Well it should...........
I'd like to see more responsible breeding. It's like buying a dog, don't unless you can really take care of it because it is a big responsibility.
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GOT THIS FROM THE WIFE TODAY.
- Thread starter jcliff
- Start date
Well it should...........
I'd like to see more responsible breeding. It's like buying a dog, don't unless you can really take care of it because it is a big responsibility.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I am agnostic and I do not really care what religion any one is. Pray all night if you want or worship Buddha if you want... it makes no difference to me. We are all human and deserving of equal treatment regardless of our petty differences. We should be worried more about freedom of religion and freedom from religion than kids praying and going to Sunday school. Make no laws trying to force people to be a particular religion/pray or forcing people to pray or be part of a religion and we will be all set.
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Hiltonizer
Banned
This thread is weird.
Everyone seems to be putting words in everyone else's mouth.
I can't even begin to correct what some have claimed I've said in this thread.
I think I may be included in that as well... It wasn't my intention to trash theism, I was just simply pointing out that I don't agree with the sentiment that more religion will fix our problems... I was agreeing that, simple laws will not.
I don't argue with religious beliefs being right or wrong, that's what is typically inoffensive about agnosticism...
That said, you bible beaters need to lighten up... but I still love you buggers
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
IMO, GOVERNMENT has no place in running schools. That'd be the end of the school prayer argument once and for all.
Forget all the "God sucks!/God rocks!" debates.
A big +1.
The Constitution never mentioned public schools, funded (and run) by the Federal government. In the past 50 years American society has begun to unravel. Mass shootings, the breaking down of the family unit, etc. etc. How many people in the corrections system today are the product of broken homes or single parent homes? How many of them have been taught that their lives mean nothing, that they're a cosmic fart on a spinning rock bound to die someday, so they may as well have fun?
Ask a career school teacher about the changes they've seen in kids over the past few decades. Then ask yourself if you think Obama has the solution to our dilemma with mandatory schooling for ages 1-5.
You can shriek all day that God shouldn't be taught in school or whatever your argument is. But in my not so humble opinion, the solution to generations of disconnected and violent youths isn't praying over the PA in a school or striking "One nation under God" from our money.
The solution is for parents to actually raise their children, and teach them right and wrong. It's not TV's job to raise kids, or gifted school administrators. It's the job of the parents to raise the children, not the state.
And just to keep up with the Jones's, yes, I do believe in God.
A big +1.
The Constitution never mentioned public schools, funded (and run) by the Federal government. In the past 50 years American society has begun to unravel. Mass shootings, the breaking down of the family unit, etc. etc. How many people in the corrections system today are the product of broken homes or single parent homes? How many of them have been taught that their lives mean nothing, that they're a cosmic fart on a spinning rock bound to die someday, so they may as well have fun?
Ask a career school teacher about the changes they've seen in kids over the past few decades. Then ask yourself if you think Obama has the solution to our dilemma with mandatory schooling for ages 1-5.
You can shriek all day that God shouldn't be taught in school or whatever your argument is. But in my not so humble opinion, the solution to generations of disconnected and violent youths isn't praying over the PA in a school or striking "One nation under God" from our money.
The solution is for parents to actually raise their children, and teach them right and wrong. It's not TV's job to raise kids, or gifted school administrators. It's the job of the parents to raise the children, not the state.
And just to keep up with the Jones's, yes, I do believe in God.
Titan
Banned
I found myself questioning my own position on 'prayer in schools' when I thought about the potential outcomes a bit.
I'm not at all for making allowances for throwing down prayer rugs and praying to Mecca.
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I'm not at all for making allowances for throwing down prayer rugs and praying to Mecca.
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Religion has never been removed from the schools. If fact there is more now than there ever has been.
The kids are taught to worship Mother Earth on a daily basis. Earth worship is taught through new written scripture as well as through prayer.
The UN Earth Charter is like their bible. Read this quote by Mikhail Gorbachev:
“My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a "Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward the environment in the next century and beyond”
The United Nations World Summit on Sustainable Development (also known as Earth Summit II) opened with a welcoming ceremony with children forming a human Tower of Babel and singing beneath a huge globe.
Earth Summit II had a lot of New Age occult imagery. The Earth Charter, presented as the "new Ten Commandments," is being advanced by the UN and the US as the basis for a sort of neo-pagan, earth-centered "spirituality."
This is taught in the schools. So I guess it all depends on your religion whether or not you believe it should be in the schools.
We have some Earth Worshipers right here amongst us.
The kids are taught to worship Mother Earth on a daily basis. Earth worship is taught through new written scripture as well as through prayer.
The UN Earth Charter is like their bible. Read this quote by Mikhail Gorbachev:
“My hope is that this charter will be a kind of Ten Commandments, a "Sermon on the Mount," that provides a guide for human behavior toward the environment in the next century and beyond”
The United Nations World Summit on Sustainable Development (also known as Earth Summit II) opened with a welcoming ceremony with children forming a human Tower of Babel and singing beneath a huge globe.
Earth Summit II had a lot of New Age occult imagery. The Earth Charter, presented as the "new Ten Commandments," is being advanced by the UN and the US as the basis for a sort of neo-pagan, earth-centered "spirituality."
This is taught in the schools. So I guess it all depends on your religion whether or not you believe it should be in the schools.
We have some Earth Worshipers right here amongst us.
The role of public education is always debatable. You have folks like Martlett who would allow teacher-led prayer in the classroom, and I'd be willing to bet that would be jolly-all right with those who promote that viewpoint until it turns out that Teach is either a Muslim or a Jew and not just a Christian but an honest-to-God born again Christian !
I would never stop anyone from praying anywhere, or a group of people from praying if that's what they want to do as this country was founded on the concept of freedom of religion or if you will: freedom from religion.
The importance of school prayer is highly overrated, anyway. Hitler went to parochial school and Stalin studied for the Orthodox priesthood...so what does that mean?
Personally I am through with organized religion, after twenty-four years of faithful church attendance, working on various and sundry committees, and donating a significant sum of money, I am through. I'm convinced that the whole thing is a crock for me (you must reach your own conclusions and I respect your choices)...I now feel better going to the gym on Sunday morning than I ever did sitting in a pew. Naturally, my wife found this upsetting, but now she likes her Sunday mornings free too. She still goes to a Wednesday morning service on occaision, but that's it.
So all you people that have a monopoly on the truth: continue to promulgate and evangelize all you want. It's your right, just don't do it as an official part of the school day.
I am also so damn sick and tired of the schools taking such a bad rap. THe issue today is bad parenting, maybe not reflected on this forum, but in society. The schools can't do everything, it really is up to the parents.
Mark056
I would never stop anyone from praying anywhere, or a group of people from praying if that's what they want to do as this country was founded on the concept of freedom of religion or if you will: freedom from religion.
The importance of school prayer is highly overrated, anyway. Hitler went to parochial school and Stalin studied for the Orthodox priesthood...so what does that mean?
Personally I am through with organized religion, after twenty-four years of faithful church attendance, working on various and sundry committees, and donating a significant sum of money, I am through. I'm convinced that the whole thing is a crock for me (you must reach your own conclusions and I respect your choices)...I now feel better going to the gym on Sunday morning than I ever did sitting in a pew. Naturally, my wife found this upsetting, but now she likes her Sunday mornings free too. She still goes to a Wednesday morning service on occaision, but that's it.
So all you people that have a monopoly on the truth: continue to promulgate and evangelize all you want. It's your right, just don't do it as an official part of the school day.
I am also so damn sick and tired of the schools taking such a bad rap. THe issue today is bad parenting, maybe not reflected on this forum, but in society. The schools can't do everything, it really is up to the parents.
Mark056
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+1. Schools take a bad rap for everything from bullying, to school shootings. In 99% of those cases, I firmly believe it is a case of horrible parenting.
First, I don't care what religion the teacher is. Schools should be governed locally.
Second, the schools take a bad rap because many of them suck. The federal/state .gov's involvement in them sucks. Many of the teachers suck.
Bingo.
And I'd bet 90% of the ppl that are on here defending religion in schools would have a stroke if they found out that a teacher led their kid's classroom in an Islamic prayer.
That just illustrates the problem with religion in schools and, in my opinion, religion in general: Ppl hear God or Religion and they immediately think of their own faith and practices as if how they worship/believe is the only "right" way, and that any other belief system is "wrong". If that were not the case, and they actually recognized and respected belief systems different from their own as valid religions and not just some backwards theories practiced by heathens from the Third World, then they'd be the staunchest opponents of religion in schools in any capacity. I'm guessing the prospect of their kid being taught an Islamic prayer or making an offering to Ganesh would probably trump any "crusade" they might have otherwise undertaken to get prayer back in school.
Back to the OP, the man had valid points that I think we can all agree on, and it does the heart (and brain) good to see someone who was affected by gun violence not take the easy way out of blaming the gun and actually taking our legislators to task for essentially trying to eradicate crime, hatred, fear, violence, and addiction with nothing more than their pens...
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You can't make a blanket, unverifiable statement then use it as a factual illustration in support of your argument.
Well, you can, but it would be an unsubstantiated claim.
Twigg
NES Member
As long as there are different faiths represented in rotation I'd have no problem with that at all.
Prayer in school doesn't mean you have to mention Jesus, Mohamed, Buddha, Tao, etc. IMO
To raise kids in a society where we do not acknowledge a hire power only promotes being a shitty person. When we do, we basically say its okay to murder, rape, and steal because there is no judgment or heaven and that we're just savage animals like every other organism on earth.
Now I'm not expert in religion, but I would assume most have a ten commandment type list, but in all honestly Christianity is the best religion because Jesus claimed he was the Son of God for all man no matter what race, poor, or rich..and that you did not have to pay corrupt priests for forgiveness...you don't even have to go to church...as long as you are a good person and help others there will be a place in heaven for you...
And seriously, why wouldn't you want to believe there is a heaven, because of my faith, I'm not scared to die and thats what this country is missing and thats why terrorists are so crazy...its one of the strongest human elements in your existence...bombs don't win wars..endurance of faith wins them.
To raise kids in a society where we do not acknowledge a hire power only promotes being a shitty person. When we do, we basically say its okay to murder, rape, and steal because there is no judgment or heaven and that we're just savage animals like every other organism on earth.
Now I'm not expert in religion, but I would assume most have a ten commandment type list, but in all honestly Christianity is the best religion because Jesus claimed he was the Son of God for all man no matter what race, poor, or rich..and that you did not have to pay corrupt priests for forgiveness...you don't even have to go to church...as long as you are a good person and help others there will be a place in heaven for you...
And seriously, why wouldn't you want to believe there is a heaven, because of my faith, I'm not scared to die and thats what this country is missing and thats why terrorists are so crazy...its one of the strongest human elements in your existence...bombs don't win wars..endurance of faith wins them.
I'm also a huge protestant...not to offend anyone but the Catholic church pulled some pretty f***ed up shit for my family in the 1940s..I also never understood priests not being able to have families, or women not being able to be Priests and all those other retarded Dogmas like no masturbation(how do you teach a religion of forgiveness when you tell people they will go to hell for things)..now the first Americans didn't want the Catholic church in this country, because it was a foreign entity pulling the strings...so can we pass this bill to tax property of the Church soon please!
I never claimed I was making a factual statement. I clearly stated it was my opinion in one instance and in the other the "I'd bet..." was a pretty clear indicator that I was, again, just offering my opinion (to me anyway, ymmv). I can bet that it will be 110 degrees out tomorrow, it doesn't mean I know it's a fact, just that I believe it...kinda like faith.
As far as unsubstantiated or unverifiable, my opinion was based on the many disparaging remarks about Islam and/or Muslims I've read on this board. Of course nobody is going to say they have a problem with Islam in the context of discussing prayer in school...you'd have to talk about 9/11 or Iraq to get peoples' honest feelings.
Well what about Buddha? Buddha said to respect all life, not just human life. I say Buddha wins, he beats Jesus.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Somebody needs to brush up on their history...murder, rape and theft have all been committed in the name of almost every major religion.
To turn the car back onto the road....
People= guilty of their crimes
Firearms= just inanimate objects
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Oh, and I'm not buying the whole "these kids were under too much control by the school system, they were stressed, they were just lashing out, etc."
Bull, these kids were spoiled lil punks from well-off families. They were probably used to getting everything they wanted and the one time they got told no or were "bullied", they couldn't handle it and decided their need to vent their anger was worth more than other peoples' lives. Life is hard and full of adversity, always has been. Get used to it or check out, but don't take innocent people with you.
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
I acknowladge a hire power - my boss has the power to hire and fire.
IF you mean a HIGHER power, I could really give a turd if kids pray in schools or not. When I was a kid, we had a 'moment of silent meditation'. I was a good little boy and I always said a prayer there. Now they don't have that. Is that making our country go to hell in a handbasket? I doubt it. More likely it has to do with the ever increasing materialism, the death of the extended family, the 'you can have it all' mentality and the glorification of urban gang violence in the media.
Is God the solution? I think it can be one of them, but there are others too.
As for your anti-Catholic rant: I'm sorry someone in the church f-ed with your family in the 40's. That would piss me off too.
The Catholic dogma? Dude, you say you're a baptist, right? Masturbation? Ask your minister about Onanism and if it's OK and I think you'll be surprised at your answer. Likewise taking a toke of the herb, dancing, drinking, fornicating etc. While you're at it, ask him if it's OK to miss church.
Oh, and a good Baptist boy like you should know his gospel better. Jesus NEVER claims directly to be the son of God. He INDIRECTLY claims the title Son of Man.
So let's see:
You're an expert on the medicinal uses of marijuana - although you just smoke it to get high and you've never actually seen it used medicinally
You're an expert on drag racing - although you've never actually done it
You're an expert on psychotropic and anti-depressive drugs - although you've never taken any classes on them, used them nor know personally anyone suffering from clinical depression
You post on a gun forum, yet you don't have an FID or LTC and the closest you've ever gotten to using one is playing Call of Duty
You claim to be a baptist yet you know shit-all about the Gospel, the rest of the Bible or sin. I seriously doubt you've ever even HEARD of The Purpose Driven Life.
Did I miss anything?
![[troll]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/016.gif "Troll [troll]")
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