• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

distance at the range

R

Rob Skully

Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
78
Likes
8
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Wife and I just got our LTC's here in MA.
We have been to the indoor range twice renting semi automatics
and to a sportsmen club 3 times with a friend using his guns at
first buy now we have our own. I got a 1911 45, 9mm shield and
a MP9 and the Wife got a Sig 938. What distance should we be
praticing at ?
thanks ...
Rob ....
 
You should practice at many distances.

Start out close, then work your way out farther. I would say most of your practice from 25' in, but work out to 25 yards occasionally.
 
If you were involved in a deadly force scenario, what distance do you think it would happen at? I would agree fully with M1911, be able to hit your target at 25to 30 yards, practice the marksmanship aspect.
I would also suggest practicing drawing, and firing as quickly and as accurately as possible at a 3-5 yard distance, because thats where its going to happen if it does.

I was schooled by Stu at Cloverleaf, he taught me the "Fuller" drill (thats what I call it when I teach it), and its the first step to true gunfighting as far as Im concerned.
 
Start as close as 10-15 feet.

I spend most of my time with my carry stuff around 20-25 feet.

I usually end my range session with some at 50-60 feet


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
GPP said:
If you were involved in a deadly force scenario, what distance do you think it would happen at? I would agree fully with M1911, be able to hit your target at 25to 30 yards, practice the marksmanship aspect.
I would also suggest practicing drawing, and firing as quickly and as accurately as possible at a 3-5 yard distance, because thats where its going to happen if it does.

I was schooled by Stu at Cloverleaf, he taught me the "Fuller" drill (thats what I call it when I teach it), and its the first step to true gunfighting as far as Im concerned.
Click to expand...

Can you describe the "Fuller" drill for us? (I plan to train with Stu at some point soon, but knowing things I can do on my own seems good too)
 
Mesatchornug said:
Can you describe the "Fuller" drill for us? (I plan to train with Stu at some point soon, but knowing things I can do on my own seems good too)
Click to expand...


To be honest (which is tough because of my profession) describing it would be extremely difficult, but Ill give it a whirl.
The basics involve being 1-2 yards away from 3 separate targets, you line up on the middle one. This is a draw and fire drill, there is no aiming (this is the part that would be unpossible to explain via text)
The goal is to put 2 shots in the torso section of each target, and one in the head of each. Total of 9 shots.
The shot count goes: 1-2-3-3-2-1-1H-2H-3H
If that makes sense.
If you get the chance, train with Stu, he is a machine, but he can actually teach, he doesnt talk at his students, he talks to them.
 
Last edited:
GPP said:
If you were involved in a deadly force scenario, what distance do you think it would happen at? I would agree fully with M1911, be able to hit your target at 25to 30 yards, practice the marksmanship aspect.
I would also suggest practicing drawing, and firing as quickly and as accurately as possible at a 3-5 yard distance, because thats where its going to happen if it does.
Click to expand...

This. I noticed that the firearms you purchased are the type of guns that you would carry or use to to defend your home so I'm assuming that personal protection is your primary goal right now. If you need to defend your life with a firearm then the bad guy is likely very close to you. The grip, draw and fire must happen quickly. You would most likely fire multiple times so just training yourself for a draw, rapid fire scenario and getting used to the trigger reset can require a lot of practice.
 
GPP said:
To be honest (which is tough because of my procession) describing it would be extremely difficult, but Ill give it a whirl.
The basics involve being 1-2 yards away from 3 separate targets, you line up on the middle one. This is a draw and fire drill, there is no aiming (this is the part that would be unpossible to explain via text)
The goal is to put 2 shots in the torso section of each target, and one in the head of each. Total of 9 shots.
The shot count goes: 1-2-3-3-2-1-1H-2H-3H
If that makes sense.
If you get the chance, train with Stu, he is a machine, but he can actually teach, he doesnt talk at his students, he talks to them.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the write-up. Sounds like a point-shooting drill, basically drawing a Z across the three targets.

If I understand it right, you're using the drill to keep your attention spread on all your threats, so you can repeatedly assess the situation. This will prevent pulling until slide-lock on threat one while the other two continue to approach unphased. Sounds like a great drill.
 
GPP said:
To be honest (which is tough because of my procession) describing it would be extremely difficult, but Ill give it a whirl.
The basics involve being 1-2 yards away from 3 separate targets, you line up on the middle one. This is a draw and fire drill, there is no aiming (this is the part that would be unpossible to explain via text)
The goal is to put 2 shots in the torso section of each target, and one in the head of each. Total of 9 shots.
The shot count goes: 1-2-3-3-2-1-1H-2H-3H
If that makes sense.
If you get the chance, train with Stu, he is a machine, but he can actually teach, he doesnt talk at his students, he talks to them.
Click to expand...

That sounds more like a version of the "El Presidente" drill that came from Jeff Cooper (IIRC). To be more precise, it sounds more like the "Vice Presidente" since in the former you face away from the targets and turn while in the latter you start facing the targets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_pistol_shooting

But whatever the drill or whatever you call it the idea should be to start slow to learn the proper techniques and gradually work to increase accuracy and speed. And finding a good instructor to work with is almost mandatory for they can help you tremendously.
 
I start at 3 yards. That'll show you where your shots are going, once you mastered getting them all in one ragged hole, move back to 5 yards. I learned this at the Sig academy and definitely helped me out. It seems close and kind of funny at first to be so close, but it shows your weak points.
 
The Shield I bought to carry. The MP9 was to play at the range but
I guess I could carry it also. The 1911 was a fluke ... My buddy let me try his and was shocked I was able to group them within a silver dollar range at 20 feet. After doing it twice I put the gun down and said I gotta get one of these ... LOL ...
So I bought one to play at the range and try a game where you shoot
bowling pins off a table. Haven't seen it done but sounds like fun.
He has been having us shoot at targets at 20 feet and less.
60 feet ? Holy crap ... I thought that was what shotguns and rifles are for ?
I will set a target at that distance next time ...
he will probably think I lost my mind :)
When I figure how to post a picture here I will post my target from Saturday.
Thanks ...
Rob ....
 
Last edited:
I practice at different ranges from right in front of me out to 25 yards, as for multiple target drills and such I have to wait until the range is empty because the Fudds get their panties in a bunch if they see you doing stuff like that!
 
Thanks ...
My buddy is shocked how well I shoot one.
I have NEVER shot a handgun in the 61 1/2 years I have lived.
Never mind shot one, I have never even handled one.
I must say they are a blast ... no pun intended.
Always played online 1st person shooters since the first
DOS based Castle Wolfenstien came out and still play them
on my Ipad. It was my Wife that made me decided to go for
our LTC's because of what happen in France and California.
So happy we did .... Now every time we go to Walmart the
first place we head to is the ammo case ... LOL ...
Also like checking out all the handguns and rifles at gun shops.
After all these years of playing online it is nice to see and handle
them in person.
Rob ...
 
GPP said:
If you were involved in a deadly force scenario, what distance do you think it would happen at? I would agree fully with M1911, be able to hit your target at 25to 30 yards, practice the marksmanship aspect.
I would also suggest practicing drawing, and firing as quickly and as accurately as possible at a 3-5 yard distance, because thats where its going to happen if it does.

I was schooled by Stu at Cloverleaf, he taught me the "Fuller" drill (thats what I call it when I teach it), and its the first step to true gunfighting as far as Im concerned.
Click to expand...

Thanks bro! I wish I could take credit for the drill... but alas... I cannot. It is called the Langdon 9 shot close speed drill. It's by Ernest Langdon, a fantastic firearms instructor.

This is me running drill:


This is Ernest explaining it:


Mesatchornug said:
Can you describe the "Fuller" drill for us? (I plan to train with Stu at some point soon, but knowing things I can do on my own seems good too)
Click to expand...

See the videos above dude. :)

GPP said:
To be honest (which is tough because of my procession) describing it would be extremely difficult, but Ill give it a whirl.
The basics involve being 1-2 yards away from 3 separate targets, you line up on the middle one. This is a draw and fire drill, there is no aiming (this is the part that would be unpossible to explain via text)
The goal is to put 2 shots in the torso section of each target, and one in the head of each. Total of 9 shots.
The shot count goes: 1-2-3-3-2-1-1H-2H-3H
If that makes sense.
If you get the chance, train with Stu, he is a machine, but he can actually teach, he doesn't talk at his students, he talks to them.
Click to expand...

<3 Thanks Glen. When I do the drill with newer students, we tend to just focus on the kinesthetic aspect of the drill... but make no mistake, you can aim and see your sights (or at least ENOUGH of your sights) to let them guide you in this drill. Too many people think you don't see anything shooting this fast. Only if it's a 'dynamic critical incident' lol.... That was sarcasm btw.

FPrice said:
That sounds more like a version of the "El Presidente" drill that came from Jeff Cooper (IIRC). To be more precise, it sounds more like the "Vice Presidente" since in the former you face away from the targets and turn while in the latter you start facing the targets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_pistol_shooting

But whatever the drill or whatever you call it the idea should be to start slow to learn the proper techniques and gradually work to increase accuracy and speed. And finding a good instructor to work with is almost mandatory for they can help you tremendously.
Click to expand...

It is not even close to an El Prez, or Vice Prez. I do 100% agree that people need to start slow. I'm fond of the idea that I don't start putting time constraints or environmental pressures on people (as a general rule) until they can put a bullet on a target or specific area of a target on demand from 1-25 yards.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
GPP said:
If you were involved in a deadly force scenario, what distance do you think it would happen at? I would agree fully with M1911, be able to hit your target at 25to 30 yards, practice the marksmanship aspect.
I would also suggest practicing drawing, and firing as quickly and as accurately as possible at a 3-5 yard distance, because thats where its going to happen if it does.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
The hold over for 9mm at 200 yards is roughly 3ft. Get to work! [grin]

The Langdon drill is a really good one as it helps quick targeting and ingrain the idea you must be ready to re-engage targets.

I focus the majority (50-75% of a range trip) shooting at 10-15 yards on paper. The rest I spend shooting a variety of distances 25-60yds steel, and I usually do at least a mag slow fire at 200yd steel.

I second taking a class from Clover if you want to get out of your comfort zone.
 
I do it as if I were at the driving range. Start on your short game and work your way out once you're happy with your progress.
 
Cloverleaf Firearms Group said:
It is not even close to an El Prez, or Vice Prez. I do 100% agree that people need to start slow. I'm fond of the idea that I don't start putting time constraints or environmental pressures on people (as a general rule) until they can put a bullet on a target or specific area of a target on demand from 1-25 yards.
Click to expand...


El pres..just for reference [grin]

 
Last edited by a moderator:
WOW ..... Kewl video .... I made 2 targets to take to the range already
so now I will make another. That looks like a lot of fun to practice.
xtry51 .... holy crap .... you shoot a handgun at 75 feet to 180 feet ....
Damm .... I be surprised if I could hit my 24" wide x 36" long paper
target at those distances. And then you slow fire at 600 feet ...
shit .... I be lucky if I hit the side of a barn at that distance.
I can't wait to go see some competition shooting !
Rob .....
 
In case no one has mentioned it yet.
If you try this without an instructor, make sure to focus keeping your booger hook off that trigger when drawing and re- holstering.
The old man used to call it the stiff finger method, I don't know what they call it now.

Even experience shooters screw the pooch now and then.



Good luck and have fun .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Most self defense shootings are around 7 feet or less.

I recommend quicker speed at closer distances 10-12 feet

Then work your way farther out 15' 20' 25' 30' 45' as far as 75' - taking more time at farther distances (for pistol)

Also once you are starting to get proficient, work on one handed shooting (each hand)
 
GPP said:
To be honest (which is tough because of my profession) describing it would be extremely difficult, but Ill give it a whirl.
The basics involve being 1-2 yards away from 3 separate targets, you line up on the middle one. This is a draw and fire drill, there is no aiming (this is the part that would be unpossible to explain via text)
The goal is to put 2 shots in the torso section of each target, and one in the head of each. Total of 9 shots.
The shot count goes: 1-2-3-3-2-1-1H-2H-3H
If that makes sense.
If you get the chance, train with Stu, he is a machine, but he can actually teach, he doesnt talk at his students, he talks to them.
Click to expand...

But does he throw the gun on the ground and stomp on it? That is money. [wink]
 
When I introduce new shooters, I tell them to walk up as close to the target as they think they should be.

Almost every time, they will stop at 10-15 yards out. I tell them to move closer, and they'll take a step or two. I tell them, "No, closer"; again, just a step or two.

By the time they get down to 5 yards, they are very hesitant to move closer. The reason is simple: the target represents the Bad Guy, one who is so dangerous that they're about to be forced to shoot him. Why on earth would they move closer to someone so dangerous?

I finally march them right up to 1 yard: just a good arm's length away. Then I explain that should they ever be forced to shoot someone in self defense, it will probably be at this range, or even less.

DGUs are from contact to 7 yards. If you're 25 yards away, you have better options than shooting.
 
DGU = Defensive Gun Use, i.e., the use of a firearm to defend ones self against a violent attack.

Which is the basis for all of the exercise and drills discussed above. How to teach a person who chooses to carry a firearm how to use it safely, effectively, and quickly.
 

Similar threads

  • Locked
To the weird guy eyeing me at the range
Replies
8
Views
652
kalash
kalash
WEIRDEST ammo+firearm incident i had at the Range yesterday.....
2
Replies
39
Views
1K
Nick Fury
Nick Fury
Rifle/ Pistol range
2
Replies
58
Views
1K
whacko
whacko
The NRA Is About to Notch Another Legal Victory at the Supreme Court
Replies
13
Views
648
groundscrapers
G
Define mid range rifle distance
2 3 4
Replies
102
Views
2K
fencer
fencer
Back
Top Bottom