Duncan vs. Becarra (CA magazine ban case) -- Judge is awesome

[calsdad]

If someone drops a house on Maura and we can get our ban over turned, let's hope these guys will sell to us: From Calguns:

ONLINE SPREADSHEET OF VENDORS
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing (updated 6:44pm Saturday 30 March 2019) <--- this version is locked for editing by me
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing <--- anyone can edit this version

Will Sell
- Arizona Response Systems (AZ Surprise) <--- will sell per their online post
- Arms Unlimited (NV Las Vegas) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order; company confirmed on CalGuns they would sell
- Big Tex Outdoors (TX Conroe) <--- will sell per owner's notes in Google Spreadsheet
- Charlie Cooper's (CO Parker) <--- will sell per their Facebook post
- Gillio Firearms (CA Ventura) <--- will sell per owner's notes in Google Spreadsheet
- Grab A Gun (TX Coppell) <--- they posted a new policy saying that CA sales are good to go
- Gunfighter Tactical (CA San Diego) <--- CalGunner confirmed they would sell
- Jestice Arms (TN Colonial Heights) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order, shipping confirmation received (note: website is buggy)
- Lee's Mags (SD New Underwood) <--- will sell, but liability/burden is on the buyer
- Palmetto State Armory (SC Columbia) <--- they posted a new policy saying that CA sales are good to go
- Rainier Arms (WA Auburn) <--- will sell per their Instagram post
- RTG Parts (WY Sheridan) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order; received confirmation email
- Sacramento Black Rifle (CA Citrus Heights) <--- first come first serve (Facebook post deleted)
- Skid Tactical (TX Houston) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order; store said they would honor, but website is offline until Monday
- Tombstone Tactical (AZ Phoenix) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order and got order confirmation; however, vendor states they're having distribution issues and could take 10 days to ship
- UG Imports (CA Fremont) <--- in-person, cash sales only per their CalGuns posting

Waiting/To Be Determined e.g. 1. Vendor isn't actually canceling orders but is still reviewing with their legal council, 2. Order went through but no confirmation yet received, 3. Some vague "Stand by for updates", etc
- 2nd Amendment Guns (NV Las Vegas) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order, but no shipping confirmation yet
- Arms of America (CO Cascade) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order, but no shipping confirmation yet
- Csspecs LLC (Unknown) <--- reviewing policy per the owner's notes on Google Spreadsheet
- Discount Gun Mart (CA San Diego) <--- reviewing policy
- Elite Tactical Systems (IN South Bend) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order
- LaRue Tactical (TX Leander) <--- CalGunner successfully placed order, but no shipping confirmation yet
- MTG Firearms (CA Elk Grove) <--- reviewing policy per their Facebook post
- Primary Arms (TX Houston) <--- orders on hold; reviewing policy
- Rifle Gear (CA Fountain Valley) <--- CalGunners successfully placed orders, but store now saying they're on hold while reviewing policy

No e.g. 1. Literally cannot place an order (the system won't let you), 2. CalGunner called the store and the vendor said outright that they're not going to ship to California, 3. Vendor updated their website with some sort of notice/policy saying they wouldn't ship to California, etc
- Brownell's (IA Grinnell) <--- cannot submit order to CA zip codes
- Buds Gun Shop (KY Lexington) <--- updated their website; not shipping to CA
- Bullseye Sport (CA Riverside) <--- confirmed by CalGunner
- Cheaper Than Dirt (TX Fort Worth) <--- cannot submit order to CA zip codes
- Greg Cote LLC (FL St John's) <--- CalGunner's order was canceled
- Gun Range, The (CA North Highlands) <--- LEO sales only; confirmed by CalGunner
- Kriss USA (VA Chesapeake) <--- cannot order
- MidwayUSA (MO Columbia) <--- cannot submit order to CA zip codes
- Prepper Gun Shop (ND Grand Forks) <--- will honor previous orders, but no longer taking new orders

I just got an email today from JSE Surplus that says:

Hi Cap mags available for California Shipping!

Just received this note from one of our trusted distributors so we are ready to start sending them out too.

"On Friday, March 29, 2019, a Federal Court reviewed California Penal Code 32310, which barred the possession and sale of high capacity magazines, and determined the law to be unconstitutional. As a result, beginning immediately, customers in the state of California may purchase high capacity magazines that are greater than 10 rounds. There is no license required for these purchases.



So it looks like you can add them to the list.

 

[AntiHippie]

I’m currently stationed in CA - lots of people double checking their safes to see if they lost ALL their magazines in the last boating accident...

 

[Bonesinium]

But, by doing his due diligence, the judge here has made it that much difficult for California to bring a cogent appeal.

Sadly we both know that often times courts, and especially the 9th circuit, and particularly in regards to guns, don't care about cogent arguments.

 

[Boston4567]

Sadly we both know that often times courts, and especially the 9th circuit, and particularly in regards to guns, don't care about cogent arguments.

Yeah, but by fully developing a record and putting forth such a detailed decision, this judge has done yeoman's work towards creating a case that's ripe for SCOTUS review. It's a lot more likely that SCOTUS will grant cert to a case with a full record and a cogent, well-reasoned decision at the District Court level that is overturned at the Circuit level based on specious reasoning. It's one thing when we get a bad ruling on the law, it's another when you have the foil of a good ruling as a backdrop. It creates a clearer and starker contrast.

 

[DarthRevan]

Update the list...

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

California (not surprisingly) has already filed a request to stay the judgement: http://michellawyers.com/wp-content...-of-Ps-As-ISO-Defendants-Ex-Parte-to-Stay.pdf

In addition, to prevent a surge of large-capacity magazine (LCM) acquisitions in the State of California (the “State”) while the Court considers Defendant’s request for a stay pending the appeal, and to preserve the immediate status quo, Defendant requests that the Court issue a temporary stay until the Court rules on the application. Defendant respectfully requests that the Court issue its ruling on the temporary stay by April 2, 2019. In the event that some California residents have already purchased LCMs over the weekend, the Court has the discretion to tailor an appropriate remedy to account for those cases while otherwise maintaining the status quo.

 

[M1911]

That’s what I expected. I expect the 9th Circus to grant it the emergency stay.

 

[Dennis in MA]

It's an emergency. Blood in the streets with all of these legal residents buying normal-capacity magazines. Criminals gonna crim.

 

[June4th]

My heart warms with the thoughts that millions of real magazines will have been in California citizens' hands by the time the emergency stay is granted.

Calguns comments are pure gold:

Yea, I was thinking about this after reading CA's stay request. The judge knew what he was doing when he enjoined the law on a Friday night. He knew the floodgates would open for SCMs coming into CA over the weekend. He knew the state would request a stay on Monday, and he probably even knew what their arguments would be. He probably already has most of his response written, and I can't imagine his goal will be to screw over the very people he deliberately tried to enable on Friday night. I think he will keep the law enjoined as long as he possibly can.

For all those who brought in magazines personally from out of state, or converted low cap mags, IMMEDIATELY take a picture of yourself with your new mags in a location that is clearly in CA (perhaps in your yard with your house in the background) and email the picture to yourself to create a time stamped record in a system you do not control showing that you imported or manufactured them when it was legal to do so before a possible stay is signed.

Your honor, California citizens commonly refer to them as 'pre-stay standard capacity magazines'.

 

[silversquirrel]

So its a race now... get the stay to actually take effect vs. Inventory all sold out. GO.

 

[Boston4567]

That’s what I expected. I expect the 9th Circus to grant it the emergency stay.

First they have to request a stay from the original judge, no? I believe that's what they're doing now. Not sure how long they have to wait before they can go above his head, does anyone know?

 

[M1911]

First they have to request a stay from the original judge, no? I believe that's what they're doing now. Not sure how long they have to wait before they can go above his head, does anyone know?

I think you are correct. I hope that the original judge drags his feet and then denies the stay. Then they will have to appeal to the appellate court, who I think will grant the appeal. In the meantime, it seems like standard cap magazines are flooding into CA, which is awesome.

 

[Uzi2]

The U.S. Mail, UPS and FEDEX trucks will be running heavy with Kalifornia bound magazine shipments.

It is more than obvious that the state government of Kalifornia has forgotten what their primary function in life is, and that is to PROTECT and SECURE the rights of its citizens, NOT diminish, curtail or otherwise oppress those rights.
If they have not "forgotten" then it IS willful and deliberate....and an armed revolt against them by the citizens of the state would be lawful and justified in every way.

 

[Dennis in MA]

When the 9th agrees to the stay and then overturns this, it's going to be an absolute legal nightmare until (if) the USSC rules on this.

 

[Reptile]

When the 9th agrees to the stay and then overturns this, it's going to be an absolute legal nightmare until (if) the USSC rules on this.

Nobody will comply.

People will bring in mags by the ton and there will be no way to prove they are pre ban.

 

[drgrant]

Yeah, but by fully developing a record and putting forth such a detailed decision, this judge has done yeoman's work towards creating a case that's ripe for SCOTUS review. It's a lot more likely that SCOTUS will grant cert to a case with a full record and a cogent, well-reasoned decision at the District Court level that is overturned at the Circuit level based on specious reasoning. It's one thing when we get a bad ruling on the law, it's another when you have the foil of a good ruling as a backdrop. It creates a clearer and starker contrast.

Yes... this so much- plus if a later court/judge goes "because guns" without having an equally fleshed out argument it makes that judge or judges look like a bunch of fools in their own realm, so to speak... not that anti gun judges don't make fools of themselves (to us) on a regular basis, but this decision has great posture WRT forcing the hand of other judges, because if they ONLY go "cuz guns, public safety interest, so wah lah" without a really good explanation, it'll be more than them being labeled as anti, but some of their peers will see their lame argument and consider them weak, especially when a lower court's judge has a decision that, in "legal mechanical terms" makes their subsequent decision look like amateur hour.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

When the 9th agrees to the stay and then overturns this, it's going to be an absolute legal nightmare until (if) the USSC rules on this.

Meh. Not anything that anyone there will get worked up about... as it is there are thousands of people in CA already who basically hide their "pwee ban" mag stash at home or are already used to not using them at public ranges, etc. Pretty much nothing will happen, although it's kind of hilarious that the state can do nothing about it and truckloads of mags are going to flow into CA... yeah good luck stopping the citizens now, unless they start violating 4a and tossing houses...

-Mike

 

[Uzi2]

Meh. Not anything that anyone there will get worked up about... as it is there are thousands of people in CA already who basically hide their "pwee ban" mag stash at home or are already used to not using them at public ranges, etc. Pretty much nothing will happen, although it's kind of hilarious that the state can do nothing about it and truckloads of mags are going to flow into CA... yeah good luck stopping the citizens now, unless they start violating 4a and tossing houses...

-Mike

If they start tossing houses, thats when the shooting should begin in ernest, night and day, work or home, uniformed or not.
This shit has GOT TO STOP!!, by any means necessary.

 

[M1911]

Another vendor shipping to CA: Gun Magazines & Weapon Accessories - LA Police Gear

 

[drgrant]

I think you are correct. I hope that the original judge drags his feet and then denies the stay. Then they will have to appeal to the appellate court, who I think will grant the appeal. In the meantime, it seems like standard cap magazines are flooding into CA, which is awesome.

I hope the original judge channels Flounder....

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

That’s what I expected. I expect the 9th Circus to grant it the emergency stay.

First they have to request a stay from the original judge, no? I believe that's what they're doing now. Not sure how long they have to wait before they can go above his head, does anyone know?

Correct. The current stay requests goes to the district court and the judge who delivered this ruling. If he denies the stay, California can file for an emergency stay with the 9th Circuit.

ETA: It gladdens my heart to think about how pissed off the the California AG and Governor must be right about now.

 

[Whutmeworry]

Correct. The current stay requests goes to the district court and the judge who delivered this ruling. If he denies the stay, California can file for an emergency stay with the 9th Circuit.

ETA: It gladdens my heart to think about how pissed off the the California AG and Governor must be right about now.

Though it’s a state law at issue, I imagine Di Fi must be developing a nervous tic as well.

 

[DarthRevan]

Correct. The current stay requests goes to the district court and the judge who delivered this ruling. If he denies the stay, California can file for an emergency stay with the 9th Circuit.

ETA: It gladdens my heart to think about how pissed off the the California AG and Governor must be right about now.

I hope the judge drags his feet as long as possible as mentioned above. Flood the state.

 

[pastera]

Read through on a flight - everyone here should read this. It's written for the layperson, not a lawyer. While not binding here, it should be at least persuasive.

If Cali is smart they'll let this one die one the vine.
He clearly defines the role of the state and the state's burden for each level of scrutiny, then locks in example burdens for each level that cement the 2nd as a full right.

I pray the 9th overturns this AND dissents every one of his claims! Well, as long as SCOTUS will grant cert

 

[M1911]

ETA: It gladdens my heart to think about how pissed off the the California AG and Governor must be right about now.

The best thing about it is that it is their own over-reach that has led to the magazine ban being thrown out (at least temporarily). If they hadn't pushed to ban possession of the grandfathered magazines, this might have never happened. So it is their own damn fault they are in this mess and that now legal standard cap mags are pouring into the state, which likely has to piss them off even more.

 

[June4th]

The best thing about it is that it is their own over-reach that has led to the magazine ban being thrown out (at least temporarily). If they hadn't pushed to ban possession of the grandfathered magazines, this might have never happened. So it is their own damn fault they are in this mess and that now legal standard cap mags are pouring into the state, which likely has to piss them off even more.

In legal and legislative terminology, it’s called ‘eat a bag of loopholes and die’.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Plaintiffs are about to file their opposition to the proposed stay......

 

[Dadstoys]

The best thing about it is that it is their own over-reach that has led to the magazine ban being thrown out (at least temporarily). If they hadn't pushed to ban possession of the grandfathered magazines, this might have never happened. So it is their own damn fault they are in this mess and that now legal standard cap mags are pouring into the state, which likely has to piss them off even more.

Sort of what I'm hoping happens to our dear Maura.
I just hope I'm alive to see her face if / when it gets to a Trump supreme court.

 

[MachineHead]

How long does the judge have to make a decision? Is there a general time limit?

 

[Boston4567]

Plaintiffs are about to file their opposition to the proposed stay......

How long does the judge have to make a decision? Is there a general time limit?

I'm sure he's going to take their motion for a stayvery seriously. It will require careful consideration... perhaps a few weeks, perhaps more...