e-FA10. It's officially a mess!

LenS said:
...
The only thing that will work (and has before) is "political heat". GOAL should contact our friends like Rep. George Peterson, etc. and then "turn us on" to do likewise, to turn up the heat under these turkeys to do the right thing, REMOVE THE WEBSITE (or eliminate FA-10's all together)[STRIKE=NO COLLECTION OF INFO!]change the website, address the security concerns[/STRIKE], and supply paper forms in quantity to every PD in MA.
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FIFY
 
GOAL C.M. said:
If they don't, please call the FRB and have them send some, as a matter of fact we should all call the FRB and request some, just saying...
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Well, I'm going to ask my local PD (and any other PD I drive by that's convenient ) for some, and the FRB. I'd bet a nickel that I don't hear anything from the FRB and none of the PDs have any.

I can't believe they sent you only 25, that's absurd. If they'd sent you a big box with 2,500, I'd have thought they actually meant to be helpful. But 25 is like saying, "here's a nickel, kid, get yourself a haircut"
 
neEEGuru said:
2) The requirement by law, if I am correct, is that you mail in the form. Period. You mail it, they mail it back, your done.
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No, unfortunately. The law requires that you submit the information on the form provided by the CHSB:

MGL Chapter 140 S128A:

in writing to the executive director of the criminal history systems board on forms furnished by said executive director
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Full text here: http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section128a
 
I'd go as far as to suggest that them returning the PDF printouts is an empty threat, at least for awhile. They are probably still getting so many of them that paying return postage back to the sender is going to rack up a nice bill for them.

-Mike
 
M1911 said:
No, unfortunately. The law requires that you submit the information on the form provided by the CHSB:
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But... the PDF *was* provided by the executive director! I downloaded off their website!

What exactly does "provided" mean, anyway?

The PDF I downloaded from the state's website is their design with all their required information on it, in the format they want.

If I wrote them a nice note on Strathmore Writing ivory laid paper, printed on a lead typeset press in 14 pt Adobe Caslon, then they could say it's not their form.

But using a PDF supplied by the state is, in my thinking, *exactly* a "form provided by the executive director"
 
drgrant said:
I'd go as far as to suggest that them returning the PDF printouts is an empty threat, at least for awhile. They are probably still getting so many of them that paying return postage back to the sender is going to rack up a nice bill for them.

-Mike
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Let's pretend they sent back a PDF form along with a new, unused three-part form. What exactly is one supposed to do with a returned form, anyway? Go find the buyer and say, "oh, hey, could you sign this please?"
 
2) The requirement by law, if I am correct, is that you mail in the form. Period. You mail it, ... [you're] done.
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Wow, that'd be awesome.

Btw, from looking at the website, it seems that if one turns in a gun at a no-questions-asked gun "buyback", that would be a transfer that the law requires an FA-10 filing.

How about appearing at a "buyback" with a stack of FA-10s and handing them out explaining that while they won't ask any questions inside, if you don't fill out this form and mail it in, they can arrest you anyway.

Just a bet less confrontational, but also fun, would be to turn in a gun at a "buyback" and demand that the transferee provide his license info, so you can finish filling in the form (which you show).

--jcr
 
milktree said:
But... the PDF *was* provided by the executive director! I downloaded off their website!
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They have updated the form in the past. Remember the old form that was 1/3 the size of an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper? I don't think you'd find a judge who would side with you if they said you have to use the "new" form.
 
M1911 said:
They have updated the form in the past. Remember the old form that was 1/3 the size of an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper? I don't think you'd find a judge who would side with you if they said you have to use the "new" form.
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While I agree with your assessment of how it would work out, (do not pass GO, do not collect $200) didn't the laws change between the older "blue form" and the current design FA10?

Furthermore, the PDF version of the current FA10 is identical to the three part form, in every way other than the serial number. The PDF can be OCR'd just like the "real" one, it's got the same data, it's in the same format, etc. It'd be hard to argue that the PDF couldn't be processed the same way as the regular form.
 
milktree said:
While I agree with your assessment of how it would work out, (do not pass GO, do not collect $200) didn't the laws change between the older "blue form" and the current design FA10?
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I don't think that particular part of the law changed in any significant way. Before Chapter 180 of the 1998 laws, you had to use their form. After Chapter 180 of the 1998 laws, you still had to use their form. Some time after that, they changed from the blue form to the current FA-10. The law itself doesn't specify the form -- that is, it doesn't specify that you have to use the FA-10. Instead, the law specifies that you have to use the form provided by the CHSB. If they say you have to use the new form, well, you probably have to use the new form.
 
M1911 said:
They have updated the form in the past. Remember the old form that was 1/3 the size of an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper? I don't think you'd find a judge who would side with you if they said you have to use the "new" form.
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Yeah, but that's an extreme example. The only real functional difference between the carbon 3 parter and the PDF thing is the PDF thing won't have a stupid "serial" number on the form itself.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Yeah, but that's an extreme example. The only real functional difference between the carbon 3 parter and the PDF thing is the PDF thing won't have a stupid "serial" number on the form itself.
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I agree that the whole thing is stupid, but the law says that you have to use their form. CHSB are the ones to decide what form is acceptable.

This whole crapstorm is just Guida screwing with gun owners because he can.
 
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I went to my local PD a couple weeks ago and they told me they don't have FA10's anymore and to get the form online.

I used the PDF version and mailed it in. Haven't heard anything yet...

YMMV
 
The key here is "provided". Availability without accessibility is hardly "providing". If the Director fails to "provide" paper FA-10's to gun owners and PD's and requires an electronic form to be submitted, I hope he is prepared to "provide" computers and internet access to make his form available to all. Requiring ownership of or access to modern computer technology and sufficient expertise to use the same in order to accomplish the ostensibly unlawful registration of guns (oh, I'm sorry, "transaction reporting") is absurd.

Imagine if welfare recipients were required to log in and validate before having their EBT cards recharged?
 
Noob here.

I am confused as to where I am supposed to get this form. The police station is supposed to have it? I am supposed to be buying a gun from a member via FTF but I have never done one of these before.
 
M1911 said:
I agree that the whole thing is stupid, but the law says that you have to use their form. CHSB are the ones to decide what form is acceptable.

This whole crapstorm is just Guida screwing with gun owners because he can.
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Yup, if they decided that it had to be on papyrus and only printed 3 forms/year, that would be the form you had to use and you'd have to wait until YOUR YEAR to obtain the form! [sad]

And I agree with your last comment, although there may be someone higher up the food chain pulling those strings.
 
Billsail said:
Tell the seller to furnish the form.
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Yes, the filing, etc, is the Seller's responsibility but I've had buyers check their local PDs for me for forms in the distant past because my PD was out. Otherwise you can't do the transfer, and that sucks for both parties.

-Mike
 
I still have an old 3 part "official" paper form with a serial #. I suppose I could print out a pile of plain paper copies of that form. They'll all have a serial # so that should meet their requirement. They'll all have the same serial #, but for the life of me I can't figure out what purpose the serial # plays in any event. Has anyone ever tried to track a transfer using the serial # from the form? If they really want a serial #, can't their software generate one when the OCR unit scans it in?

Someone needs to edit the thread title so it reads "e-FA10. It's STILL officially a mess!"
 
center442 said:
I still have an old 3 part "official" paper form with a serial #. I suppose I could print out a pile of plain paper copies of that form. They'll all have a serial # so that should meet their requirement. They'll all have the same serial #, but for the life of me I can't figure out what purpose the serial # plays in any event. Has anyone ever tried to track a transfer using the serial # from the form? If they really want a serial #, can't their software generate one when the OCR unit scans it in?
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CAREFUL!!! YOU MIGHT CAUSE THEIR HEAD TO EXPLODE!!! particularly if you like, scanned it, and used a color printer. [rofl]

-Mike
 
Perish the thought, Mike! I would never do something like that. Never, ever! Scout's honor.

Although there is a nice scanner to my left and a color laser printer to my right....

[smile]
 
center442 said:
I still have an old 3 part "official" paper form with a serial #. I suppose I could print out a pile of plain paper copies of that form. They'll all have a serial # so that should meet their requirement. They'll all have the same serial #, but for the life of me I can't figure out what purpose the serial # plays in any event. Has anyone ever tried to track a transfer using the serial # from the form? If they really want a serial #, can't their software generate one when the OCR unit scans it in?

Someone needs to edit the thread title so it reads "e-FA10. It's STILL officially a mess!"
Click to expand...

Having a ton of forms with the same serial number sounds like a good/useful twist to their game of tracking/harassment.
 
Is there a section on the classifieds where we can sell FA-10 forms? I'm looking to buy a "pre-ban" 3-part serialized form, if anyone has one they are no longer using.
 
MG2112 said:
I went to my local PD to get a FA-10. The PO told me to either download a FA-10 or use the
Massachusetts Firearms Registration and Transfer System web site

https://mircs.chs.state.ma.us/fa10/action/home?app_context=home&app_action=presentHome


I used the link above to transfer/sell firearm. Could not have been easier.
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What did it ask for, the same stuff that's on the printed FA10?

I don't like the way it promps you to enter some info then continue. I'd like to see it all at once, then I could print out the form and bring it with me to a transcation then go home and type it in online. Making the sale at the computer isn't always practical plus the thought of entering my personal information into this state site makes me kind of nervous.

New item for my GO TIME LIST: visit the MIRCS web site and tag all my guns as lost [laugh]
 
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When you try to call them to request forms, the system hangs up on you when you try to get to a live human being or to leave a message.

Nice.

Ah... It went through the second time and the recording states that they will return my call within two business days. Are they f'ing kidding me?
 

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