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CO's Considered LEO's?
- Thread starter MJL0618
- Start date
I was offered one of those by the Norfolk Sheriff many years ago. It was just as phony as what I stated above. And at that time I was already a fully sworn part-time LEO and police academy graduate. It came with hooks (expected political contributions and help at re-election) and did not enfranchise anyone with real LE status. I politely declined.
KBCraig
NES Member
Second follow-up:
You were thinking of Alberto Gonzales, crony of GWB. Not to be confused with Dan Morales, former AG of Texas and candidate for U.S. Senate during the same time frame, who served his post-disbarment sentence for bank fraud in a federal prison in Texas.
Captain's orderly, he was. Kept his head down and did his job and did his time. Kept the main corridor mighty shiny, too.
n1oty
NES Member
Len, I spent seven of my public safety years with the Norfolk County Sheriff's Department before moving on. It is obvious from your post that you are not intimate with the way that department is run. I have always known the Sheriff to have two types of Deputy Sheriff's. The first type is a real, academy trained Deputy that actually WORKED for the department. The second type was an "Honorary Deputy". Those were the political hacks. No academy training. They did not necessarily work for the department. Their "badge" and charter stated "Honorary Deputy". As an Honorary Deputy, they had no power at all.
No, I understand it correctly. I'm well aware that each county has REAL Deputies that do indeed have LE duties. And some (like I was offered) issue Honorary Deputy or Reserve Deputy credentials as political favors. I was just stating that Norfolk did this too and not every Norfolk County Deputy badge out there is a "genuine" LE credential.
Look at those badges a little closer. The ones that say Deputy Sheriff are real Deputies. Other badges have markings on them such as "honorary" or no writing at all. I think that is a practice they should end. There is alot of misinformation out there especially within the local law enforcement community.
NYPD does this as well. They have badges for family members. It happens all over the country.
I've seen them. IIRC at least one county badges said "Reserve Deputy" on it . . . which implies "real" but isn't.
I agree that I'd like to see them done away with across the board, but it's not going to happen.
I was probably 10-12 yrs old when a distant Cousin showed me his Honorary Deputy badge and ID case.
We were in PA on vacation in the Poconos one year, taking a scenic cruise of an extremely large lake and the woman sitting across from me was wearing a pendant that was a NJ Police Chief badge (her husband sitting next to her, I think he had a NJ police hat on).
I had an employee from Brooklyn NY and he showed me a miniature NYPD badge that a buddy of his gave him. I told him to stow it if he's stopped in MA as he'd likely face criminal charges of "impersonating an officer" for flashing it (and I"m not kidding).
At the funeral of a good friend and high school classmate, they had a "Mother of NYPD" ID case and badge propped open on her casket. Her Son was sworn in 1 month prior to 9/11!
I can say that we don't do that here in MA amongst municipal PDs.
IIRC there is actually a law in MA regarding the marking of badges, if you are not a full blown member of the "thin blue line" society your badge has to have AUXILIARY, RESERVE, or other designation on it to clearly show you are not a "made man" in the thin blue line crew.
I'd like to see a reference to any such law??
I won't hold your feet to the fire, but if you do find it, I am very interested in the reference. Thanks.
It's a good idea and it is old news. It's been "in the making for a few years" and has been implemented this year. However each chief has to "buy in" to do it and to date it is only for FT (think this is true but not verified to me yet) municipal police departments. Constables, ACOs, Harbormasters, Deputy Sheriffs, retirees, etc. with LE powers were NOT included in this program. I'm hoping to meet with the person who is honchoing this effort soon to find out more and see if it can be expanded. I'll bet MSP and EPOs aren't included in this program either.
My last department issued ID was done on an IBM Selectric typewriter (most will have to Google these terms to figure out what I'm talking about
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
) back before 1990. One of our FT POs came back from a tour in the sandbox and since his old ID had "expired" was issued one done on a typewriter (identical to my last one) and this was ~3 years ago.Its against the law to impersonate a LEO
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I can tell you this has been implemented and it does now include Harbormaster, sheriffs, and specials so long as they are sworn in and academy trained.
Really?
When I came across it a few years back, it seemed to me that it was done to keep people that were not full time officers from running around with badges that did not convey their limited position in the world of law enforcement.
The town where I grew up had a progression that you went from Auxiliary to Reserve officer to FT Officer.
Funny thing happened one day, a bunch of the Full time guys decided to get it in their contracts that the town would eliminate the AUX and Reserve positions. And their plan worked, they all got rich on the OT and details.
THen when it got to the point they were going to retire, they passed a article at Town Meeting that was adopted by the State Legislature that allowed retired officers to stay on the detail pay gravy train.
They are all collecting nice pensions and working details. Not a bad gig huh.
Now that the former Lynnfield FT officer who maxed out his detail pay for the year and filed for unemployment has won his appeal and gets to collect again (now that the outrage has died down) we'll see how thrilled all these towns that got a special act passed to allow retired cops to work details feel about not only having to pay pension and health insurance costs, but six months of unemployment benefits every year.
Retired-LEO
NES Member
A Correction Officer "IS" A Law Enforcement Officer "period"
I have worked as a Correction Officer & Deputy Sheriff for close to 25 years.
Correction Officers "DO" have Police Powers. Some fall under "State" & some under "County"
A Correction Officer, by law can make certain types of Arrests for "Civil Infractions" whereas most Law Enf. Officers can not.
The High Sheriff of the State is the only non Federal Officer that "can" arrest the Governor, should the Governor commit a crime.
Some counties through out the state have Correction Officers / Deputies writing tickets for motor vehicle violations. It depends on the agreement between the Sheriff & The Local Agencies.
In addition most Campus Police Officers receive their "Police Powers" From Local Sheriff's.
The number of State Correction Officers & County Correction Officers (14 Counties in Massachusetts) combined out number the number of Boston Police Officers & State Troopers combined.
Without Correction Officers the crime levels within the state would be far beyond what YOU could comprehend.
I have worked as a Correction Officer & Deputy Sheriff for close to 25 years.
Correction Officers "DO" have Police Powers. Some fall under "State" & some under "County"
A Correction Officer, by law can make certain types of Arrests for "Civil Infractions" whereas most Law Enf. Officers can not.
The High Sheriff of the State is the only non Federal Officer that "can" arrest the Governor, should the Governor commit a crime.
Some counties through out the state have Correction Officers / Deputies writing tickets for motor vehicle violations. It depends on the agreement between the Sheriff & The Local Agencies.
In addition most Campus Police Officers receive their "Police Powers" From Local Sheriff's.
The number of State Correction Officers & County Correction Officers (14 Counties in Massachusetts) combined out number the number of Boston Police Officers & State Troopers combined.
Without Correction Officers the crime levels within the state would be far beyond what YOU could comprehend.
One can't assume that PT POs "have limited authority" when not working. A lot depends on the policies of their chief and department.
When a good friend became Chief in a North Shore town (wealthy town with ~8 FT POs and ~8 PT POs), my friend researched the statutes and concluded that his Special/Reserve POs were under MGL POs 24x7. One day I stopped in to pay a visit and he wanted to show me the town. We went in my car and almost everything in town is 30mph limit. I was probably doing 35-38 and he warned me to slow down as he saw one of his Special POs (in his POV) and said he could stop and ticket me. I looked at him and said "are you serious?" and he said "yes, they do and have the authority regardless of whether or not they are working a shift".
In the town I served, some FT POs bitched about our existence until:
- Christmas, they all wanted it off and had us work (we got paid) the shifts.
- When they had policemen's balls (take that as you like ), they wanted us to work (we did get paid) so they could party. I used to attend the events instead when I was available.
- When a bad storm was predicted and Edison or Telco was stringing lines so they needed a police detail, or a gang had threatened to trash a private party, or a huge turnout was expected at an election (with rain predicted all day) suddenly no FT PO wanted the detail! [I know as I worked all of these events (paid)!]
- When 2 officers got married, they actually had the cajones to ask us to work for free and they would be "on the books" as working while at the wedding (and getting sauced)! I don't know if any of the 35 of us were stupid enough to do this, but I said NFW!
- A particular detective who hated our existence, used to bitch about us all the time, and he and I finally had it out one evening . . . when he retired he immediately signed up as a Special PO so he could do the details while collecting his pension! I'm sure that he doesn't see it the same way for HIM (and the other FT POs that retired) as he did for the rest of us!
When a good friend became Chief in a North Shore town (wealthy town with ~8 FT POs and ~8 PT POs), my friend researched the statutes and concluded that his Special/Reserve POs were under MGL POs 24x7. One day I stopped in to pay a visit and he wanted to show me the town. We went in my car and almost everything in town is 30mph limit. I was probably doing 35-38 and he warned me to slow down as he saw one of his Special POs (in his POV) and said he could stop and ticket me. I looked at him and said "are you serious?" and he said "yes, they do and have the authority regardless of whether or not they are working a shift".
In the town I served, some FT POs bitched about our existence until:
- Christmas, they all wanted it off and had us work (we got paid) the shifts.
- When they had policemen's balls (take that as you like
), they wanted us to work (we did get paid) so they could party. I used to attend the events instead when I was available.- When a bad storm was predicted and Edison or Telco was stringing lines so they needed a police detail, or a gang had threatened to trash a private party, or a huge turnout was expected at an election (with rain predicted all day) suddenly no FT PO wanted the detail! [I know as I worked all of these events (paid)!]
- When 2 officers got married, they actually had the cajones to ask us to work for free and they would be "on the books" as working while at the wedding (and getting sauced)! I don't know if any of the 35 of us were stupid enough to do this, but I said NFW!
- A particular detective who hated our existence, used to bitch about us all the time, and he and I finally had it out one evening . . . when he retired he immediately signed up as a Special PO so he could do the details while collecting his pension! I'm sure that he doesn't see it the same way for HIM (and the other FT POs that retired) as he did for the rest of us!
I understand what and were you are coming from. I cannot imagine what its like inside a jail. I have the upmost respect for the people that work in them.
And I was referring to the satisfaction of LEOSA when addressing wether or not state/county CO's were considered LEOS.
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Retired-LEO
NES Member
I just love "my badge is better than your badge" urinary olympics.
I am not knocking "ANY" department.
I am just stating the fact that Correction Officers "ARE" Law Enforcement Officers
northframingham said:
And many LEOs say otherwise. That's a typical law enforcement urinary olympics. I am not (nor ever have been) in law enforcement, so I don't have a dog in this fight - I just enjoy the show.
Sheriff9mm
NES Member
Yup, and we all had to sign the memo to say that we understood what it meant.
Here's the memo: http://handgunlaw.us/documents/FBOP-LEOSAMemo.pdf
Agency policy restricts it for us even more. I'd love to carry to and from the institution, but according to policy we can't take personally owned weapons onto the property. And if we could, we don't have individual lock boxes to secure said weapons (with the exception for the agency owned firearms we can't take home with us.)
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KBCraig
NES Member
They did finally figure out that it's just policy, and not law, that prohibits guns on the property. For years their signs and warnings spouted all kinds of dire warnings that it was a violation of federal law, a felony, to bring anything onto the grounds not approved by the warden, including firearms, knives, metal cutting tools, etc., etc.
But: it wasn't, and still isn't. It's just a violation of policy. A visitor could be removed for trespass, and employees can face discipline for violation of policy, but it doesn't break any federal law to have a gun on BOP property, except for inside buildings. (18 USC 930 applies to all "federal facilities".)
OfficerObie59
NES Member
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These threads just make me shake my head in exasperation.
I can just imagine. I've heard some stories about epic testosterone poisoning resulting in roadside "disagreements" between Staties, ICE and FBI.
Turf disputes are legion in LE. I remember being told by my late Chief to "stay off the Interstate and US-1, leave that to the MA SP"!
Before the merger, there was RMV and MDC Police and they earned no respect from MSP (which seemed to be made up of mostly Marines)! Every year the MDC Police played the MSP at a charity event (think it was football, not sure). Every year brawls broke out between the two teams but not due to the game, due to the hatred between them. After the merger into the MSP there was a lot of hatred. A good friend and Brother passed away ~1 year ago . . . he had worked his way up to Captain in the MDC Police and retired as a Captain in the MSP. Over his casket was a display of his badges, he was dressed in uniform . . . all MDC Police gear, nothing from MSP!
It gets a lot worse wrt other LE entities, Deputy Sheriffs, COs, Harbormasters, Constables, ACOs, various Fed agencies, etc. It is truly sad!
OfficerObie59
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FWIW, the only place I seem to run into interagency disputes about whose badge is bigger is on internet forums. Yeah, you see it occasionally on the road, but no where near the intensity as when guys are sitting behind their computer screens.
