e-FA10. It's officially a mess!

[exo]

That letter says the paper FA-10 forms (sequentially numbered variety, not the PDF) will still be accepted. Does that mean they resolved their issues with getting new forms printed? I thought their excuse last summer was that they didn't own the copyright on the form and thus couldn't easily link up with a new printer.

 

[Coyote33]

June 9, 2011
GOAL has received confirmation that paper FA10 forms will still be available and accepted.

The confirmation was a letter sent to us from Jason Guida, Director of the Firearms Records Bureau.


Click Here to view the letter

GOAL will continue to work with both the FRB and our legislators in resolving the issues with the e-version of this.

We will update as information develops.

The best route would be to eliminate this "registration" completely. I suggest GOAL submit legislation ASAP to correct this. Which chapter and section of MA law requires use of this form again? Can't we just have those sections deleted out?

 

[terraformer]

The best route would be to eliminate this "registration" completely. I suggest GOAL submit legislation ASAP to correct this. Which chapter and section of MA law requires use of this form again? Can't we just have those sections deleted out?

§140 129C

 

[mousegunfan]

I'm a little confused. Do we now have to do FA10 transfers online? What if your meeting in a parking lot? Do you just take down the info and seller inputs online, no signatures? In which case the buyer has no proof of transfer if the seller fails to do the online transfer. I understand that the old fa10 can still be used for now if you can find them, but no pdf printed ones.

Sounds like they are trying to backdoor no ftf transfers.

 

[namedpipes]

Sounds like they are trying to backdoor no ftf transfers.

You got it!

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've been an advocate of a private "bill of sale" between the two parties forever. Due to no signatures on the e-FA-10 form, now it's time for everyone to jump on that same bandwagon as a CYA measure.

 

[namedpipes]

I've been an advocate of a private "bill of sale" between the two parties forever. Due to no signatures on the e-FA-10 form, now it's time for everyone to jump on that same bandwagon as a CYA measure.

I think you are saying, since you don't actually "sign" a form, that the system has less "force" or is less intrusive?

In the world of healthcare IT systems, entering a PIN or password IS the same as signing. After you you leave your doc, he dictates his report into a recorder, someone in India transcribes that to ascii text and your doc reads and "signs" the document by entering his PIN, having the same authority as signing his name with a pen.

Granted, healthcare and boomsticks are different, but it is a trend.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I think you are saying, since you don't actually "sign" a form, that the system has less "force" or is less intrusive?

In the world of healthcare IT systems, entering a PIN or password IS the same as signing. After you you leave your doc, he dictates his report into a recorder, someone in India transcribes that to ascii text and your doc reads and "signs" the document by entering his PIN, having the same authority as signing his name with a pen.

Granted, healthcare and boomsticks are different, but it is a trend.

I understand what you are saying, and Jason made that exact point to me earlier.

That said, since if I knew your name and LTC # (let's say from a prior transaction), I could "create transactions" saying that I sold you up to 4 guns . . . even though you are totally unaware of it, since it never happened! It's up to you at that point to PROVE that you don't possess them to "Johnny Law". I'm not fond of that wrt guns. Having signatures on paper is a better way of proving that something did take place, as having you sign for "Johnny Law" would show if the signature on a paper FA-10 was a forgery or not. So a BOS will have to substitute for that in the future, for those that want proof.

 

[Coyote33]

Too many hoops to jump through to exercise what is a RIGHT, and for what end? ALL of this nonsense needs to end, the sooner the better.

 

[GOAL C.M.]

we want to know who's going to validate the validity, of the validated LTC after the validation check of an already valid LTC is done.

 

[Bill Katt]

we want to know who's going to validate the validity, of the validated LTC after the validation check of an already valid LTC is done.

You just made my brain hurt....thanks....LOL

 

[namedpipes]

we want to know who's going to validate the validity, of the validated LTC after the validation check of an already valid LTC is done.

That would be Larry Fine.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm a little confused. Do we now have to do FA10 transfers online? What if your meeting in a parking lot? Do you just take down the info and seller inputs online, no signatures? In which case the buyer has no proof of transfer if the seller fails to do the online transfer. I understand that the old fa10 can still be used for now if you can find them, but no pdf printed ones.

Sounds like they are trying to backdoor no ftf transfers.

Read the whole thread......................

 

[GML]

Too many hoops to jump through to exercise what is a RIGHT, and for what end? ALL of this nonsense needs to end, the sooner the better.

Truth.

 

[BillO]

That letter says the paper FA-10 forms (sequentially numbered variety, not the PDF) will still be accepted. Does that mean they resolved their issues with getting new forms printed? I thought their excuse last summer was that they didn't own the copyright on the form and thus couldn't easily link up with a new printer.

So, no PDF FA10's?

 

[goofycj7]

Spencer PD has no forms and a notice posted stating you can download the form from the State website. I asked the lady behind the counter and she just told me that the forms were online and other people had no problems using them.
I mentioned the new electronic form and the problems with it and she had no idea about the problem and again they have no hardcopy of the forms.
Nice, I will check around tomorrow for the easy to use carbon copy type and use one of the old PDF's if I can find nothing else.

 

[Knob Creek]

Went to the local PD and asked for a numbered three part FA-10 form.

1st Cop: I don't know if we have them since I've never heard of a FA-10 form

Me: Explained it was to transfer a firearm.

2nd Cop: You have to go to a dealer to do that

Me: Explained no you don't. We had used a three part form but then the state told us to use a .pdf version which btw is on your PD's web site. Now they have gone to a online transfer or a three part form again.

2nd Cop: That's right.

Me: Wait a minute. You just said I had to go to a dealer.

2nd Cop: I did? I mean just go to the dealer and get the forms.

Me: Dealers don't use forms. They do transactions on line.

1st Cop: Well we can't help you.

Me: Yes you can. This letter says so (Gave Goal letter from State.)

3rd Cop: Well we don't know anything about this stuff. Our Firearms Officer does it all. I'll pass this letter to him and have him call you.

 

[Coyote33]

Like I asked earlier, has this even been officially announced by the state? Usually, there is a whole announcement, which includes further information and maybe even training.

 

[neEEGuru]

Is this going to turn into a situation like the Restrictions/Reasons on the LTC issue? Asking too many questions and getting too many 'clarifications'?

Stop asking and fill out FA-10's as usual and mail in? Is that an option?

 

[sig2009]

So get someone in there to fix it!

 

[namedpipes]

Like I asked earlier, has this even been officially announced by the state? Usually, there is a whole announcement, which includes further information and maybe even training.

Shemp was in charge of the announcements, but Moe whacked him a little too hard on the head and he forgot.

 

[cekim]

Shemp was in charge of the announcements, but Moe whacked him a little too hard on the head and he forgot.

Comparing them to the 3 Stooges is insulting....

... to the 3 Stooges...

 

[namedpipes]

Comparing them to the 3 Stooges is insulting....

... to the 3 Stooges...

In fairness it was only Shemp

However, my apologies to the the stooges!

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

Bump,

So has anyone gotten new numbered forms yet?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Unless you live in the backwoods, without electricity or plumbing, I doubt that you'll ever see them at a PD near you.

 

[exo]

So if I call up the FRB to request forms will they give them to me?

 

[Len-2A Training]

So if I call up the FRB to request forms will they give them to me?

Good question. Don't know, why not try it and report back what kind of response you get?

 

[neEEGuru]

Like I said... seriously... maybe we should stop asking for 'clarification' and just keep sending in the PDF FA-10's as normal....

We're going to end up with a "Restrictions: ____________ " box on out LTC's instead of a "Reasons: __________" Oh... wait...

 

[Sniper977]

OK this thread has gotten huge. What is the bottom line so far? Are we back to using printable forms or are the PD getting new "carbon copy" forms, or what? One quick concise answer please.

 

[glide]

So if I call up the FRB to request forms will they give them to me?

Good luck. I called them around the time forms started drying up. They said they would mail them to me on 3 separate occasions. I never received anything.