First rifle

[matt]

OK,

I know my next gun purchase will be a S&W1911, hopefully soon, do be set up for bullseye.

I've been starting to think I'd like to try my hand at highpower rifle competition in the spring and summer, but don't know where to start.

Part of me says get a decent AR15 (being evil, and black, and all). Part of me says get a M1 Garand (do I really need to explain this?). What ever I get, I want to at least be able to migrate it reasonablely easily into a target grade rifle.

Are there other options for a competition rifles?

Where do I start?

Thanks in advance.

 

[hminsky]

OK,

I know my next gun purchase will be a S&W1911, hopefully soon, do be set up for bullseye.

I've been starting to think I'd like to try my hand at highpower rifle competition in the spring and summer, but don't know where to start.

Part of me says get a decent AR15 (being evil, and black, and all). Part of me says get a M1 Garand (do I really need to explain this?). What ever I get, I want to at least be able to migrate it reasonablely easily into a target grade rifle.

Are there other options for a competition rifles?

Where do I start?

Thanks in advance.

get them both

 

[kendall-op]

With all the news coming out of New Bedford I get a AR.

 

[SKS Ray]

You can start with a Ruger 10/22 if you're on a budget. Then spend several hundreds of dollars tricking it out into a tack driving high end target rifle if you decide to. Its not high power but with the right parts you can make little 10 shot groups into a 1/2" hole at 50 yards with practice. Even at 100 yards you can get amazing groups. The best thing about a 10/22 is that you can upgrade slowly and get great results by simply adding a heavy barrel and stock for not much extra $, plus ammo is cheap to practice with.
If you're really considering geting an AR, do like I did last weekend and get a complete lower asap. That way you have the registered part of the gun and anything else later can be sent by mail, plus you're covered if there is a new AWB. I'm currently saving pennies to get a complete upper for my next purchase.
M1's are cheaper but you really need to know muzzle wear in order to make sure you're getting something that will be as accurate as you want it to. Unless you get a new build from Springfield Armory with a new barrel. In that case an AR and M1 will cost about the same.

 

[Jose]

You can start with a Ruger 10/22 if you're on a budget. Then spend several hundreds of dollars tricking it out into a tack driving high end target rifle if you decide to. Its not high power but with the right parts you can make little 10 shot groups into a 1/2" hole at 50 yards with practice. Even at 100 yards you can get amazing groups. The best thing about a 10/22 is that you can upgrade slowly and get great results by simply adding a heavy barrel and stock for not much extra $, plus ammo is cheap to practice with.

-1

 

[Jose]

Part of me says get a decent AR15 (being evil, and black, and all). Part of me says get a M1 Garand (do I really need to explain this?). What ever I get, I want to at least be able to migrate it reasonablely easily into a target grade rifle.

Are there other options for a competition rifles?

Conventional wisdom says get a National Match AR-15 from Rock River or Armalite or build your own with a Rock River NM complete lower and a custom NM upper from somebody like Compass Lake Engieering.

However, Highpower is NOT limited to military look-alike rifles prepared for match use, properly referred to in the rules as "service rifles".

You can also get into it using what is known in the rules as an NRA Match Rifle. It can be almost anything that has a 5 round magazine, can be quickly reloaded, has iron sights, and can accept a sling for support. Something like this:

I found in in Gunbroker.com for $1600. I have seen some for less in similar condition. It is a custom highpower rifle built on a Winchester Model 70 action. With a little bit of practice, the bolt action is definitely NOT a handicap in the rapids. Bolt actions actually have dominated the sport of Highpower at the highest levels. and continue to do so today.

A new NM AR-15 Service Rifle will cost you from $900 to $1300, depending on what you buy, so the cost is not all that different. If you don't reload, an AR service rifle or a bolt gun in 308 Winchester are your only realistic choices because factory loaded ammo is easily available.

Forget about the M1 and M14 (M1A) as highpower target rifles unless you are ready to sink $2000 into them over cost. Otherwise you will not have an accurate rifle. And beginners, more than anyone, need accurate rifles. You cannot progress if your weapon is spraying shots all over the target despite your best efforts.

Back two weekends ago I shot a 600 yard prone match with my M1 (in GI condition). I normally shoot 193 to 198 out of 200 points at 600 yards with my NM AR or my Model 70. Best I could manage with my M1 was a 169. And I have a Master classification in Highpower. How much fun would you have as a beginner with a rifle that can barely perform in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing? Trust me, it's frustrating. And frustration will kill your interest pretty quickly.

 

[SKS Ray]

-1

Tell that to the people at Rimfire Central and other 22lr shooting fanatics.
I know matt is thinking either AR or M1 highpower, but my suggestion was geting into 22lr rifle competition is much cheaper and easier for starts.

 

[Jose]

Here's another one in 308 Winchester for sale on nationalmatch.us for $1300 ready to go.

 

[Jose]

Tell that to the people at Rimfire Central and other 22lr shooting fanatics.

I am a rimfire fanatic. And those who are serious about accuracy buy only one thing: Anschutz.

When tricked out 10/22s accumulate the same number of wins in smallbore prone, smallbore three position, and smallbore silhouette that Anschutz has, I might be impressed.

 

[Jose]

I forgot to add Anschutz's long list of victories in biathlon and smallbore benchrest.

 

[Jose]

I know matt is thinking either AR or M1 highpower, but my suggestion was geting into 22lr rifle competition is much cheaper and easier for starts.

I don't know what kind of 22LR competition you are thinking about, but a mildly tricked out 10/22 is not even going to come close to being competitive in any of the smallbore disciplines that directly correlate to Highpower, namely smallbore prone and smallbore three-position. If all a fully tricked out 10/22 can manage at 50 yards is a 1/2" group, it's not even in the running.

Also smallbore requires pretty much the same exact equipment as highpower (shooting coat and glove, spotting scope, shooting mat, and sling).

 

[SKS Ray]

I forgot to add Anschutz's long list of victories in biathlon and smallbore benchrest.

I'll agree that Anschutz rifles are renowned for being some of the best rifles in the world when it comes to rimfire shooting, but again I repeat... I mentioned a 10/22 because its much cheaper for starts, and there are plenty of groups that have strictly customized 10/22 matches.
If I was considering getting into competition shooting, the last thing I'd do is rush out and spend a thousand dollars on a rifle if I was looking for something basic to start with that could easily be migrated into a target rifle.

 

[drgrant]

I would start with the AR15, given that it has the highest possibility of being
banned here in the near future. The out of box accuracy is also great,
even with milsurp ammo. There are also a ton of parts and the like
you can add, etc, to configure it for whatever sport you happen to be
shooting.

-Mike

 

[PatMcD]

For somebody wanting to get into the Highpower game, starting from scratch, the best one-stop-shopping, most bang-for-the-buck choice has got to be Rock River's NM AR15. Arguments can be made for getting a lower locally and adding an upper from Compass Lake or White Oak, but the RR has everything you need to climb to the top of this game.

Jose's right about the rimfires, too. Annie is the only way to go when it comes to competition. I shoot in a local indoor league here over the Winter and every rifle is an Anschutz (30-40 guys & gals). I bought my old 1413 used for $450.

As for the Garand, by all means you should get one, but shoot a Highpower Match first so you can qualify to buy one from the CMP. Best way to go for the M1. After shooting the AR, you won't be wanting to trade it for the M1 when you hear "All ready on the firing line!"

 

[USMA-82]

I also recommend the AR-15. I bought my Bushmaster DCM (now known as CMP) model four years ago through GOAL. That was when the CMP still had an AR-15 program. Unfortunately, that program is completed. Real shame, because they were selling $1200 rifles for $875 each.

I shot the AR for the first two years, then got the wild idea that I wanted to shoot a "real" rifle - the M1A. After a year of brusing my ego, I went back to the AR-15 this year. That's not to say the M1A is bad - I'm sure that in the right hands, my Supermatch would be superb. I just need a hell of alot more practice. Maybe I'll give it a try again this coming year....

The AR is easier to shoot, cheaper to shoot, cheaper to maintain, and at least as accurate as any other service rifle. In the past 10 years, the AR has become the dominant rifle in the Camp Perry Service matches.

And given the current political climate, I do see a benefit in having an evil AR-15 in my possession that can be "grandfathered" before they get outlawed.

Besides the rifle, try to get the best quality equipment you can afford. You don't have to get it all at once, but when you do buy, get something you won't be replacing after the first six months.

For some additional info, check out these websites:

http://www.nationalmatch.us/
(check out the forum)

http://www.jarheadtop.com/
(read all the articles)

Good luck! See you on the range!

 

[Dirtypacman]

I started with the AR and then moved to the M1 Garand but quite honestly you do need them both

 

[Jose]

If I was considering getting into competition shooting, the last thing I'd do is rush out and spend a thousand dollars on a rifle if I was looking for something basic to start with that could easily be migrated into a target rifle

10/22s, not matter how customized, are NOT suitable for the type of competitions we are talking about here.

Highpower shooters shoot position and prone smallbore for training and for the competition itself. The 10/22 SUCKS in that application.

 

[Jose]

I think every highpower rifle shooter should have one competition-ready bolt gun in the safe.

Call me paranoid, but if a new "ban" comes, the grandfathering of existing rifles is FAR from a certainty.

 

[Jose]

For the record, I started in HP with a NM AR from Rock River. Made master with it, and I will continue shooting it until I become a Distinguished Rifleman (18 more points to go).

Once I achieve that goal, I will most likely put the AR down and start using the Winchester shown earlier and my new toy, a Remington 700 sleeved and stocked for Palma long range (800, 900, 1000 yd) shooting.

 

[drgrant]

Call me paranoid, but if a new "ban" comes, the grandfathering of existing rifles is FAR from a certainty.

Yeah, but you can't argue that it's 1000 times more difficult for the government to deal
with the "theft of property" issue than it is for them to simply grandfather the existing
ones. Even California allowed the guns to be registered/grandfathered under the
law. If MA said they were going to "confiscate" the guns it would be essentially one of
the first to try to do this. Many sparks would fly. The government cannot simply steal
property without offering just compensation. So that means they'd have to "pay" for the
cost of the ban if they wanted a full circle ban.

And right now, I bet there are thousands of people kicking themselves
in the ass because they didn't buy another AR and they're stuck in
commiefornia for the moment. At least having one around will potentially
buy you some time to escape the state in a more organized manner.

-Mike

 

[Weerd Beard]

Off topic, but do you NEED a reason to buy a Mosin nagant?


I didn't think so!

 

[TonyD]

BACK to the original topic:

I've been starting to think I'd like to try my hand at highpower rifle competition in the spring and summer, but don't know where to start.

Part of me says get a decent AR15 (being evil, and black, and all). Part of me says get a M1 Garand (do I really need to explain this?). What ever I get, I want to at least be able to migrate it reasonablely easily into a target grade rifle.

Are there other options for a competition rifles?

Matt - There are three rifles, and only three rifles than can be used in high power service rifle competition (what most people refer to as "high-power").

The M1 Garand, the M14 (or civillian version - M1A) and the M16A2/A4 (or civillian version - AR15A2 / A4 (with carry handle attached).

As a couple of others have stated, I also believe your very best option for a rifle is the RRA NM with 1/4 - 1/4 sights.

 

[vellnueve]

Sig 550...

But given that $9000 is probably out of your range, yeah buy an AR and build it up over time.

 

[Jose]

BACK to the original topic:



Matt - There are three rifles, and only three rifles than can be used in high power service rifle competition (what most people refer to as "high-power").

The M1 Garand, the M14 (or civillian version - M1A) and the M16A2/A4 (or civillian version - AR15A2 / A4 (with carry handle attached).

As a couple of others have stated, I also believe your very best option for a rifle is the RRA NM with 1/4 - 1/4 sights.

Since virtually all NRA Highpower Matches run service and match rifles concurrently I included the bolt guns.

Once you try a fully adjustable bolt gun with its outstanding sights, it is hard to go back to a service rifle.

 

[matt]

Thanks for the advice everyone... I was leaning toward the AR to start with. I think I'm now firmly in that camp, but I think in time I'll end up with all of them, but i'll start with the AR. It seems like I can get into it for ~$1000 for a national match RRA.

 

[Jose]

Matt, hook up with Derek and have him mentor you into the sport. It doesn't get much better than having a USMC Primary Marksmanship Instructor that is also a Distinguished Rifleman be your coach.

 

[JGG]

high power gun

Just had to put my 2 cents in. If you can swing the ar by all means get that one first! It allows you to shoot service class, and you can later add a varmint upper with sights to shoot match rifle class. If budget is the concern, then the best bang for the buck in my opinion, is a savage model 12 with the new trigger. You can order one thru Gun and Sport North already in a varmint stock for less than anyone else I checked with. I'm real!!! tight with a dollar. All you need is sights, Williams now makes a long scale sight and a globe for short money, and some good ammo and start shooting!
The Woburn Sportsmans is running their indoor/outdoor winter league, Sunday mornings. This is a great way to start in high power for a novice. A really great bunch of people, men, women, and juniors.

 

[vellnueve]

Off topic, but do you NEED a reason to buy a Mosin nagant?


I didn't think so!

Speaking of that, do you really need a reason to buy ANY gun?

 

[matt]

OK, AR fever has set in...

does AR15sales.com posted prices represent the "real" price? Or is there a discount beyond this?

I'm thinking I'll just go for the RRA National Match A2 with 1/4 x 1/4 sights. Should I get the optional 0.03" hooded post of the standard .05"?

Also, if I buy another upper to go on it, will in any way harm the lower if the upper is not a match quality, or in any way specially fitted to it?

What should I expect to pay in addition to get it nuetered for MA?

Thanks guys,
Matt