cops seize firearms from brookline home

The fact that the ATF was called is irrelevant without further information. For all we know the ATF came by, looked at the stuff, shrugged their shoulders and left. It's VERY likely that there nothing here that would provoke a federal issue. I suspect they can tell the difference between a piece of pipe and a silencer.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
The fact that the ATF was called is irrelevant without further information. For all we know the ATF came by, looked at the stuff, shrugged their shoulders and left. It's VERY likely that there nothing here that would provoke a federal issue. I suspect they can tell the difference between a piece of pipe and a silencer.
Click to expand...

Well you'd like to think they could also tell the difference between and full auto kit and a shoelace, but you'd be wrong. I would never doubt their ability to ruin an innocent person's life by redefining a gun related item as illegal on a whim. They have done it before.
 
dcmdon said:
If I was a local PD trying to build a case, I'd want someone from the ATF FTB to look at everything and make an assessment.
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Would it be your job to build a case when no crime was committed?

I would expect the phone call to go like this:

BPD: Hey ATF, we need your help.
ATF: What can we do for you?
BPD: Well, we found a guy who had some guns in his house.
ATF: ...and?
BPD: Did you hear me?! He had GUNS. Like more than one.
ATF: What did he do with them?
BPD: Nothing. But he could have done something.
 
glide said:
Would it be your job to build a case when no crime was committed?

I would expect the phone call to go like this:

BPD: Hey ATF, we need your help.
ATF: What can we do for you?
BPD: Well, we found a guy who had some guns in his house.
ATF: ...and?
BPD: Did you hear me?! He had GUNS. Like more than one.
ATF: What did he do with them?
BPD: Nothing. But he could have done something.
Click to expand...

Glide,
regardless of the argument, I'd like to think we all approach things with intellectual honesty. So while I don't think that the police had the right to go into this house. considering where they are in the whole process, and considering the mindset of MA LEOs I'd like to think you will at least admit that the ATF would talk to them.

With that said, the conversation would go like this:

BPD: Hi we need your help
ATF: sure
BPD: we arrested this guy and we need some help determining if this guys guns were legal in MA. We also found silencers.
ATF: Oohhh Silencers (they get all excited about NFA violations)
BpD: yeah and assault weapons
ATF: well, we dont care about assault weapons, but we can help determine date of manufacture. Now tell me about those silencers. Do they have serial numbers? Does the owner have stamps with them?
BPD: Well, they're here. so why don't you come by.

By the way, if the guy has completed form 4s then the ATF is done. All they care about is that the silencer is on the registry and that a tax has been paid. So if the guy bought it while a resident of another state, then illegally moved it to MA without doing an ATF-5320, the ATF has little interest.

Don
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
The fact that the ATF was called is irrelevant without further information. For all we know the ATF came by, looked at the stuff, shrugged their shoulders and left. It's VERY likely that there nothing here that would provoke a federal issue. I suspect they can tell the difference between a piece of pipe and a silencer.
Click to expand...

In one of the TV news broadcasts, they state that "federal agents have been called in to sort through the weapons and figure out where he got them".

In other words, they're fishing for other charges.
 
dcmdon said:
Glide,
regardless of the argument, I'd like to think we all approach things with intellectual honesty. So while I don't think that the police had the right to go into this house. considering where they are in the whole process, and considering the mindset of MA LEOs I'd like to think you will at least admit that the ATF would talk to them.

With that said, the conversation would go like this:

BPD: Hi we need your help
ATF: sure
BPD: we arrested this guy and we need some help determining if this guys guns were legal in MA. We also found silencers.
ATF: Oohhh Silencers (they get all excited about NFA violations)
BpD: yeah and assault weapons
ATF: well, we dont care about assault weapons, but we can help determine date of manufacture. Now tell me about those silencers. Do they have serial numbers? Does the owner have stamps with them?
BPD: Well, they're here. so why don't you come by.

By the way, if the guy has completed form 4s then the ATF is done. All they care about is that the silencer is on the registry and that a tax has been paid. So if the guy bought it while a resident of another state, then illegally moved it to MA without doing an ATF-5320, the ATF has little interest.

Don
Click to expand...

If the silencer really is a silencer, then I agree with that. But I would also think that determination could be made by the locals. The bottom line is they are fishing for charges and there should be no defending of ANY of the actions of the local PD.
 
PaulD said:
In one of the TV news broadcasts, they state that "federal agents have been called in to sort through the weapons and figure out where he got them".

In other words, they're fishing for other charges.
Click to expand...

Or they're just fishing for charges. There may not be an "other" since based on what Rob Boudrie said, letting your FID expire is only a civil offense, like a parking ticket.

Don
 
Even my wife who is pro-gun fell for the media's story. I had to explain to her tonight about the so called machine guns, bullet proof vest defeating bullets,and silencers that are likely fake.
 
I would guess, and of course it is a guess, that the supressors are just for show to make the barrels legal length. If he didn't have supressors legally then some very serious charges would have been filed already and the cops would have been bragging about it on the news.

The way the cops have embellished and dramatized this whole thing further leads me to think the supressors are fake.
 
Out of curiosity, why do you say the silencers are LIKELY fake?
Click to expand...
Three of them have holes in them - atypical for silencer construction.

Look at the back row:
BeckerBrookline2.jpg
 
Actually, IMO, I'd say that most Nons are likely under the impression that the cops keep an eye on all the gun nuts.....so this guy, being "off the radar" woudl be a very frightening scenario to them.

As for mental health issues....well DUH! The guy had guns....that's weird (see the "why do you have a gun?" thread)
 
dcmdon said:
Or they're just fishing for charges. There may not be an "other" since based on what Rob Boudrie said, letting your FID expire is only a civil offense, like a parking ticket.

Don
Click to expand...

There is conflict within the wording of the law as to the applicability of an FID covering possession of handguns in the home (it definitely does not cover carry) - something Ron Glidden covers in his course. The only danger on the expired FID=civil offense would be if the state successfully argued that it did not cover the handguns.
 
In regards to the "Mental Health Issues" of the person involved; I've got news for you, All of us have 'Mental Health Issues' according to some of the documentation out of DHS, FBI, and TSA. That's the game, if they can get a very broad description in the regs, then they can get anyone to fit the profile. Subsequently, you too can star on a evening news broadcast and become a 'prohibited person'.
 
Knuckle Dragger said:
Here's the most disturbing part: The idea that because someone owns guns they need to be on the police's radar. This is so typical of the state's perspective that gun owners represent a potential serious public safety risk.
Click to expand...

Agree, it is so indicative of the usual propaganda of a police state and an ignorant ridiculously sheepish and spineless public.

Its also the nanny state mentallity that has been brainwashed into most people in MA.

The only thing that should be on police radar is the speeding car on the roadways.
 
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Boston_Shooter said:
Out of curiosity, why do you say the silencers are LIKELY fake?
Click to expand...

fivepak said:
The way the cops have embellished and dramatized this whole thing further leads me to think the supressors are fake.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. The media/brookline police embellishes stories like this in order to create sensationalism.

And this sensationalism hurts us greatly.
 
PaulD said:
No. It says his lawyers are arguing he has "mental health issues" and are asking for "mental health treatment". That's not quite the samething as him truly having mental health problems. It could be a defense ploy.
Click to expand...

Right, and I can tell you right now that this guy has a REALLY bad lawyer if he doesn't REALLY have MH issues. A) These charges are a civil fine because of the former FID card and he is looking to duck civil fines by playing the crazy card??? B)He just set his client up for a lifetime dq by pulling the crazy card. C) Pulling the crazy card almost never works.

But his lawyer has a JD and passed a memory test... I can't stress this enough but gun owners need to use gun friendly attorneys who know what they are doing in this area.
 
They are holding him until next Wednesday for a "dangerousness hearing". Though his has no history, and NOW he has no weapons either.

Does anyone know of Dedham lawyer Joanna Sandman, who appeard with him in court?

--jcr

p.s. Does this mean he won't have to appear for Jury Duty?
 
terraformer said:
Right, and I can tell you right now that this guy has a REALLY bad lawyer if he doesn't REALLY have MH issues. A) These charges are a civil fine because of the former FID card and he is looking to duck civil fines by playing the crazy card??? B)He just set his client up for a lifetime dq by pulling the crazy card. C) Pulling the crazy card almost never works.

But his lawyer has a JD and passed a memory test... I can't stress this enough but gun owners need to use gun friendly attorneys who know what they are doing in this area.
Click to expand...

No doubt.

There's a huge glut of lawyers out there now and that says to me that large quantities of them are incompetent. Further, even if this guy's lawyer is generally competent, he's probably not well versed in MA gun law since even our own government can't figure it out.

So in short, I totally agree with you.
 
My father is considered one of the better lawyers in the state and on his first gun case he pretty much had to research from the ground up exactly what was going on, to include being in constant communication with SAF and I believe some of the guys from Comm2A as well. A good lawyer would work with professionals in the field to do the best for their client. Unfortunately for gun rights and the victims of stupid laws, that often doesn't seem to be the case.

Mike
 
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crazymjb said:
My father is considered one of the better lawyers in the state and on his first gun case he pretty much had to research from the ground up exactly what was going on, to include being in constant communication with SAF and I believe some of the guys from Comm2A as well. A good lawyer would work with professionals in the field to do the best for their client. Unfortunately for gun rights and the victims of stupid laws, that often doesn't seem to be the case.

Mike
Click to expand...

Hah. I had no idea you were Peter's son. I knew he had a Marine for a son living in Amherst (how he found us & SAF was via your recommendation he told me) but I didn't put two and two together. Your dad is a great lawyer and he did an excellent job with the MTD briefs he wrote. Although one of the two MTDs failed, that one was even successful is a credit to his skill, he has also set his client up for a very good appeal if the client gets convicted.

PS: All, you will note we do a lot of interfacing with lawyers on criminal cases that don't get publicized. It's unfortunate but the criminal bar needs the anonymity. We keep lawyers with active cases informed of new case law on their topic, especially things occurring outside of MA, and connect folks like Mike's dad up with folks like Joe Hickson, Lisa Steele and others. Lisa Steele worked with one attorney and they were able to get a guy off on storage charges. This takes money and resources so please know that the civil work you see is only about 1/2 of what we do.
 

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