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Dash Cam: Canton, OH PD "Notification" Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk
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![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
![[hmmm]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/009.gif "Hmm [hmmm]")
namedpipes
NES Member
Awesome!!front page foxnews now![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
W
wolf223
i would have lit up a winston red, thrown the gun on the dash....
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-There's no evidence to show he was picking up a hooker. Oh, a lady was talking to a guy in a car through the passenger window, must be a hooker, can't possibly be someone he knew. Back when I was younger I used to stop and talk to people I knew when I was cruising around town. I never had a LEO try to hook me up for soliciting a prostitute. Closest I ever got to that was a Fitchburg LEO telling me and a friend "hey you guys shouldn't be in this parking lot after the lights go out... (the stores had closed in this strip mall and a friend and I were parked alongside one another and just bullshitting) move along please". It wasn't a big deal. The LEO didn't instantly assume we were selling drugs or something similarly insane like that.
-I think this particular LEO hates licensed carriers. I would not be surprised in the least if this was the only time he went full retard on someone with a CCW. This is the kind of LEO that probably disarms every CCW holder he can during a stop, simply because he can. (A FOIA request of complaints against this officer would probably bear my theory out here).
-In the eyes of the law you might be able to levy a weak argument that she was soliciting, but there's no evidence that the guy was a "john" unless cops witnessed money changing hands. Even then that's still only PC unless it was a coordinated sting or something. Why do you think law enforcement goes to great lengths to set up prostitution stings? Because a lady getting handed a wad of cash without the whole contex in play as evidence is not anywhere near enough to secure a conviction. A jury is not going to suck for "bbbbbut we saw him handing her the money!!!" Even the dumbest jury
is going to ask "Well, what was the money for, can you tell us that?" (they obviously can't ask it directly, but it begs the question).
It's none of the cops business what a free person does unless they're actually breaking the law. The most I see here is possibly a traffic citation if the guy was stopped somewhere he shouldn't have been stopped. Even then it's only a civil infraction.
BTW even if the intent was to get the guy to leave (and I'm putting the legal/formal legitimacy of the LEO's ability to do that aside for the moment) I can think of a far more professional way to get the desired behavior out of the interviewee than telling the guy I could shoot him and get away with it (which is basically what this guy did here). Instead of shaking this guy down he could have asked him to move along or something like that.
FTR I'm nowhere near "anti cop". I have friends in law enforcement in different capacities. Most of them would think this guy is an a**h***. The problem with bad cops is that the way the system is set up the good cops are pretty much powerless to do anything about the bad ones, at least if they want to keep their job. (As a fun example of this, look at what that ATF whistleblower is going through, the ATF is trying to/has forced him out, despite the fact of the feds having some whistleblower protection regs on the books). As a generality most LEOs are decent people. It's that 10-20%, or the fully corrupt police departments (say for example, NOPD, or groups like the NY port authority cops) that make the whole lot look bad. The problem is over time the number of bad LEOs are growing, and pushing away good people from the field as a result. The legislators are also enabling bad LEOs by virtue of the legislation they support. It's all the Malum Prohibitum bulls**t on the books that make people hate the police in general. If we didn't have so many laws regulating behavior that doesn't actually directly affect someone, we wouldn't have this problem.
I'll give you a little homework assignment...... go look up "Peel Principles". It was a code of ethics commonly adopted
in British (and subsequently) American law enforcement. Do you think what this LEO did is in alignment with those
principles?
-Mike
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beaker
NES Member
Here is the local news story...
http://www.cantonrep.com/topstories/x121489646/Canton-officer-under-investigation-after-concealed-carry-arrest
Jalopnik, some of the comments may make you ill...
http://jalopnik.com/5823543/cop-threatens-to-execute-driver-over-concealed-weapon-permit
Two news sources also say failing to notify is a misdemeanor in Ohio, maybe Patrolman Harless should read up on the laws he is supposed to be enforcing since he repeated that it would be a felony... I can't see how he isn't going to get canned given all of the attention it is getting. He can't deny anything at this point...
Oh boy...The Union reaction:
UNION REACTS
Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen’s Association, has watched the video of the June incident.
“Obviously whatever transpired on that video is an isolated incident,” Adams said. “It happened and it’s being handled properly right now and the chief is doing what he feels is necessary.”
Adams said calls involving guns can be emotional and dangerous situations, but he wasn’t condoning anything that might have happened on the recording.
“We’re a very well-trained and well-rounded police department that has solid officers that can make good, solid decisions every day,” he said. “You can’t (take) one incident like this and make it like every (officer) is out of control.”
http://www.cantonrep.com/topstories/x121489646/Canton-officer-under-investigation-after-concealed-carry-arrest
Jalopnik, some of the comments may make you ill...
http://jalopnik.com/5823543/cop-threatens-to-execute-driver-over-concealed-weapon-permit
Two news sources also say failing to notify is a misdemeanor in Ohio, maybe Patrolman Harless should read up on the laws he is supposed to be enforcing since he repeated that it would be a felony... I can't see how he isn't going to get canned given all of the attention it is getting. He can't deny anything at this point...
Oh boy...The Union reaction:
UNION REACTS
Bill Adams, president of the Canton Police Patrolmen’s Association, has watched the video of the June incident.
“Obviously whatever transpired on that video is an isolated incident,” Adams said. “It happened and it’s being handled properly right now and the chief is doing what he feels is necessary.”
Adams said calls involving guns can be emotional and dangerous situations, but he wasn’t condoning anything that might have happened on the recording.
“We’re a very well-trained and well-rounded police department that has solid officers that can make good, solid decisions every day,” he said. “You can’t (take) one incident like this and make it like every (officer) is out of control.”
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JuergenG
NES Member
Why is it, that whenever a Cop in the U.S. goes berzerk someone tries to associate his less
than standard behaviour to Germany? In poor German to boot....
J
Jose
Godwin's Law
I could be wrong here but it seems to me police in most W European countries are a little bit less high strung than here
Unfortunately the relatively brief twelve year period of German history known as the Third Reich has left indelible memories on many people in the rest of the world, rightly or wrongly. It is a far too complex issue to be adequately addressed or even debated on an internet forum such as this.
I would rather that people look at Germany in the context of cultural and scientific achievements in the context of a 2,000 year history, but that is not going to happen in the near future. Very few Germans living today were even alive during the National Socialist Period, but the popular culture image persists, sadly and then there is Godwin's law, which only tends muddy the waters because frequently when valid analogies or comparisons are made regarding a particular incident and National Socialist Period, people will invoke this in internet postings to trivialize and ridicule a poster, it becomes a good ad hom attack strategy. The irony, of course, is that at least IMO Godwin's Law addresses your concern, but is frequently misapplied by those who wish to invoke it under the guise of some intellectual superiority.
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Boghog1
NES Member
oh thank heavens, it was just another isolated incident, wasn't it a Canton cop that killed his wife/girlfriend/baby momma a couple of years ago?
Anger management classes needed.
Some folks here had suggested that nothing would happen to the officer. Given the tenor of the statements, it sounds as though the chief and union are setting themselves up to be able to fire the guy. Time will tell.
I certainly agree that what the guy did was indefensible, but I expected more weasel words, especially from the union.
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Jamie
NES Member
Bull. Unemployment and legal action against a rogue cop are needed.
The guys is a ticking time bomb and I would like to think that upon seeing him in action his department realized this. On the tape he threatens to shoot the dude in the mouth. Last I checked threatening to shoot somebody, especially while you have a gun in your possession is a crime. YMMV
![[puke]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/023.gif "Puke [puke]")
His partner didn't do "nothing". It seemed to me that he was agreeing with the dbag in parts of the video. He's at the very least an accessory to this crime and yes, he needs to go down too.
Back on topic about the cop's actions, ok. People described this exact same behavior in Seung-hui Cho and Jared Lee Loughner and brushed it off as "just having a bad day" or "it's none of my business, I don't want to get involved". Look how those two people turned out. On thop of that, this officer (and his partner) had a sworn duty to protect this man's rights.
A police officer threatening to murder someone, and his partner who acts like this is a normal day's work (the partner didn't display one ounce of surprise when the officer was threatening to murder this guy) is inexcuseable no matter what this guy did before hand. The partner's reactions make it seem like this was not the first time this has happened. Both of them should be fired immediately, and the officer who made the threats should be brought up on charges, period.
I've been following the thread and this story as a whole makes me sick. However, between the heat and me not sleeping well last night my reading comprehension may be a bit off this am. However, by not living up to the obligation of stopping his partner, is that something that he can be charged with (I honestly don't know if that's a crime or not) or should he be charged as an accessory or can he be charged with both?
...I hope I'm making some sense here...gonna go make some coffee now, I haven't had any yet.
...I hope I'm making some sense here...gonna go make some coffee now, I haven't had any yet.
namedpipes
NES Member
I have to apoligize in advance if this is a silly observation. My own experience with law enforcement is limited to what I see on TV and from 50 or 60 or so traffic stops during a misspent youth.
The second officer searched the car. He physically entered a closed environment where a potential bad guy had control (keys, ability to drive away and a gun). It just seems to me, if *I* were an officer and planned to search a vehicle, all of the occupants would be removed, at least cursorily searched and be physically distant from the vehicle. One potential bad guy was cuffed (for some reason I missed), two potential bad guys were standing nearby, maybe searched, may not and one potential bad guy, not even QUESTIONED as yet, still remained in control of the vehicle the officer was searching.
I'm the first to admit my knowledge of tactics and strategy is from books and entertainment media. That isn't my area of expertise. But wouldn't this be a kind of glaring mistake on the part of both officers, but especially the one searching the vehicle? Isn't THAT the sort of training that gets cops killed?
If this had been a "real" bad guy, the night could have ended much differently and prematurely for both officers, and through their OWN poor training.
All of the above IMHO.
I've read about cases in which cops were charged with not stopping a beating by another cop.
Probably depends on the department and state/local laws or whatever.
