e-FA10. It's officially a mess!

[center442]

Also I was checking out the link and what's up with option #3 under the Registration section??

3) you possess a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun and there is no record of the weapon on file with the Firearms Records Bureau.

Good catch. I was wondering the same thing myself. Theoretically, the state only records transfers and does not register guns. I have quite a few guns that I legally possess that I'm 99% sure don't appear in their database. Am I now supposed to spend $$ to get a printout from them showing what they think I own and "register" anything that doesn't appear in their database?

It sure smells like gun registration to me.

 

[cekim]

Understanding this, they would LIKE to CONFISCATE EVERYTHING . . .

FIFY...

They are just hoping they can do it one sentence, paragraph, law at a time and the courts won't stop them (certainly the MA SJC is in agreement with the desire to carry out the British Governor's orders - if a little late).

 

[Kevlar]

It appears that FRB is overreaching a bit.

Definitely.

Innocent mistake?

Definitely not.

Yeah, they are.... they are full of s**t and move ins are fully exempt, for starters.

Well, at least for move-ins they state "use this option if...you wish to record" (still misleading, IMO), whereas in the third scenario it is strongly implied that registration of all non-listed firearms is required by law.

 

[Len-2A Training]

FIFY...

They are just hoping they can do it one sentence, paragraph, law at a time and the courts won't stop them (certainly the MA SJC is in agreement with the desire to carry out the British Governor's orders - if a little late).

I disagree in part. I don't believe that CJIS wants to confiscate . . . they need to justify their existence and budget . . . and for that they need data, lots of it.

EOPS on the other hand, I do believe would like to confiscate everything!

 

[terraformer]

Yeah, they are.... they are full of s**t and move ins are fully exempt, for starters.

-Mike

They carefully use "you wish" on #2 so objectively they are covered there. I would say that #3 is absolutely ridiculous in how it's worded. Basically they are a) making it seem mandatory and/or b) offering up a 5th amendment rights robbing carrot to anyone who actually did break the law and failed to register either out of state purchases. On the latter one, they don't offer any immunity.

 

[cekim]

I disagree in part. I don't believe that CJIS wants to confiscate . . . they need to justify their existence and budget . . . and for that they need data, lots of it.

EOPS on the other hand, I do believe would like to confiscate everything!

Eh, they know once they confiscate all the firearms, they can move their bureaucracy to the next evil thing...

There's never a shortage of ways to rule innocent men by declaring them criminals if you lack the scruples, ethics, morals, and laws to stop you from doing so.

 

[drgrant]

They carefully use "you wish" on #2 so objectively they are covered there.

Yeah, but it still more or less insinuates that you should do it. Why would they be telling you to do something if it wasn't legally required...

I would say that #3 is absolutely ridiculous in how it's worded. Basically they are a) making it seem mandatory and/or b) offering up a 5th amendment rights robbing carrot to anyone who actually did break the law and failed to register either out of state purchases. On the latter one, they don't offer any immunity.

Yes... #3 is most obnoxious in the sense that it implies that merely having a gun in the commonwealth requires that it be registered... and that simply isn't true in a lot of circumstances.

-Mike

 

[GOAL C.M.]

This new e-form has some issues that need to be addressed.

https://mircs.chs.state.ma.us/fa10/action/home?app_context=home&app_action=presentTrans

We're working on it.

 

[glide]

Now that the 'system' is online, I should be able to generate a report for all firearms that are 'registered' to me without paying a fee for the state to do it for me, correct?

 

[dwarven1]

EOPS on the other hand, I do believe would like to confiscate everything!

Thomas Gage once thought that way... he learned differently one nice April 19th.

 

[cekim]

This new e-form has some issues that need to be addressed.

https://mircs.chs.state.ma.us/fa10/action/home?app_context=home&app_action=presentTrans

We're working on it.

First issue I get is a big banner saying:
"This Connection is Untrusted"

I have to say, I agree with firefox whole heartedly that the CHSB/FRB cannot be trusted:


I cannot proceed against the advice of my browser to connect to this site as it is indicating the site is not configured correctly and may present a threat to my computer and the sensitive data on it.

 

[GOAL C.M.]

Yes, that is the first of many fails from the FRB.

Firefox is wicked smahhhhhht.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Now that the 'system' is online, I should be able to generate a report for all firearms that are 'registered' to me without paying a fee for the state to do it for me, correct?

No. Read the info I posted in the earlier thread, same topic.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Good catch. I was wondering the same thing myself. Theoretically, the state only records transfers and does not register guns. I have quite a few guns that I legally possess that I'm 99% sure don't appear in their database. Am I now supposed to spend $$ to get a printout from them showing what they think I own and "register" anything that doesn't appear in their database?

It sure smells like gun registration to me.

[. . . and to your comment in the Rep you left for me - thanks. ]

I'm with you on this.

A little history . . .

- Back ~2000 or so, BATFE invited all FFLs to a meeting at a college in Worcester where they went over the record-keeping stuff and gave the floor to Chief Glidden and FRB Director Bill Pickett. As a C&R FFL I was invited and attended.

- When Bill Pickett spoke, he handed out some sort of registration cards and suggested that everyone register all their guns with their local PD . . . just in case. I think (but don't fully recall) that he also suggested registering any guns with CHSB if you weren't sure if they were registered in the computerized system (1986 for Dealer transfers, 1998 for FTF).

- Jason Guida, current Director of FRB implied that it would be a "good thing" to register all your guns, even if not required by law, last week as well.

I have to laugh, because I'm one of those law-abiding folks that believes that the less data you give gov't the better off I will be. So, if it is actually required by law, fine, otherwise go away and don't bother me.

So with that understanding, one can understand why they INTENTIONALLY worded the instructions to strongly imply that all the sheep should do this so that their database will grow bigger. Yes, it will improve accuracy, but most of us have no desire to register all our worldly goods with the gov't!!

 

[GML]

I have to laugh, because I'm one of those law-abiding folks that believes that the less data you give gov't the better off I will be. So, if it is actually required by law, fine, otherwise go away and don't bother me.

But what if the law is in direct violation of our rights secured by the Constitution?

 

[Len-2A Training]

But what if the law is in direct violation of our rights secured by the Constitution?

They usually are!

I'll fight to get the laws changed. That's my approach, YMMV.

 

[VAA]

So what option do you use if you just finished a new AR build or 1911 build? Is that what option #3 is for under Registration? The Printable PDF may be the way to go.

 

[glide]

So what option do you use if you just finished a new AR build or 1911 build? Is that what option #3 is for under Registration? The Printable PDF may be the way to go.

[sarcasm]What AR build?[/sarcasm]

 

[wacky_doug]

It's one of the options on the right hand side. Apparently someone wised up to the fact that PDs don't actually take the physical license from people when they revoke them. It was one of the stupidities of the licensing system here.

That said, this option to validate your license is broken. It spits out a password protected PDF and the password is not anything known to the license holder.

Yeah, glad it wasn't just me.

 

[Squished]

Could the password be your PIN or is that just too obvious?

On a different note. A person who doesn't read NES, doesn't visit gun stores, and doesn't regularly visit .gov websites, yet has a pile of paper FA-10's in their house, how would they find out about this E-FA-10?

 

[IrradiatedBacon]

I dont like this... it makes their job easier, and when it comes to fscking with my rights, i want it to be as hard as possible for them.

not only that, but it opens a whole new can of worms with regards to security... given the US Governments track record to securing websites, i dont trust this one damn bit. one unvalidated parameter, and a SQL injection attack later, and the attacker has the name and address of every gun owner in the state, along with what's likely stored in their house.

i don't like this one bit.

SQL attack?? This is a MA .gov website, they are probably just opening a flat text file and appending the entry at the end.

 

[wolf223]

I dont like this... it makes their job easier, and when it comes to fscking with my rights, i want it to be as hard as possible for them.

not only that, but it opens a whole new can of worms with regards to security... given the US Governments track record to securing websites, i dont trust this one damn bit. one unvalidated parameter, and a SQL injection attack later, and the attacker has the name and address of every gun owner in the state, along with what's likely stored in their house.

i don't like this one bit.

i don't speak "computa" - but YOU win the internet. nfw do i like this either. so now we have to bring a laptop everytime we do a FTF? i think its making MORE work for US actually.

hand jam a copy and then file online? WTF?

don't get me wrong, if the person has good feedback, i'd gladly invite them over to do the e-FTF transaction. but with all the tin foil, i think most buyers would out themselves and post a thread about it on whether or not they should come over. -therefore, isolating and possibly identifying NESers.

also, what if my printer is down (it's NOT?). is there a save to PDF capability. i haven't cruised the page yet.

 

[drgrant]

On a different note. A person who doesn't read NES, doesn't visit gun stores, and doesn't regularly visit .gov websites, yet has a pile of paper FA-10's in their house, how would they find out about this E-FA-10?

They wont, and CHSB will have to keep accepting paper FA 10s whether they "like it" or not.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I dont like this... it makes their job easier, and when it comes to fscking with my rights, i want it to be as hard as possible for them.

not only that, but it opens a whole new can of worms with regards to security... given the US Governments track record to securing websites, i dont trust this one damn bit. one unvalidated parameter, and a SQL injection attack later, and the attacker has the name and address of every gun owner in the state, along with what's likely stored in their house.

i don't like this one bit.

If that server ever got hacked into it would be fun to have a nice class action lawsuit of some sort against the state.

-Mike

 

[rlee]

It is strongly recommended that you require the buyer/transferee to produce a valid FID/LTC License Validation Certificate (obtained by the buyer/transferee using this system) prior to conducting a personal sale or transfer.

Huh?

Sound a bit like a precursor to an NICS check requirement for FTF.

 

[terraformer]

Could the password be your PIN or is that just too obvious?

Give me a little credit that I would have tried that...

SQL attack?? This is a MA .gov website, they are probably just opening a flat text file and appending the entry at the end.

Hah, why bother opening when you could just do `awk $data | sed s/\t/,/; >> screwed_gun_owners.txt`...
Oh wait, that's too efficient for the .gov. They would open the file, copy the contents, insert the row about mid way up the file and then diff the old file with the new one to determine what to insert for the transaction log....

 

[Billy]

Can we still use the FA 10 and mail it in? I have heard several different answers and options.

 

[Squished]

Give me a little credit that I would have tried that...

Sorry, been a rough week. I knew you would have, but I had to suggest it anyway.

 

[BillO]

I registered my CMP Garand yesterday. All went well until I clicked on "print transaction" and got an error message. I still got a "Confirmation Ticket Number" which will have to do for now. The system needs work but I found it easy to use.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I registered my CMP Garand yesterday. All went well until I clicked on "print transaction" and got an error message. I still got a "Confirmation Ticket Number" which will have to do for now. The system needs work but I found it easy to use.

I shot off an Email to Jason about this. This needs to be fixed, ASAP! To me, my own print-out of an FA-10 is critical to my personal record-keeping.