FFL required I buy lock for transfer

[G4Y4HK]

Gun Parlor made my transferee buyer buy one of those included shitty free cable locks. I tried to transfer at Pullman Arms one time and the main guy there yelled at me for not bringing the rifle in a lockable case (I brought it in a gun sock and buyer had his own lock case in his car ready). Where do you guys recommend an FFL that doesn't have a pipe up their ass?

 

[slap shot]

If possible I would have taken the lock and locked his front door on the way out.

If only they weren’t pickable with a wet q-tip.

 

[Knob Creek]

If only they weren’t pickable with a wet q-tip.

Not if you put JB Weld in it!

 

[Ranger007]

The mental gymnastics in this thread are outstanding.

1) laugh at counter guy
2) pick up your property and walk out
3) keep laughing as you leave

 

[Picton]

Where do you guys recommend an FFL that doesn't have a pipe up their ass?

The Rocky Mountain states.

 

[Ranger007]

Yet again, an NES thread has gone totally off the rails with misinformation.

 

[Laura]

Gun Parlor made my transferee buyer buy one of those included shitty free cable locks. I tried to transfer at Pullman Arms one time and the main guy there yelled at me for not bringing the rifle in a lockable case (I brought it in a gun sock and buyer had his own lock case in his car ready). Where do you guys recommend an FFL that doesn't have a pipe up their ass?

Whenever I planned a person-to-person sale, I would email a shop in advance and ask about their transfer process. There's a lot of shops taking advantage of customers, so you might need to be willing to drive a bit to find someone reasonable. I would always email to confirm even if the info was posted as I don't like surprises. My preferred shop is Northeast Arms in Peabody. If you don't live near them, you need to start by contacting the local shops.

 

[Marty McFly]

four seasons is in woburn

Huh?

 

[Coyote33]

This all went to crap when they took away the kitchen table dealers.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Not if you put JB Weld in it!

Who does not have real by-pass cable cutters in their tool box?

 

[one-eyed Jack]

This all went to crap when they took away the kitchen table dealers.

That's why the Mill. Jack.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I do almost all of my firearms acquisitions through transfers and private sales (NH). I've never had a problem with transfers because I tend to find one place I like and stick to it. The only time a FFL got weird about a lock was when I bought a Mossberg 930 JM Pro on consignment from a shop in RI when I lived there. In RI, there's no statutory requirement for a long gun to leave the shop with a lock, only handguns:

http://webserver.rilin.state.ri.us/Statutes/TITLE11/11-47/11-47-60.3.htm

This particular FFL insisted that he couldn't let the JM Pro leave the shop without a lock. Rather than get into an intellectual and legal debate over how he wasn't required to have the gun leave the store with a lock, I used a Jedi mind trick to convince him to give me a lock from his shop (oddly enough a Mossberg lock lol) and that I would "return the lock to him."

Haven't been back to the shop since.

 

[allen-1]

There are essentially two reasons to do transfers. One is to make money. To make it worth the time you would want to charge $50+ per gun that you transfer because it is time you could have used to sell another gun at that or higher profit. Also transfers can be a royal pain with people that call up 90 times asking if it is there yet, letting you know it shipped, telling you it was signed for by some unknown person, etc.

The second reason to do transfers it to bring in new customers that will come back and spend money in the future. This results in a transfer cost of $25 give or take and a very different way of dealing with customers.

Clearly CG is solely focused on making money on the immediate transaction without a care in the world about making new customers or retaining old ones.

There's a third reason, (and probably others that I haven't thought of); that's simply doing business with an existing customer.

There's a local gun shop that I frequent. I buy guns there sometimes, I transfer other guns through there, I shoot competitions with some of the staff.

 

[Len-2A Training]

IIRC, either MGL requires that the dealer supply the lock or that was in Glidden's book. Unsure where that came from and I'm not going to go looking for it, but I definitely recall either reading or being told that (and not by a gun dealer). If you work with a dealer regularly, you could probably "donate" a gun lock to him and have him give it back to you with the gun after he does the transfer.

 

[Knob Creek]

Who does not have real by-pass cable cutters in their tool box?

OK I hear you. How about chaining a garbage can to their car?

 

[PATRON]

So,

1. Let's say it is Massachusetts LAW that you need to buy a lock from the dealer.
2. You do that when you do a purchase or transfer or whatever. The law has been met.
3. You have their shiny new lock in package, with your receipt.
4. You take YOUR OWN LOCK and put it on the gun. Still following the law, right?
5. You bring YOUR NEW LOCK (that you just recently purchased, per law) back to the counter, and return it.

Is this all good?

Sorry this store does not except returns on gun locks.

 

[PATRON]

 

[CATI]

I do not think that it would be considered a “unfair trade practice” legally. I see nothing illegal with saying everything we transfer needs a lock that we sell only. Bad for return business of course.

If they want $65 just charge $65 not $55

I had a transfer that the FFL asked to see a lock. We showed him a lock and all was good. I had A PURCHASE that I actually had to ask for a lock a couple times and he said the “tape on the box” counted as a lock.

 

[fshalor]

He f***ed you! Print this PDF, march down to the shop, and demand your money back. https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-firearm-safetylocking-devices-06-15-2020/download

M.G.L. c. 140, § 131K states that all sales of firearms and large capacity weapons in Massachusetts MUST include a safety device approved by the colonel of state police. This requirement applies to any seller including a wholesaler. The seller is not required to install the device so long as the weapon is accompanied by it. Failure to comply with this provision will constitute a breach of warranty and an unfair trade practice. This section does not apply to non-large capacity rifles and shotguns.
Sellers should ensure that the safety device is appropriate for the weapon being sold.

Funny. Silver City GAVE me a lock one time when I did a transfer there and the seller didn't have one.
$55 is rediculous. For something which should be free ish. (Time is time. Pay for time and dox)

$20-35 feels okay for the time. Heck when I went and did a transfer from a shop, I always bought some stuff while there.

 

[dhuze]

Is it possible they just don’t want to do transfer business, so they make it so cumbersome intentionally so that people go elsewhere?

Who wouldn't want to do transfers for $660 an hour?

And why does the OP NOT want to say the name of Collectors Gallery? They are rip off artists why not warn others?

What would they have done if you already had a lock on it? Make you remove it and buy one? I think not.

 

[drgrant]

It actually is. One of the conditions of your FFL is to follow all state laws. If you violate a state law while operating under your FFL they can also get you federally. Wasn’t that the final demise of Mike at Tightgroup? After the state f***ed up going after him multiple times the fedbois hit him with a federal violation for violating state law.

I think it is pretty rare for the ATF to use this but if they really want you…

Nope. Titegroup got indicted by the state for going off list. No fed involvement on the front end. No fed charges. The ATF /may/ have helped throw him under the bus, but they certainly didn't charge him.

 

[drgrant]

Would you do business with that dealer? I wouldn't. If he's shaking his customers down for 9 bucks his business must not be doing that well. The first thought that comes to mind is, if he's that desperate what else is he doing to score a buck from 'stupid' people that we don't know about?

Really, if a dealer would not accept you using your own gun lock and held your transfer hostage until you bought one of HIS locks, what would you think of the dealer's morals?

Just my .02

I wouldn't, but I also do due diligence before doing business like that with a shop.

Food for thought: this whole thread wouldn't exist if one of the two parties made a 5 minute phone call and asked a couple very basic questions.

 

[gerrycaruso]

That fee seems a bit high and I keep a lock in the truck just in case. Forcing you to buy his sounds like bullshit to me.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There are essentially two reasons to do transfers. One is to make money. To make it worth the time you would want to charge $50+ per gun that you transfer because it is time you could have used to sell another gun at that or higher profit. Also transfers can be a royal pain with people that call up 90 times asking if it is there yet, letting you know it shipped, telling you it was signed for by some unknown person, etc.

The second reason to do transfers it to bring in new customers that will come back and spend money in the future. This results in a transfer cost of $25 give or take and a very different way of dealing with customers.

Clearly CG is solely focused on making money on the immediate transaction without a care in the world about making new customers or retaining old ones.

Guns may be the only retail product where you can beat the middleman's markup by purchasing directly and paying a fee of well under 10% of actual cost to the middleman for him to use his stature as a retailer to procure something you may not directly purchase from the seller on a service charge, rather than retail markup, basis.

For example, try telling a bicycle dealer "I want to you get the current model year bike from a wholesaler that does not sell directly to consumers and I'll pay you a $50 transfer fee instead of your retail markup" and see how far you get.

That fee seems a bit high and I keep a lock in the truck just in case. Forcing you to buy his sounds like bullshit to me.

Unlike the "documentation fee" you are "forced" to pay at stealerships, the lock force is backed by MA CMR and there is a potential government imposed penalty for the dealer not doing it. The fact that many, perhaps most, dealers take a risk on this one does not change that fact.

 

[Tartakovsky]

Gun Parlor made my transferee buyer buy one of those included shitty free cable locks. I tried to transfer at Pullman Arms one time and the main guy there yelled at me for not bringing the rifle in a lockable case (I brought it in a gun sock and buyer had his own lock case in his car ready). Where do you guys recommend an FFL that doesn't have a pipe up their ass?

Any FFLs you frequently give business. I generally go to the Mill. I’m almost an hour away but I don’t care because I like all the folks at the various FFLs in the Mill, and they always treat me more than fairly. Also, any time you transfer a gun bring a cheap case and a cable lock. Go to FFLs that know you. I never go to an FFL and just do a transfer. I always buy something. Ammo, other guns, preban mags, etc. I only use FFLs I give decent business.

This FFL “in the Stoneham area” was sending a clear message - we don’t want to do transfers unless you’re buying something else. If you’re not buying something else, beat it.

 

[Shark_Cage]

Ok, So CG requires the buyer to buy a lock from them. I wonder if the seller provided the lock would that have worked. The buyer could have handed the lock to the seller on the way in.

 

[EJFudd]

For example, try telling a bicycle dealer "I want to you get the current model year bike from a wholesaler that does not sell directly to consumers and I'll pay you a $50 transfer fee instead of your retail markup" and see how far you get.

The problem with your example is that sales of bicycles are not regulated & restricted in any way even remotely close to the way firearms are regulated & restricted. I can buy a bicycle off of eBay or Amazon or from any one of many other sellers and have it shipped directly to me... no dealer involvement required. Well, not yet anyway! Governor Dimples may want to change that.

Also remember that not all incoming or local transfers are of brand new guns. Many are used. In fact, I would guess that the majority of them are used guns... and not typically available used from your local neighborhood dealer.

For those ordering (i.e., transferring in) brand spanking new guns when that exact same gun is right there sitting in your dealer's shop... well, shame on you.

 

[AHM]

Hey if the gun store has double doors with handles go there before they open, and put the lock around the door handles
with a note I am returning your lock.

If possible I would have taken the lock and locked his front door on the way out.

There's also this ill-sourced anecdote I posted about 15 months ago.

Transfers should be charged by the time involved. Example: I had a guy who collected old, very expensive Winchester rifles. ... box which contained the rifle that was wrapped in a half acre of bubble wrap ... And log the gun out of the book and file the 4473 and FA10. $25? You shittin me? Jack.

Note to self:
@one-eyed Jack can't be distracted with the idle pleasure
of sitting around and popping bubble wrap.
(I actually detest it when people do that to perfectly reusable bubble wrap;
but let that go).

IIRC, either MGL requires that the dealer supply the lock or that was in Glidden's book.

It's Consumer Badness to sell "... within the commonwealth without a safety device ...".
(Ch. 140 §131K).

Food for thought: this whole thread wouldn't exist if one of the two parties made a 5 minute phone call and asked a couple very basic questions.

It can be tough to stay that organized consistently.
One of the most basic buyer questions at a hamfest is "why are you selling it?".
It's open-ended; and open-ended questions sometime open the Door of Truth.
("Uh, ackchyually now that you ask me; it's because I let the smoke out and it hasn't worked since").
But it's easy to breeze through the transaction and only remember that One Weird Question
after you're walking away with the gear.

 

[EJFudd]

This FFL “in the Stoneham area” was sending a clear message - we don’t want to do transfers... period!

Fixed it for you.

Dealers have a way of sending a very clear message about their interest in doing transfers... incoming, outgoing or person-to-person. Their fees tell the whole story. Ask in advance or suffer the consequences.

 

[In God We Trust]

This is the point when someone would request that you out the FFL that did this.

FWIW, whenever I transfer a firearm through an FFL or FTF via FA-10 I always include a lock of some sort.

Any time I’ve bought a gun, I just pay and walk out. Never had anyone give me a hard time over a lock.