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Duncan vs. Becarra (CA magazine ban case) -- Judge is awesome
- Thread starter thormx538
- Start date
If any of you have not read the judgement document, you should do it today. It is a scathing indictment of the magazine ban backed up with Constitution references and case law. Absolutely awesome.
Varmint
NES Member
I read that 350,000 mags have been shipped to CA, but my question is, won't the state issue a retroactive mag ban, once their cronies in the 9th Circuit overturn this? It's not like they couldn't buy 30 rounders before, they just couldn't legally own them. Not sure I get it.
MachineHead
NES Member
Looks like Benitez has issued a stay on the judgment. Ban is back in effect.
View: https://youtu.be/6uKOqJd00w8
View: https://youtu.be/6uKOqJd00w8
Not until tomorrow at 5pm.
In the meantime CA has been flooded with several hundred thousand to maybe somewhere north of 1 million standard capacity magazines within the week the ruling stood. Many of which aren't date stamped, making the future enforcement of the ban for practical purposes dubious for all firearms currently in existence which can be currently owned by CA residents.
Brownells alone fulfilled 300k magazine orders and that's not even the up to date tally for them. Think of every other vendor, manufacturer, etc. combined.
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June4th
NES Member
I think Judge Benitez is playing it brilliantly here: the enthusiastic buying frenzy exhibited by the public and now the irreparable harm of the ban is in full display.
You don’t write an 86-page well researched and written opinion only to back down the first whiff of blowback.
You don’t write an 86-page well researched and written opinion only to back down the first whiff of blowback.
MachineHead
NES Member
I’m missing the 4d chess in all this. Could you please clarify?
Mass-diver
NES Member
Can’t wait to hear the total number of mags that made it in - I hope they hit a million.
This lawsuit is likely going to take another couple years before it is finally resolved. When that happens, I can see at least three possible outcomes:
1) The law is upheld and CA gun owners have to dispose of all their standard cap magazines.
2) The new law is shot down, the standard capacity magazine ban is allowed to stand, but legally owned magazines are grandfathered. Since these new magazines were legally purchased, they have to be grandfathered. That makes the entire ban almost impossible to enforce. How can you tell whether a PMAG was legally in CA on 4/5/2019 or not?
3) The decision is upheld and standard capacity magazines are held by SCOTUS to be a 2nd Amendment right.
From now until the lawsuit is finally decided, it will be very difficult for CA to enforce the previous ban. So the previous status quo is basically toast.
IANAL.
The judge is being very fair actually. What he is saying is that the import, sale, manufacture and transfer in California are prohibited after Friday at 5PM. That is equitable since the AG has written that they will challenge on appeals. If there is a chance that everything will be turned by the 9th or SCOTUS it would not be OK for the Judge to deny the stay.
However he is not recalling the stay for parts c) or d) which are the possession clauses. So any standard capacity mags in State regardless of how/when they got there are GTG.
However he is not recalling the stay for parts c) or d) which are the possession clauses. So any standard capacity mags in State regardless of how/when they got there are GTG.
Varmint
NES Member
California's 2016 law banned all std cap mags, so once this ruling is overturned, these new ones will be illegal as well.
It'll probably go to the Supreme Court next.
If the 9th Circuit overturns, the plaintiffs will request an immediate stay, pending an appeal. They will likely get one, in which case the new status quo will remain in effect. If the 9th Circuit overturns and doesn't grant a stay, it would be creating hundreds of thousands of felons overnight. I doubt that the 9th Circuit would do that.
Then the plaintiffs will appeal to SCOTUS.
Yes, it is possible that this gets overturned and all standard capacity magazines are outlawed in CA. But that isn’t the only possible outcome.
No, this was expected.
MachineHead
NES Member
So, if an unmarked box of 10,000 30rd PMAGs are driven across the state line at 1659, then they can stay in the state? Brilliant.
Does this mean that CA people can go to the range on Saturday and legally use 30rd mags in their featureless rifles?
Varmint
NES Member
Didn't CA create thousands of felons in 2016 when they banned pre-ban mags? There was a stay on that law, was it in effect up til now? I think that's what the state wants, to create felons, and they own the 9th Circuit.
Varmint
NES Member
I would think most CA AR owners already had 30 round pre-bans, but they probably didn't have std cap mags for their handguns, I bet that's what they're buying. I would!
There was a stay on that law.
Chevy 2 65
NES Member
it should not be.
This doesn’t change the CA assault weapons ban. I don’t claim to be familiar with that law. I believe it will be legal for CA gun owners to use their std cap magazines. Just what they can use them in is a different question.
Varmint
NES Member
Ok thanks, good to hear. So at 5 pm tomorrow they're just back to where they were before - selling/buying is illegal but not possession.
Huh?
It was expected.
If the AG lost, he was going to appeal and he was going to request an immediate stay. If the district judge didn’t grant the stay, then the AG would have requested an immediate stay from the Appeals court, and the Appellate Court would have granted a stay.
In fact, I think it was better that Benitez granted the stay as his stay is limited — the Appellate Court might have granted a broader stay.
The AG will likely win at the Appellate Court. The plaintiff will then appeal, either to the Appellate en band, or to SCOTUS. The plaintiff will request an immediate stay and likely be granted it.
Actually, it is better than prior, because the newly imported magazines are legal to possess under the stay, and that makes enforcement more difficult.
