CO's Considered LEO's?

[KBCraig]

Most of the discussion has been about county and state COs, but Federal Bureau of Prisons personnel are LEOs with arrest authority. Not for violations of state law, obviously.

Oh, and it's all personnel, not just COs. Someone with a BOP ID card that says "secretary" or "counselor" has all the same authority, and undergoes all the same training. The only personnel not authorized to carry firearms (both on duty, and under LEOSA) are chaplains, physicians, and Public Health System personnel who are assigned to the prison. Everyone else is required to qualify annually with firearms.

 

[asquared]

Riding Motorcycles in parades and diverting federal funds away from legitimate state/municipal POLICE agencies to buy Boats/ATVs/Mobile Command Centers that have nothing to do with inmate custody and care is illegal. Just ask NEMLEC and Middlesex Sheriff.

You never know when you might need to patrol the county's waterways instead of keeping enough staff on the line.

 

[Jose]

full-time DOC and County C.O.'s earn Full-tme respect from the majority of Police Officers.
conversely, they are not considered LEO by most cops or by statute.

Deputy Sheriffs do have some limited police powers for "breach of peace" offenses. Out of this common law power they have the ability to enforce some Chapter 90 civil motor vehicle laws that arise to "breach of peace" offenses.
(see Comm v. Baez)

Having established that, they have no specific STATUTORY authority to perform patrol functions. They have no established policies/procedures for 911 patrol response within their respective jurisdictions. In the two cases where sheriffs attempted to provide city patrol functions it went away quickly and quietly because they were simply NOT set up or trained properly to answer 911 calls for service.
In Massachusetts, the PRIMARY function of CO's working for the State (DOC) or County (sheriff) is the custody and care of inmates.

Riding Motorcycles in parades and diverting federal funds away from legitimate state/municipal POLICE agencies to buy Boats/ATVs/Mobile Command Centers that have nothing to do with inmate custody and care is illegal. Just ask NEMLEC and Middlesex Sheriff.

That may be so in your little corner of the country.

Quite the opposite elsewhere.

 

[MJL0618]

That may be so in your little corner of the country.

Quite the opposite elsewhere.

It seems mpd isn't up to date. First off being a CO is a lot harder than being a police officer IMO. PO's have guns tasers and night sticks. What do we have. Some towns run into dangerous people once in a while, if ever (aside from really bad areas). We deal with convicted felons, Murderers, rapists, drug dealers, all around shit bags. Murderers who won't think twice about cutting your throat. They're already down for life. And what do we have for protection a radio and handcuffs. So Mpd with all due respect get your head out of you know where. That is all.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

It seems mpd isn't up to date. First off being a CO is a lot harder than being a police officer IMO. PO's have guns tasers and night sticks. What do we have. Some towns run into dangerous people once in a while, if ever (aside from really bad areas). We deal with convicted felons, Murderers, rapists, drug dealers, all around shit bags. Murderers who won't think twice about cutting your throat. They're already down for life. And what do we have for protection a radio and handcuffs. So Mpd with all due respect get your head out of you know where. That is all.

I dont see where mpd said being a PO was harder than being a CO. I believe he was speaking in reference to powers of arrest and the duties of sheriff's in MA.

 

[M1911]

That may be so in your little corner of the country.

Quite the opposite elsewhere.

Yup, in the Midwest, there are large parts of the states that are not incorporated into towns, where the Sheriff Department is the primary law enforcement agency.

 

[mpd61]

I certainly hold C.O.'s in VERY high regard. As soon as the State DOC hurries up and absorbs the County jails, then we can pretty much stop worrying about part-time deputy hacks. MJL0618 you keep right on holding you head high buddy. Whether or not everyday is like OZ for you or not isn't important. What is evident is how much you need to jump on the anti-cop bandwagon. Thanks again for reminding everybody out here how "donuts & details easy" my profession is.

 

[Jose]

Yup, in the Midwest, there are large parts of the states that are not incorporated into towns, where the Sheriff Department is the primary law enforcement agency.

That's true of any rural/semi suburban area, actually, not just in the midwest but in NYS, PA, all over the south, California, the intermountain west, and the PNW.

 

[Serapis]

I know sheriffs are very powerful in Florida. I found out the hard way a long time ago when I was in the Navy.

It's amazing they get reduced to nothing around here while in most of the country they are the top LE agency. Another thing in Mass that's backwards, I guess.

 

[M1911]

I know sheriffs are very powerful in Florida. I found out the hard way a long time ago when I was in the Navy.

It's amazing they get reduced to nothing around here while in most of the country they are the top LE agency. Another thing in Mass that's backwards, I guess.

In MA, there basically are no unincorporated areas. Every bit of land here is part of a town. That isn't true in MA. There just isn't a need for the Sheriff Departments here to be a traditional law enforcement agency. I wouldn't call the MA approach "backwards." Our situation is just different than in many states.

 

[ochmude]

In MA, there basically are no unincorporated areas. Every bit of land here is part of a town. That isn't true in MA. There just isn't a need for the Sheriff Departments here to be a traditional law enforcement agency. I wouldn't call the MA approach "backwards." Our situation is just different than in many states.

Even in incorporated areas where I grew up the sheriff's office was a big deal. I know in Rock Island County, IL, the office of the sheriff was the senior law enforcement entity for the county and actively patrolled the entire county whether incorporated or unincorporated. Their efforts were also typically more warmly received by the public as well, since the sheriff was elected by the residents of the county, rather than appointed by a mayor or city manager.

 

[Serapis]

Even in incorporated areas where I grew up the sheriff's office was a big deal. I know in Rock Island County, IL, the office of the sheriff was the senior law enforcement entity for the county and actively patrolled the entire county whether incorporated or unincorporated. Their efforts were also typically more warmly received by the public as well, since the sheriff was elected by the residents of the county, rather than appointed by a mayor or city manager.

Yes very true. Jacksonville, FL is the same way. Sheriffs are not restricted to just the the unincorporated areas. They are the leading LE for that county. Think of them on the MA Staties level for those counties.

 

[Serapis]

I grew up in Texas and you never crossed the sheriffs. The local PD was kind of not significant, and that's in a suburban setting.

 

[weekendracer]

I was read somewhere that Mass Public Safety now recognizes State COs as LEO.
I have always considered COs part of the LEO community, even though most cops will deny that they are.

The pecking order generally works like this:

FBI looks down on every other agency.

Other Fed agencies look down on each other and state agencies.

State agencies look down on the local (city, town, county).

Locals look down on the screws (State and county.)

State screws look down on County screws.

County screws look down on the hacks.

The hacks look down on everyone, including the FBI, because they have no clue and think they are Super Cops!

You will get a bunch of varying answers here, due to our diverse membership and this IS Massachusetts. Unlike California, where State COs are Peace Officers by statute, just in a different category.

For the record, not all feds look down on locals. Not everyone is willing to move across the country on a whim.
The 6'4" 250+ statie that backed me up on a bar fight call, definately didn't look down on him.

 

[Jaxon]

For the record, not all feds look down on locals.

True dat. All the Alphabet Feds were great to work with (back in the day), EXCEPT the Bureau.

 

[Jose]

In MA, there basically are no unincorporated areas. Every bit of land here is part of a town. That isn't true in MA. There just isn't a need for the Sheriff Departments here to be a traditional law enforcement agency. I wouldn't call the MA approach "backwards." Our situation is just different than in many states.

Dade County in south FL has virtually no unincorporated areas left yet the Dade County Police (now Metro Dade Police) has a huge presence in partnertship with the Miami PD and all the other municipal departments in the county. Same situation exists with the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Office.

The city and county of Jacksonville, FL PD is one and the same. They patrol everything. Same with the city of Indianapolis/Marion County Indiana.

 

[typennies]

It all depends on who you talk to and what the situation is. As a former CO I know that this is a conflicting question.First, one must Define LEO.. Law Enforcement Officer. Well, by definition they are because the enforce the law. It may be on the inside but it is getting done nonetheless. I read someones post about "well they only carry guns while transporting etc"...what do firearms have to do with it? CO's can walk in to any MA firearms shop and purchase from the LEO section just by showing their ID. I know this b/c I have done it many times.

Police Officers have Chapter 90 and enforce the law on the outside. As a CO wouldnt be prepared to do this on the outside, a PO would have no idea what to do on the inside. It all comes down to training. One is trained in one area as the other is trained in his/her respective field.

I guess what I am trying to say is, go tell a CO up at Cedar Junction who will spend more than 8 yrs out of his 20 inside trying to keep the peace and enforce the LAW that he/she is not an LEO. It is truly unfair that CO's get treated like the red-headed step children of the LE field b/c it takes a special kind person to do this job folks.

 

[Kisspik002]

I don't mean to offend anyone but I am a co with the sheriifs dep (8 years, dept academy and reserve acadamey) and I know all about the debates but that aside, when it comes to buying firearms we are considered LEO. I have bought many MA banned guns being. LEO. I know the debate with cops and co's I'm not looking to argue but in most cases we are considered LEO. sherrifs dept can be deputized and we are NOT cops but I would like to think that we are all law enforcement brothers. Just my two cents to all my cop brothers I know were not cops it's the select few that write checks that give all of us a bad name

 

[Deleted member 22390]

not to bring up a dead thread but i feel i have to throw my 2 cents in. I work for a sheriffs dept in MA. We have officers who are just corrections officers and we have other officers who are deputy sheriffs. They have arrest powers, drive marked cruisers, carry weapons, do traffic details and we have a SWAT team and warrant apprehension teams and K9 units who provide mutual aid. If your a CO you have to go to a reserve police academy in order to get deputized. But the CO's still carry guns wether it be going to a outside hospital trip or outside patrol duties. The cruisers all say sheriffs dept on them. so wether your a CO or dept sheriff and your heading somewhere in the cruiser, if a car is crashed on the side of the highway there still going to stop and provide assistance and use the bapern radios to call for help. I do consider CO's LEO's. If you a CO your still enforcing laws within the prison, murder, rape, assaults ect ect those are all mass general laws that your enforcing and even going to court to testify to. As far as buying guns, (im a co, working towards getting deputized) Iv boughten police issue glocks from dealers, even if im a CO i still carry a firearm on patrol and other official duties and I just stated that the firearm i was purchasing was a back up firearm for duty use ( glock 26).

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It all depends on who you talk to and what the situation is.

The real tests:

- Is the individual covered by LEOSA once (s)he has the required time on the job?

- Is the individual exempted from laws that apply to non-LEOS, but specifically exempt police officers (for example, the MGL 269-10j ban on carry on one's person on school grounds)?

- Will the individual be allowed to be armed in state facilities where policy is that all non-LEO must be disarmed, but LEO may carry (courthouses, state house, EOPS building, etc.)

- Is someone who commits an offense against such an individual (for example, assault) subject to any of the additional penalties for "upon a police officer"?

The above are objective questions, not cultural conclusions subject to discussion. The answer to each one is "Yes" or "No" and is based soley on the question "Is the individual a LE officer?".

 

[Kisspik002]

In terms of leosa corrections whether DOC or county from what I have been told by some in my department is that we are not covered. If your SSPO or a deputy you prob could get away with it. In terms are corrections in MA whether DOC or county LEO. Yes we are. We know we're not cops, this is one of the oldest debates between cops and co's yes there are a few that make co's look bad and there are plenty of cops that make themselves look bad. When it comes to firearms we are LEOs, when it comes to hi cap mags CO's are LEOs. I wouldn't carry under leosa out of state because I'm NOT a cop but in this state correctional officers are LEO. I'm not looking to start an argument with someone that's a cop but many of my friends who are local cops and MSP agree CO's fall under LEO we may be lower on the food chain but were still on it

 

[Serapis]

Deputy Sheriffs who have qualified with a firearm are covered under LEOSA. They satisfy all requirements. Not to fuel any fires, but "technically" (by law) a sheriffs deputy has more authority than a town or city cop. Though it is very seldom acted on, it is on the books. The Sheriff is also the highest ranking LEO in their county. More so than any chief. Again, this is something that is seldom acted on, if ever.

But let me make this clear, you have to be a police academy trained deputy who has qualified in a firearm to meet the needs of LEOSA. The political appointments that happen in the north shore don't count.

CO's are not considered LEO in the eyes of state or federal laws. If you want to be an LEO than you need to go to the academy.

 

[appraiser]

so being a "50 Dollar Sheriff" doesn't count?

 

[drgrant]

CO's are not considered LEO in the eyes of state or federal laws. If you want to be an LEO than you need to go to the academy.

Federal COs are covered under LEOSA, per an edict from AG Gonzalez at the time, I believe.

-Mike

 

[OB1Kenobi]

so being a "50 Dollar Sheriff" doesn't count?

well played. i know one dude who is one, i think he even has a badge.

 

[Len-2A Training]

well played. i know one dude who is one, i think he even has a badge.

They were all issued IDs, ID cases, badges and a very nice certificate. All that and $3.00 might buy a cup of coffee. However I know one person who played it when stopped ouf of state and got out of a speeding ticket with it . . . and that is the whole purpose of giving them out, other than hooking them as a fund-raising source come election time.

 

[appraiser]

well played. i know one dude who is one, i think he even has a badge.

Several of my friends are "50 dollar sheriffs" and they have badges and ID cards.

Can we discuss the "reserve" motorcycle unit? the 50 Dollar Sheriffs that get to work details, carry a gun, have their personally owned motorcycles fitted with blue lights and all the cop gear, and magnetic department decals?

 

[OB1Kenobi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

 

[KBCraig]

Federal COs are covered under LEOSA, per an edict from AG Gonzalez at the time, I believe.

It was Ashcroft, but it wasn't by his edict. Federal COs are covered under LEOSA because they meet the definition in the law.

Ashcroft issued a memo clarifying that federal COs are covered because there was a lot of initial resistance of the "they're not cops" variety, especially among Bureau of Prisons senior administrators.

 

[Serapis]

so being a "50 Dollar Sheriff" doesn't count?

Haha.... no.