Concerns living on NH border

[Tiktock]

Hello,
I just moved last year to Plaistow, NH and am getting back into shooting in general. I own some smallbore target rifles from back in my competition shooting days, but since moving to NH, im looking to purchase a handgun. My GF is still very resistant, but that can be worked on with time. My question is this:

I live less than 1 mile over the NH border. I have to go through MA to get pretty much anywhere I go, even to locations in NH, due to how the highways are set up. It seems acquring a NH permit to use and transport the handgun is pretty easy, but getting a MA nonresident permit to do the same is a pain and has to be done each year for 100$ per year.

What concerns should I have about this? I doubt i'd even be able to easilly get to most NH gun clubs without crossing the MA border based on my house location, but dont want to be in a world of trouble if I get pulled over on the way.

Am I up a creek? Do I basically need to map out where that border is and simply never, ever cross it with a pistol? Forgive me if this belongs on a different forum.

 

[M1911]

If I were you, I'd pony up the bucks for the MA non-resident permit. Yes, it's expensive. Yes, it's a pain. But I suspect that getting arrested (even if charges are never filed) would ruin your whole day.

 

[dwarven1]

Am I up a creek? Do I basically need to map out where that border is and simply never, ever cross it with a pistol? Forgive me if this belongs on a different forum.

You're not really up a creek, because the MA State PD issues the non-res permits, and they issue All Lawful Purposes ones. And they treat it as "shall-issue".

So your choices are either pony up the $100 a year, or never, ever cross the MA border with ANY gun in your car.

I'd pony up the $$$ in your shoes.

and hey, once you do that, you can come down here to shoot at matches and NES shoots. Well, you can shoot at NES shoots if you become a member - member shoots, meet&greets & lunch/dinner meetings are posted in the members only forum.

Ross

 

[ScottS]

IMHO, MA non-res LTC is expensive and unnecessary if you just take a couple of simple steps. First, if you even suspect your "journey" to the range will take you into Occupied MA, always make sure your weapons are unloaded, cased, and secured in the trunk of your vehicle. Since you are legal to own/possess the weapons at the beginning (NH) and the end (NH) of your trip, you're covered legally by the 1986 FOPA. Important caveats apply:
1. I wouldn't want to try this as a free pass to drive to Boston for a little shopping "on the way to the range." I would go directly to and directly from the range. This advice is for those trips where the road "wanders" back and forth across the border.
2. In a true market economy, everything is worth exactly what you pay for it. Advice solicited and received from anonymous dumb-f***s on the Internet (note: this includes my post.) should not be construed to be actual legal advice. Learn as much as you can, check out what you hear, and make your decision accordingly.

Best of luck with the handgun purchase, and a belated welcome to NH.

ETA: I regularly shoot matches in Occupied MA, without a non-resident LTC, and in full compliance with state and federal regulations.

 

[Tiktock]

I figured as much, thanks guys! I wanted to make sure there wasnt some clause in the law that would allow me to transport in a locked case to a range for target shooting. I saw something about traveling to a competition. I am not as familiar with the handgun laws since with a rifle, just having a FID served my purpose years back.

Im joining the Plaistow gun club which is about 2 mins from my house and NH roads the whole way, so that will be nice to get back into the swing of things. I wish I hadnt sold the majority of my competition gear when I went to college. At least I still have my gun, a real nice anschutz 1913.

Thanks for the advice! Sounds like the 100$ a year is well worth the piece of mind in case some day i wander over the border to get gas and forget...

 

[Tiktock]

IMHO, MA non-res LTC is expensive and unnecessary if you just take a couple of simple steps. First, if you even suspect your "journey" to the range will take you into Occupied MA, always make sure your weapons are unloaded, cased, and secured in the trunk of your vehicle. Since you are legal to own/possess the weapons at the beginning (NH) and the end (NH) of your trip, you're covered legally by the 1986 FOPA. Important caveats apply:
1. I wouldn't want to try this as a free pass to drive to Boston for a little shopping "on the way to the range."
2. In a true market economy, everything is worth exactly what you pay for it. Advice solicited and received from anonymous dumb-f***s on the Internet should not be construed to be actual legal advice. Learn as much as you can, check out what you hear, and make your decision accordingly.

Best of luck with the handgun purchase, and a belated welcome to NH.

I appreciate this! I would never sub internet advice for real law advice. This is all preliminary and any choices will be backed up with real research. I was interested to see how others have dealt with this situation or what options I would have when i went through with the handgun purchase.

 

[adweisbe]

Technically you are protected by federal law. If you start in NH and your destination is in NH then you are covered. The firearm must be unloaded and locked in the trunk.

However, MA police do not believe the law applies to them so expect to be hassled if you are stopped and you admit to having anything. The best thing to do is get the non-resident permit so you can attend all the awesome matches in MA. The next best thing to do is keep your mouth shut and do nothing that would give them cause to find what is in your trunk. Don't give any attitude, just your license and registration and that's all you need to do.

 

[M1911]

However, MA police do not believe the law applies to them so expect to be hassled if you are stopped and you admit to having anything.

+1

Yes, you should be covered by FOPA if you are starting in NH, ending in NH, and have the guns unloaded, locked in the trunk, etc. That said, it would not surprise me if someone has been wrongfully arrested in MA -- it is my impression that many police officers just aren't that familiar with MA law.

 

[drgrant]

Get your Nonres. It sucks but it is necessary if you come into
MA on a regular basis. It also has the fringe benefit of allowing
you to carry loaded+concealed here as well, if you want. (of course,
BE AWARE of the differences in law between NH and MA, etc. )

The problem with FOPA is it is a crutch that doesn't work very
well- since most commie state PD's don't recognize it straight out, it basically
is a last stand measure- eg, with a lawyer involved you'll get acquitted, but
IMO if one is caught in an exigent circumstance (eg, a horrendous car
accident on the MA side would be an example) I doubt FOPA will cover
this very well at all, unless the PD/officers are aware of it, or
believe you (either is doubtful/rare in this state).

-Mike

 

[ScottS]

The best thing to do is get the non-resident permit so you can attend all the awesome matches in MA.

This is the second time someone has said this, so it bears repeating: the "awesome matches in MA" are attended all the time by out-of-state people who don't have NR LTC's. No big deal if you follow the rules.

Tik, there is a subtle, yet important caveat to shooting matches from out-of-state. MA makes no allowances for "after the ban" magazines, even for non-residents shooting matches. If, for example, you shoot a Springfield XD (as I do), and have all standard capacity mags from after Sep 1994 (as I do), you can't legally shoot it in MA (as I don't), unless you buy a bunch of 10-rounders "just for MA matches" (which I won't). Same goes for "after the ban" AR mags. Something that's not talked about too much, and something to think about.

ETA: And a NR LTC does nothing to change this.

 

[adweisbe]

This is the second time someone has said this, so it bears repeating: the "awesome matches in MA" are attended all the time by out-of-state people who don't have NR LTC's. No big deal if you follow the rules.

Good, we have plenty of volunteers for a test case.

 

[Tiktock]

Gotcha! If i get a handgun, i will be doing much more extensive research to make sure ill be compliant whenever I need it. I am very interested in getting back into the competition scene. I used to be VERY into it in smallbore(shooting between heartbeats type stuff).

Im going to do some more research and have the pay-per-view "im buying a pistol" converstaion with the GF....

 

[ScottS]

Good, we have plenty of volunteers for a test case.

Now that's just silly. For one example, the S&W Winter IDPA Championships had a couple of hundred entrants, many from out-of-state, including (I presonally saw) TX, VA, FL, and NC, not to mention the Italian team. Think they had NR LTC's? I'm going to venture most of the participants, not from the NE area, didn't have NR LTC's. The outstanding MA IDPA State Championships, run every year by Dave Bold and his New Bedford R&G buddies, regularly draws 80+ shooters, many from out-of-state.

And that's just 2 IDPA matches, and says nothing of the thriving IPSC clubs down there.

Test case? Don't be melodramatic.

 

[Len-2A Training]

ScottS, lots of good info there. Thanks!

NOTE WELL: Scott's admonition about hi-cap mags.

I'd recommend the MA NR LTC as well because you can CCW (with a NH CCW) and if you are only a few miles from the border and "wander" over the border with a pistol on your hip, you'd be SOL w/o the MA NR LTC! [FOPA doesn't help.] Unholstering, unloading and locking up enroute just before you cross border points is a royal PITA and one slip and you're screwed. [Just make sure you aren't carrying new hi-caps if there is any chance you'll slip over the state line.]

Using FOPA in general should be fine, but perhaps not the OP's case. I'd look at the NR LTC as "insurance money".

 

[RKG]

ScottS, lots of good info there. Thanks!

NOTE WELL: Scott's admonition about hi-cap mags.

I'd recommend the MA NR LTC as well because you can CCW (with a NH CCW) and if you are only a few miles from the border and "wander" over the border with a pistol on your hip, you'd be SOL w/o the MA NR LTC! [FOPA doesn't help.] Unholstering, unloading and locking up enroute just before you cross border points is a royal PITA and one slip and you're screwed. [Just make sure you aren't carrying new hi-caps if there is any chance you'll slip over the state line.]

Using FOPA in general should be fine, but perhaps not the OP's case. I'd look at the NR LTC as "insurance money".

This is sound advice.

There is a precept in my profession to the effect that the best answer to a question in the world isn't as good is keeping the question from coming up in the first place. While the federal law may, after some anxious moments (or hours or days or weeks) vindicate you, having the LTC means that you're on your way right now. That is worth $100.

 

[Lynne]

Im going to do some more research and have the pay-per-view "im buying a pistol" converstaion with the GF....

Why not take her shooting and let her try a .22? You're just over the border from me ( ) so you could meet me and I'll take you both over to Haverhill Hound and teach her to shoot. Throw me some $$'s for the ammo and targets and we'll call it even. BTW - since your new hun - I'm a certified instructor.

 

[Tiktock]

Thanks Lynne! I might just take you up on the offer as I field the topic. She in the past has stated "I dont want a gun in the house" but I never pushed it because I was no longer into the sport and didnt think twice. After moving to NH, seeing the law differences, and a recent scare at home, I have rekindled my old competition shooting fires and gun love secretly. I am going to start with her shooting a .22 longrifle and move on from there.

I figure the entire house is filled with knives because its my second profession as a custom knifemaker, entire basement filled with real-steel looking airsoft guns since I do airsoft Milsim, so whats another few weapons thrown into the mix? (From her point of view)

Either way, ill get her plinkin with the .22, then may contact you anyways for the pistol stuff. Itll be funny seeing my GF shooting her first real bullet out of an Anschutz 1913...

Not to thread drift, but its ironic knowing that I may need to fight her to get something in the house whose main function will be her protection. I do understand the difference between our backgrounds, though. When she was in HS giggling at boys, I had a room full of ammo and shooting gear. Shes never shot a gun, ive been shooting most of my life, shes not too worried about crime, I am more of a "better safe than sorry" type...you know the drill.

 

[Lynne]

Tell her that women usually shoot better than men. That might help. You can also tell her that a woman told you that, and that it's a lot of fun. Good luck in the pay-per-view!

 

[KMaurer]

Tell her that women usually shoot better than men. That might help. You can also tell her that a woman told you that, and that it's a lot of fun. Good luck in the pay-per-view!

Don't fool yourself thinking that Lynne is biased in here evaluation. I'm also an instructor and see the same thing all the time. It's not genetics; it's simply that they usually have a lot fewer bad habits to break.

Ken

 

[Tiktock]

Yep a girl on my shooting team years back FAR exceeded all the guys abilities. She ended up being on the 96 olympic team. I was not at that caliber at all, never being able to get my offhand scores into the 90's. I did well enough, though!

Women have hips and lower centers of gravity. International shooting regs usually limit their gear pretty heavily as compared to men. WHen i was competing, men could use under-the-arm buttplate hooks whereas women could not. From tip to toe, their gear was restriced in ways mens was not. Mens scores were always higher, but when that gear came off and it was down to just shooting at practice, the high end women shooters beat the men hands down.

Just look at a competition offhand stance. No muscles involved...wouldnt you want nice wide hips to rest that elbow on?

Not sure if this goes to pistol as well vs 3pos rifle. Having lived in MA, I never got to play with pistols except at the range using other people's guns.

Now im officially .9 miles over the NH border, and you can bet your top dollar im cashing in on it!

 

[dwarven1]

Women have hips and lower centers of gravity.

Yeah... Vive le differance!

Women also shoot better, I think, because they don't suffer from testosterone poisoning and will actually LISTEN to the instructor. Guys are too caught up in the "I'm a great warrior" schtick to listen well.

 

[Lynne]

Women have hips and lower centers of gravity.

Um, Tik dear, you might not want to use those words in trying to convince her.

 

[Tiktock]

Um, Tik dear, you might not want to use those words in trying to convince her.

Haha! Yeah I may need to leave out those details....

 

[Scrivener]

Originally Posted by Tiktock:
Women have hips and lower centers of gravity.

In general, YES. There are certain notable exceptions, however.......