you any fee to get it back.

Part of the theory of consignment is that the wider exposure will get you a better price. Buyers in "no agent involved" deals (real estate or guns) immediately think "no brokerage or consignment fee, that means a better price for me" while the seller thinks "more money in my pocket". As a practical matter, a private sale is unlikely to get as much $$ as a sale to a widely exposed shop like 4 Seasons. If the consignment shop gets you 10% more, the effective consignment fee is about 9%.
 
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making a profit as a % of the selling price does not make sense to me anyway. not on most tips. not on consignment. it's a fixed service. i'm not sure how it relates to the selling price. if anything it should be prorated based on how long the item sat there, or how difficult it was to sell.
 
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Have any one else thought about putting your firearms up for sale on consignment for 18%. Then when you want your firearm back. Pay a transfer fee! Yes friends, we are eating our own.
So it's okay for you to take up case space for whatever length of time, have the shop try and pimp out your over priced bird gun, and then when you want it back they should spend more time running the required paperwork, all for free?

If I had a shop, you'd be the exact type of customer I wouldn't want.

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I think for me the hours are the big thing. I like to primarily shoot on Sundays. But I like to prepare during the week in the evening as I have basketball and soccer games I need to attend on Saturdays. So for me it is easier to get my ammo, if needed, during the week. Typically during the week I cannot get out of the house before 6pm. That doesn't leave a lot of options. So I either end up at Walmart if I want to deal with the aggravation of standing around for 15 minutes while they page the guy with the key to the ammo case or I end up at BPS where the ammo cases are open and I can select what I want. LGS' typically have less of a selection of brands as well.

Exception to the rule is this week I am actually hitting the range on Saturday. Got low on my .308 and .380 and didn't replenish right after last time plus I just picked up a 9mm this past week so I had to make an ammo run last night. Ended up at BPS for that. Again...wanted to go Wednesday and the hours said they closed at 8 so couldn't even make it there that night. Yesterday it worked out and I had the time but couldn't get out until 6:30. So if some nights places stayed open until 9 that would be great. Nothing I hat more than making it into a store 5 minutes before their posted closing time and then feeling rushed.
 
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1. Put gun on consignment at FS for 18% over what you really want for it.
2. Slip $40 to your favorite FS counterman
3. He pushes your gun to every mope coming through the door looking for something that they arent sure they are looking for.
4. ????
5. Drive immediately to the Cab or Banana, grab yourself a pizza and make it rain.

Its not rocket science.
 
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Who sells their guns.

The good shops have been the downfall of the crappy ones. In my area the Gun Room was basiclly the only shop that was local to me. Everyone knows their story. As soon as a few other shops opened up in the area they were done.
Gun shops need the same thing that every other business needs.
Good Customer Service
Knowledgeable sales people
Inventory
Competitive prices
Reasonable hours
A good website with inventory and prices
 
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So it's okay for you to take up case space for whatever length of time, have the shop try and pimp out your over priced bird gun, and then when you want it back they should spend more time running the required paperwork, all for free?

If I had a shop, you'd be the exact type of customer I wouldn't want.
jeez, would you charge people to window shop? or charge people to dispense information? or how about just charge people that walk into the shop because you'll have to sweep the dirt they dragged in? it's unbelievable how some people just expect free service!

i think it would be reasonable to charge a listing fee up front. probably less offensive than charging someone to transfer their own gun back to them. same money, different label.
 

greencobra

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at a shop like four seasons, the traffic is so high your gun usually sells in the first week. I know a lot of us here scan their used web page. they do that right too, it's usually updated at the end of each business day. carls got himself a good business model going, 18% isn't an issue with me. I'm sure there are tons of shops around the state just as efficient I don't know about, we only mostly hear about the bad ones more times than not.
 

slap shot

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1. Put gun on consignment at FS for 18% over what you really want for it.
2. Slip $40 to your favorite FS counterman
3. He pushes your gun to every mope coming through the door looking for something that they arent sure they are looking for.
4. ????
5. Drive immediately to the Cab or Banana, grab yourself a pizza and make it rain.

Its not rocket science.
if serious i'm not sure the owner/employees would appreciate being outed publicly. Remember the mopes are the customers and many NES members. I personally haven't ever seen a counter person there pushing anything on anyone.
 
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if serious i'm not sure the owner/employees would appreciate being outed publicly. Remember the mopes are the customers and many NES members. I personally haven't ever seen a counter person there pushing anything on anyone.
Hypothetical. I dont sell any guns I buy, ever.
But if I was worried about my gun selling on consignment, I would do exactly that.

Remember, the situation was hypothetical, the mopes are customers, no one was outed, this didnt happen, everyone can sleep soundly tonight instead of taking things way too seriously, and the cab pizza is awesome.
 
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PennyPincher

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One of the things that drives me batty as hell is bizarre (or more like not so bizarre) hours.

Very few shops are open on nights and weekends. Many of them keep bankers hours. I get it, the old codger types can hang around and drink coffee with you guys because they're retired... but in the rest of the world, most of us can only buy guns on nights and weekends. Some of the better small ones hell I can call up the owner on their cell phone and if they're around they'll meet me at their shop to make a sale happen if I'm serious.

ETA: I realize that people have to go home and eat and can't work 7 days a week, but I've often wondered if a lot of these places would do better off just lopping off monday and tuesday off their hours instead... course the Sunday thing might cause labor law issues (need to pay people extra?) not sure how that works...

-Mike
Some of these hours may be a result of NICS availability or in the case of NH, the NH state background check system??? Not sure what hours those things are manned.
 

PennyPincher

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Me: How much for a firearms transfer?

Gun Shop Clerk: Depends on what gun it is.

Me: Why is that?

GSC: We don't do transfers on guns we sell in the store.

Me: Ok, but I'd like to have a custom built gun shipped here and transferred.

GSC: How much does the gun cost?

Me: Why is that important?

GSC: We charge a percentage based on how expensive the gun is.

Me: Thank you very much. Goodbye.
That's total bullshit pricing a transfer on the value of the gun. It costs no more time or money to transfer a $3000 gun than it takes to transfer a $300 gun. That's just greedy bullshit.
 

CoastieRon

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That's total bullshit pricing a transfer on the value of the gun. It costs no more time or money to transfer a $3000 gun than it takes to transfer a $300 gun. That's just greedy bullshit.
Speaking of greedy bullshit:

Remember the QD group buy? I was charged a transfer fee for an upper receiver at Reilly's...


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1) Would like to see more stores with ammo on shelves. I hate to say it, but the old Gun Room even had that.

2) Would like to see a place that has multiple choices for things like stocks, etc. I can't tell what one feels like looking online.

3) Would like to see a mountain of .22 ammo. I think this applies to most people, and "it is what it is".

4) Would LOVE to see .22 ammo like "Velocitor" available in bulk. Usually, it is the cheesy, cheap stuff in bulk.

5) Would like to see some better hours. Do like the barbers, and open on Saturdays, but close during a weekday or something.

6) Have a coffee pot or something. Keep the shop clean and decent smelling. Hoppes #9 is good, old cigars and farts (again, Gun Room) is NOT good. (For the record, I like cigars, just not stale cigar smoke.)

7) Don't treat customers poorly. Sad this needs to be said.
 
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i don't know how a modern shop stays in business these days. i've always said shooters are the cheapest people alive. i've been standing in four seasons more than once to hear a customer tell the counter guy he has driven off the cape to save 20 bucks on a gun purchase. jeezus, thats at least 3 hours minimum driving time + gas. it's crazy sometimes.
That was me a few times. I never actually made it all the way. But driving off cape was required for a while for a deal. OD may have changed that.

From what I have gleaned of Four Seasons, I would pay their asking price for quite a bit.

Prices in MA can not be compared to pretty much anything anywhere.

Aggregation is the only currency valid in the people's Republic.



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Some of these hours may be a result of NICS availability or in the case of NH, the NH state background check system??? Not sure what hours those things are manned.
They have Electronic fbi checks now, I've run checks at like 9pm. I also wouldn't be surprised if it was staffed close to 24x7 due to time zones and what not.

As for NH POC, I, as the purchaser, got a timely response at 730p recently, so they are there.
 
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