***DEFINITELY NOT IMPRESSED with Para Ordnance's customer service***

[Big_Red]

I guess I should have known.

I purchased a brand new Para Ord CX745S from Dennis (First Defense Firearms) back in November. Almost immediately I noticed that something was off with the gun. The thumb safety would come out (fall out) when in safe position. My understanding is that the thumb safety can only be removed when in the in-between position. So I took the gun back to Dennis and he confirmed that indeed the safety was screwy. That was back on November 29th. The gun was sent back to PO that following Monday. Here we are on December 30 (four weeks later) and I have yet to hear anything about the gun. I finally tried calling PO today and found out that the company is closed until January 5th.

How long does it take to replace the safety in a gun? The wait time and lack of communication from PO leads me to believe that either they have no idea what they are doing to have so many returns/repairs that they simply cannot keep up. The latter (if true) speaks volumes about the quality of the product.

All I can say is that the gun better be back in super condition and with no additional problems.

Otherwise it will be ADIOS PARA.

 

[lord1234]

I hate to say this, but you shoudl consider that between 11/29 and 12/30 there has been a major holiday/vacation period. Some companies even shutdown. Call them on 1/6 and ask what the deal is, I am sure they'll have an answer. Give them the benefit of the doubt until then.

 

[Dirtypacman]

Sorry to hear of your recent experience. I have used PARA CS twice in the past and have had nothing but success and quick turnaround. Of course this did not require me to send in the gun so it could be completely different for you.

Here is hoping you get it back soon and in 100% functional/reliable condition.

 

[Fooped]

Para hugs the root in a BIG way. Dispose of that thing IMMEDIATELY.

 

[FunYun]

How long does it take to replace the safety in a gun? The wait time and lack of communication from PO leads me to believe that either they have no idea what they are doing to have so many returns/repairs that they simply cannot keep up. The latter (if true) speaks volumes about the quality of the product.

All I can say is that the gun better be back in super condition and with no additional problems.

Otherwise it will be ADIOS PARA.

First, you didn't send it in, FDF did, he will likely be the one contacted if at all.

Second, very rarely do lead times have anything to do with the actual work. You are not the only customer, therefor you wait till its your turn, not to mention the holidays.

Did you actualy look to see what was wrong, or did you just send it off?

 

[clinotus]

.

 

[CRSIII]

Para hugs the root in a BIG way. Dispose of that thing IMMEDIATELY.

 

[The Goose]

Para customer service just plain sucks, period. Some one always wants to make an excuse for them, but they just plain suck. If someone had a good experience, that's great, they still suck. You got a good gun from them , that's great, they still suck. I have bought more then my share of guns from different manufacturers. Some have been defective and I have sent them back. The absolute worst customer service I have ever experienced was with Para, and more then once. Which I guess makes me a fool. Never again.

S&W, Sig, MSAR have turned around problems in LESS then one week, even during holiday time.

So now some wag will post how much he loves his Para and the great service that he has received. I do not care, they SUCK! You were lucky. Keep dancing with the devil and you will get burned.

 

[Gammon]

Para customer service just plain sucks, period. Some one always wants to make an excuse for them, but they just plain suck. If someone had a good experience, that's great, they still suck. You got a good gun from them , that's great, they still suck. I have bought more then my share of guns from different manufacturers. Some have been defective and I have sent them back. The absolute worst customer service I have ever experienced was with Para, and more then once. Which I guess makes me a fool. Never again.

S&W, Sig, MSAR have turned around problems in LESS then one week, even during holiday time.

So now some wag will post how much he loves his Para and the great service that he has received. I do not care, they SUCK! You were lucky. Keep dancing with the devil and you will get burned.

+1 I will never buy another Para product.

 

[Jake L]

Sell or trade the Para as soon as you get it back. S&W is making one of the best current 1911 guns.
I was just doing some work on a Colt and if you compare S&W to Colt the Colt is like junk when you strip it down and compare and the Colt was a real nice gun. The Para is even worse when you compare and the parts Para uses are 3rd. rate at least the Colt parts are top notch.

 

[Negotiator]

+1 I will never buy another Para product.

I have a couple of Para handguns - one used to be a carry gun - .45" Carry 12 LDA. That was until the hammer sheared in two at the range. Gun was about 6 months old with less than 1000 rounds through it. Para fixed it - took six weeks - and when I got it back the ejector didn't work. Compared to my Sig's, they are junk, absolute junk.

 

[bambame2]

I have a couple of Para handguns - one used to be a carry gun - .45" Carry 12 LDA. That was until the hammer sheared in two at the range. Gun was about 6 months old with less than 1000 rounds through it. Para fixed it - took six weeks - and when I got it back the ejector didn't work. Compared to my Sig's, they are junk, absolute junk.

Ya but in all fairness everything is junk compared to Sig.

 

[mark056]

I do not use Para-Ordnance products not do I plan to in the future, but as has already been pointed out, many manufacturing companies in all sectors close during the November or December time-frame or run with minimum staffing so it is not unusual to find customer service at the manufacturer level to be spotty this time of year.

To bambame2's observation regading SIGs, I can only say that working for an agency that has over 2300 of them in their inventory, that it is very dangerous to generalize about any manufacturer. All the major gun companies produce some very fine firearms, but all of them also produce some real junk. S&W continues to amaze me as overall they have improved signifcantly from the low point in the 1970's, yet the last two new S&W guns I purchased (a Thunder Ranch .45 Revolver and a Model 22 of 1917) both had to go back to the factory to correct things, on the TR the pin that held the front sight fell out, and on the Model 22 of 1917 it was the absolutely piss-poor nickel plating job they did; the nickel was flaking and peeling off the backstrap and this was a brand new gun. (S&W replated it, and it is fine. BTW with faux ivory grips and an Old El Paso Saddlery Tooled Holster, I can't wait to wear it at a BBQ )..so the point is everbody makes lemons. Apparently Para-Ordnance has a tendency not to make quality arms or they send their junky ones to Massachusetts. I know that they have been the darling of gun-writers ever since they came on the scene with their wide body 1911's. I guess they must have given out a lot of freebies to the hacks that scribble for the gun rags.

Were I to purchase a new 1911 in Massachusetts today it would be a Smith and Wesson. I don't have to, however, because I have my Colt purchased some 23 years ago.

Mark L.

 

[chris_1001]

Sell or trade the Para as soon as you get it back. S&W is making one of the best current 1911 guns.
I was just doing some work on a Colt and if you compare S&W to Colt the Colt is like junk when you strip it down and compare and the Colt was a real nice gun. The Para is even worse when you compare and the parts Para uses are 3rd. rate at least the Colt parts are top notch.

Bought a Para LTC, FTF every round. Retuned it and bought a S&W 1911PD. I have yet to shoot the Smith, but I'm SOOOOO much happier now.

Nor would it even chamber some types of ammo.

I don’t trust Para’s anymore. I did not even bother with sending it in. I did not want that back…

So I agree 100% with JDL Sales

 

[Big_Red]

First, you didn't send it in, FDF did, he will likely be the one contacted if at all.

I checked and he wasn't. He sent an email as well and received no response.

Second, very rarely do lead times have anything to do with the actual work. You are not the only customer, therefor you wait till its your turn, not to mention the holidays.

I am going by what I experienced with S&W. They had my gun fixed in less than a week.

Did you actually look to see what was wrong, or did you just send it off?

Yes, the thumb safety fell out and continued to do so every time the gun was locked and cocked or when the slide was being racked backed.

 

[Big_Red]

Sell or trade the Para as soon as you get it back. S&W is making one of the best current 1911 guns.
I was just doing some work on a Colt and if you compare S&W to Colt the Colt is like junk when you strip it down and compare and the Colt was a real nice gun. The Para is even worse when you compare and the parts Para uses are 3rd. rate at least the Colt parts are top notch.

I already have a SW 1911 and love it. I just wanted a 1911-like gun with a 3.5 inch barrel. Who other than Para offers a new 3.5 inch 1911 in MA? Seems to me that I don't have too many choices.

 

[dwarven1]

As predicted, there are some of us who are very happy with their Paras, AND with Para CS. Count me in that camp. I love my P12-45, and have no intention of ever selling it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I guess they must have given out a lot of freebies to the hacks that scribble for the gun rags.

More likely it's all the ads they buy. It's like making campaign contributions to a Chicago politician - there is no need to explicitly state any quid pro quo, but the editors know that happy advertisers continue buying and unhappy ones don't.

I do some projects for some high end gun companies that don't buy full page ads, so they tend not to get much coverage. I'm noticing upstarts that are smaller, and don't even manufacture some major components such as frames and barrels in-house, get feature articles that just happen to come out in the same issue as their full page ads.

Gun magazine articles covering in-production firearms prove only one thing: The covered company is a buyer of advertising space, or considered a strong prospect for such ads.

 

[drgrant]

IMO with paras you are better off using a competent local gunsmith to fix, especially if you intend on keeping the things. They can replace the junk parts with better ones and likely turn the gun around faster.

-Mike

 

[alsipd]

I bought a 14-45 new not so long ago and it had all sorts of problems. I took it apart and found that all of the internal fire control parts were "pot metal" with no machining to speak of. I weighed sending the gun back, but did not want more "junk" parts so I replaced them with EGW internals. The gun is ultra reliable and shoot as well as any other 1911 I have ever owned including the S&W. Sending the gun back would have cost me almost as much as the new parts cost so I bit the bullet and I am extremely happy with the gun in its new form. I wanted a higher capacity 45 auto and now I have one I can rely on.

Just my $.02

 

[Gammon]

I already have a SW 1911 and love it. I just wanted a 1911-like gun with a 3.5 inch barrel. Who other than Para offers a new 3.5 inch 1911 in MA? Seems to me that I don't have too many choices.

I bought a Para LDA Carry Model in .45 with the 3 inch barrel. The slide cracked at the front sight dovetail after 200 rounds of Federal 230 gr ammo. Para replaced the slide, but their response to me on our first conversation was "We'll see" when asked if they would replace the slide. Their reluctance to replace the original slide leaves me in doubt as to whether they will replace the second slide should it fail. This is a real problem because short .45s are hard on parts. I wouldn't bet on a Para, you'll be sorry.

 

[Big_Red]

I finally got an update (after 5 weeks) thanks to Shelly from First Defense Firearms. It turns out that the frame has to be replaced because there was a hole in the sear. I do not even know what that means. Anyhow, they said that it could be another couple of weeks before I get it back.

 

[Dirtypacman]

I finally got an update (after 5 weeks) thanks to Shelly from First Defense Firearms. It turns out that the frame has to be replaced because there was a hole in the sear. I do not even know what that means. Anyhow, they said that it could be another couple of weeks before I get it back.

Thanks for the update ... let us know how it all turns out. Here's hoping the best for you.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It turns out that the frame has to be replaced because there was a hole in the sear.

In English, please. 1911 sears always have a hole

 

[C-pher]

I must be one of the few...as well as two people that I know.

I had an issue with my P10-45. I called Para, again this was about 4 years ago...but I called and got an RMA. I sent it in on Saturday, next day. I got it back that following Thrusday and went to the range. It was shooting wonderfuly.

I have about 10 Para's...but they are all older one. Pre-Power Extractor...and I've not had a thing to say about any of them. Hell, everyone that's shot them has had nothing to say about them.

Now, since the re-design some time ago....I can't speak for them...but two guys I used to work with both sent a pistol back for one thing or another, and they both had good Customer Service and a week's turn around time.

I must be one of those dinks that will have something good to say....but then, there's always someone that had a bad experience and will poo-poo everything about it no matter what.

So, like them...I don't care what you say, I love my Para's.

 

[dwarven1]

I must be one of the few...as well as two people that I know.

I bet I'm one of those two.

I will say this, though... I'd guess that Para has some issues with their frames, since my P10 had a cracked frame rail that was causing the FTFs and FTEs. While Para DID replace the frame - and we're talking a TWO DAY TURNAROUND here (shipped it in on Monday, had it back on Thursday) - it does trouble me that the frame did crack. Now, this was an alloy frame. My P12 has a stainless frame, and while it's much heavier, I've had no trouble whatsoever with it.

Nonetheless... It's still one of my carry guns and I do NOT have any qualms about it's reliability.

 

[clinotus]

MassMark is the third Para owner sans issues.

You 3 out of 30,000.

 

[pdm]

Myself as well. No issues with my single stack 1911 from PO.

 

[Big_Red]

Latest update 01/27/09

Almost 9 weeks waiting and still nothing form PO. Shelly from First Defense Firearms is keeping an eye on this issue and the latest update I received from her indicated that the gun "might" be shipping soon, perhaps this week. Still, she was unable to get a straight answer even though she spoke to three different managers. She also inquired whether PO would consider throwing in something extra for my troubles (a free mag) since this was a brand new gun and obviously was not properly inspected before being shipped out for distribution. Not to mention that the wait time has been excessive. Para's answer to that was; "We are not charging the customer for shipping and we normally do". So I guess they are making this whole experience REALLY SPECIAL by not charging shipping. Wow! I am at a loss for words here.

What I do not understand is why Para won't just send me a brand new gun. They are replacing the frame which means that I will have to register this gun as new. Hello! Anyone awake over at Para?

My mind is made up at this point. NO MORE PARA for me. I would rather buy a crappy gun from a company providing super customer service than to buy an OK gun from a company that shits on its customers.

 

[chris_1001]

That sucks... I was lucky and returned mine for a full refund...

Screw PO, there are better choices... And to think, I wanted a Warthawg (but then did some research)... No more...

Hope you get it back working...

Free shipping should be standard on a new gun sent in for repair... Period!