namedpipes
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yanici
NES Member
Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law does not excuse" or "ignorance of the law excuses no one") is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he or she was unaware of its content. ![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Latin for "ignorance of the law does not excuse" or "ignorance of the law excuses no one") is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because he or she was unaware of its content.
And PRECISELY what LAW would one be in violation of?
MGL says one must report with FA-10. It does NOT say that you must "e-file" nor does it say you only may use an FA-10 form with a sequence number ONLY if your PD has no electricity/Internet/indoor plumbing!!
A memo sent to select people (not the general public) advising to only use the Internet e-file is NOT A LAW!
Nobody will be prosecuted for using a PDF form. It might make some in EOPS/CJIS unhappy, but that is it. Saturday evening I sat with Jack Durkin, past-president of GOAL and he still holds a seat on the GCAB, he advised AGAINST using the e-file system.
Has anyone else noticed a running trend here in all levels of .gov a "rules & regulations" enforcement. Instead of passing laws I have noticed .gov just creates these agencies that impose rules and regulations that they can change at there free will. I thought we were the ones with free will? I am still going to do it they way I do it. Eff e-file (no thats the taxes), e-transfer.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
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G
GOAL C.M.
Bump. Please see OP for update.
so what should someone (MA class a ltc no restrictions & ct licensed) do if they recently inherited firearms from a deceased father in law who passed away a few years ago but was just able to get them recently? few revolvers and rifles.
For starters, read the Sticky in MA Gun Laws forum on Inheritance . . . assuming you are a MA Resident, which isn't at all clear from your post or info under your avatar!
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A couple of issues with the E-FA10:
1. It looks like you only need the license number, last name and DOB of the buyer to add guns to their record. There does not appear to be anything to prevent an unscrupulous seller from using this information to add additional firearms to the buyers record, and no pro-active notification system to let the buyer know this has been done. There will be an electronic trail of who did the add, but this could still be complicated since the gun owner would not know until something happened that caused this to be noticed. Imagine being under a surrender order 10 years after some n'er do well added a few guns to your record - and the PD does not believe you have turned in all of your guns when ordered.
2. The system has a mechanism to verify an LTC is current valid. This is actually pretty neat if you want to check to make sure a buyer's LTC is current (the LTC holder has to use his/her PIN to get this, so you would have to let the buyer use your laptop or demand they bring a printout of the license valid report). While this can be convenient, I wonder if negligence could be alleged if someone did a private sale to someone who presented a LTC that turned out to be invalid. It would have made more sense to let anyone type in an LTC and get a response back "Valid", "Invalid" (but not disclosing the name or any info on the license holder)
1. It looks like you only need the license number, last name and DOB of the buyer to add guns to their record. There does not appear to be anything to prevent an unscrupulous seller from using this information to add additional firearms to the buyers record, and no pro-active notification system to let the buyer know this has been done. There will be an electronic trail of who did the add, but this could still be complicated since the gun owner would not know until something happened that caused this to be noticed. Imagine being under a surrender order 10 years after some n'er do well added a few guns to your record - and the PD does not believe you have turned in all of your guns when ordered.
2. The system has a mechanism to verify an LTC is current valid. This is actually pretty neat if you want to check to make sure a buyer's LTC is current (the LTC holder has to use his/her PIN to get this, so you would have to let the buyer use your laptop or demand they bring a printout of the license valid report). While this can be convenient, I wonder if negligence could be alleged if someone did a private sale to someone who presented a LTC that turned out to be invalid. It would have made more sense to let anyone type in an LTC and get a response back "Valid", "Invalid" (but not disclosing the name or any info on the license holder)
Rob,
From talking with Jason, he said that the system checks validity of BOTH LTCs when you do the e-FA-10 and won't let you complete it if either LTC is invalid. So getting a "validation certificate" really isn't necessary to do this.
No one seems to know what practical use the "validation certificate" is supposed to have.
From talking with Jason, he said that the system checks validity of BOTH LTCs when you do the e-FA-10 and won't let you complete it if either LTC is invalid. So getting a "validation certificate" really isn't necessary to do this.
No one seems to know what practical use the "validation certificate" is supposed to have.
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It would be useful if you were lending someone a gun for short term use, or allowing someone access to your guns (house sitter, etc.) and wanted to confirm LTC validity - a VERY limited case.
Well then, based on that it would seem that you DO need to have both parties present at a computer with internet access to complete the transaction, if the validation certificate is basically worthless / could be forged.
namedpipes
NES Member
The instrument provided by the state to us citizens to verify someone is properly licensed to own / carry guns is the ltc/fid. There is no requirement on us beyond looking at it, observing that it isn't expired, seems to be the person in front of you and doesn't look obviously forged. We don't have to call the issuing PD to verify there are no restraining orders, etc that invalidate it. No questioning under bright lights. No lie detector test. He says he's licensed, shows the license, GTG.
And even that is more documentation/proof than is needed in many other states!
We have enough "compliance" crap to put up with without inventing more hoops for us to jump through...
stoneypete
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THIS
i actually live in both MA & CT, but my primary residence is MA and all weapons are compliant (and preban anyways). i did read the inheritance section and its f'n confusing. there is no lawyer handling his estate because his wife is still alive but wants the guns out of the safe. .
dcmdon
NES Member
I'd suggest you bring them to your CT residence. No registration, no nothing on the Rifles, just a bill of sale if you have a CT resident Pistol Permit.
If you already did the legal transfer of the firearms, nothing is required on your part to legally bring the guns into CT.
There is no gun registration in CT and a CT pistol permit authorizes you to carry any pistol or revolver regardless of capacity.
i wish it was that easy but my MA address is my primary and where they will be stored so i would like to be legally covered if there was ever a situation. the regulations in ma are so bad most leo's dont know what to do. i asked at my local pd and she told me i didnt have to do anything with the long guns and the pistols could just be registered with the fa10 form or through a dealer. i asked a dealer and they said they needed a "seller" for the order but there is no seller.
dcmdon
NES Member
I can't help on the MA side. Sorry about that. Just to get you up on the proper terms. You can have multiple residences, but only one Domicile. Your MA address is your Domicile.
Don
Don
namedpipes
NES Member
If you need a reliable answer you'll need to shell out for a lawyer. Somewhere in Gun Laws should be a sticky with contact information for a number of lawyers that can actually give you answers...
The inheritence info in the thread Lens mentioned is pretty clear and there are specific timeframes that things have to happen. If the will was probated a while back, then you'll need to involve an FFL to get them "legally", I would think.
If you are still in the tmeframe then you simply accept the firearms from the executor, file the fa-10 and stick them in your safe.
The inheritence info in the thread Lens mentioned is pretty clear and there are specific timeframes that things have to happen. If the will was probated a while back, then you'll need to involve an FFL to get them "legally", I would think.
If you are still in the tmeframe then you simply accept the firearms from the executor, file the fa-10 and stick them in your safe.
no will. just his words to the family and those are being honored. this guy was old school. most of the guns were bought years ago. to further clarify, he was from CT and the guns have never been in MA.
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dcmdon
NES Member
If thats the case, I'd leave them at your residence in CT. While the transfer may not be official, this is not something that anyone in CT really worries about unless you are a prohibited person.
Based on my readings here, it seems there is something to worry about in MA. So I'd keep them in CT, feel free to use them as you wish in CT until you get things figured out in MA.
If they were purchased before 1995, even new from a dealer, the State of CT will have no record of their existence.
The reality here is that the CT DPS is worried about ineligible people owning guns. You are clearly eligible so there are no problems.
I'm not advocating breaking the law, but sometimes the law does not anticipate all scenarios. Go to your grandmother, thank her for the firearms, bring them home to your CT residence and secure them appropriately.
If you want to be 100% legal, go to the DPS web site and follow the process for a private transfer of handguns. Your grandmother can be the transferor, you the transferee. Then the state has a record of you acquiring the guns.
Your grandmother does not have to worry about any problems being the transferor, again, you don't need any permits to own handguns or rifles.
Besides, didn't your grandfather give you those guns back in '94???
Don
Based on my readings here, it seems there is something to worry about in MA. So I'd keep them in CT, feel free to use them as you wish in CT until you get things figured out in MA.
If they were purchased before 1995, even new from a dealer, the State of CT will have no record of their existence.
The reality here is that the CT DPS is worried about ineligible people owning guns. You are clearly eligible so there are no problems.
I'm not advocating breaking the law, but sometimes the law does not anticipate all scenarios. Go to your grandmother, thank her for the firearms, bring them home to your CT residence and secure them appropriately.
If you want to be 100% legal, go to the DPS web site and follow the process for a private transfer of handguns. Your grandmother can be the transferor, you the transferee. Then the state has a record of you acquiring the guns.
Your grandmother does not have to worry about any problems being the transferor, again, you don't need any permits to own handguns or rifles.
Besides, didn't your grandfather give you those guns back in '94???
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
If the guns stay in Ct for now, none of this matters. Your grandmother owns the guns legally. She can legally transfer them to you as a CT resident.
I'd do this. Then just follow the standard procedure for a MA resident bringing guns that they own into the state.
Actually, this is a eureka moment. Split the process up into 2 pieces. 1) transfer guns to your ownership in CT 2) Move the guns to MA.
Don
However, if there's an executor of his will, the executor can decide what goes to whom, including saying that "all the guns go to JoshH in MA" There doesn't need to be an official will naming each gun explicitly. You can inherit lots of stuff that isn't named explicitly, even without a will. That's what executors do.
namedpipes
NES Member
I'd be leary of following anyones advice on this, even mine. Some of these answers sound like "oughta be"...
If you plan to keep them in Mass, consult a lawyer or quietly ignore everything (if you are a preban citizen and the guns are preban, it really won't matter much).
If yo uplan to keep them in CT, sounds like it won't much matter there.
If you plan to keep them in Mass, consult a lawyer or quietly ignore everything (if you are a preban citizen and the guns are preban, it really won't matter much).
If yo uplan to keep them in CT, sounds like it won't much matter there.
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