CMP talks pricing regarding 1911s

[mac1911]

This...back in the golden age of milsurps prior to 1968 thousands of guns were sold as "Arsenal refinished" many guns after WW2 were rebuilt as a matter of policy. Captured weapons were refurbished by some victorious powers and placed in strategic reserve. Others were sold as surplus and reworked by the companies that sold them.

I remember getting a reworked HR M16A1 from Viet Nam era back in 1982. Nothing new here, it's SOP. CMP could make their own M1's for years if they wanted too, given the amount of parts on hand.

I know a lot of you guys wanna hold history in your hands and fantasize that your M1 was at Normandy or Iwo Jima, but more than likely it was issued to a cook at Ft Dix, NJ. In the end it was just a tool that spent most of its life locked up in some arms room.

If I wanted an M1 I'd really prefer one made new from parts, just like I'd like one of the new Colt 1903 Pocket Autos. YMMV. I love old guns and the history of firearms, but I'd rather have one I could shoot without feeling guilty about it. Like I said, YMMV.

CMP SPECiAL, would suite you well.? CMP Special (.30-06) M1 Garand. This is a completely refurbished rifle consisting of an original M1 Garand Springfield or HRA receiver, new production Criterion barrel, new production American Walnut stock and handguards, and new web sling. Receiver and most other parts are refinished USGI, but some parts may be new manufacture.

I'm sure if the pistol program works out they will have cmp special 1911s also.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

This...back in the golden age of milsurps prior to 1968 thousands of guns were sold as "Arsenal refinished" many guns after WW2 were rebuilt as a matter of policy. Captured weapons were refurbished by some victorious powers and placed in strategic reserve. Others were sold as surplus and reworked by the companies that sold them.

I remember getting a reworked HR M16A1 from Viet Nam era back in 1982. Nothing new here, it's SOP. CMP could make their own M1's for years if they wanted too, given the amount of parts on hand.

I know a lot of you guys wanna hold history in your hands and fantasize that your M1 was at Normandy or Iwo Jima, but more than likely it was issued to a cook at Ft Dix, NJ. In the end it was just a tool that spent most of its life locked up in some arms room.

If I wanted an M1 I'd really prefer one made new from parts, just like I'd like one of the new Colt 1903 Pocket Autos. YMMV. I love old guns and the history of firearms, but I'd rather have one I could shoot without feeling guilty about it. Like I said, YMMV.

I'm fairly well experienced in he Mil-Surp world and I'm well aware of typical refurbishment process.... I'm also well aware that many if not most of the of the mil surps in most people hands were never anywhere near a front line, as many that were on the front lines were nothing more than garbage after the dust settled.

My issue the CMP guns being put together is more that they have exhausted anything worthwhile and are now slapping parts that should be probably sent to scrap instead of being in a rifle. Unlike the Garman obsession with serializing every damn part, there is no way to identify if a Garand is "origianl" only if it is correct....once again, I'm more than well aware. I just don't want to be paying $800-$1200 through the CMP for something nothing more than parts that should have been tossed (if indeed that is the case)

 

[dhuze]

.......................
If they are simply going to remove from crate grade them and sell them that's fine I might pay. But if they are going to assemble them like they been doing with the M1s I rather not................

There are plenty of people who buy from the CMP and do the same thing. Then they sell them as original. The same will be done with the 1911's

 

[Nickle]

They have been "assembling" M1's?! I done with the mil surp collecting thing, I have my 1917 project to honor one of my grandfathers and I have my other grandfathers bring back Arisaka.... The only thing I could ever thing of replacing is my M1 Garand.

If that's the case, I can't see wasting money on a CMP "build"

Any WW2 era M1 that hasn't been rebuilt at least once has usually got some problems. The crappy working ones didn't get used, therefore not much wear. The ones used in Korea were WW2 vintage rifles, the Korean War vintage didn't get over there in time.

And, Winchester M1's are said to have been all shipped overseas. Mine has been rebuilt at least once, has a VAR barrel (Dutch) and is a CMP rifle. It's a little on the ugly side, and a "mixmaster" too, but still a decent rifle.

Correct grade rifles are rebuilt to get the parts to match (brand), but they use USGI parts.

Not to be confused with CMP Specials, which CMP builds, using new, non-military parts. Pretty, for sure, but not "correct".

Before you bash their pricing too far, check what "Government Property" stamped 1911's go for, and you'll soon figure out their prices aren't so high. "Apples to apples", as they say.

Like many of you, that means little to me, so I'll stick with the newer built stuff, except my 1917 Colt (marked US Army). I didn't pay anything near $1000 for it though.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

CMP seems to have shifted over the years from "bargain prices to support marksmanship" to "full market value or pretty close". Move along, no deals to see here.

 

[Mike-Mike]

They should be about $500, I'd pay up to $650 for one.

 

[dhuze]

They should be about $500, I'd pay up to $650 for one.

I figured they would start around $800. I'd say that's fair pricing.

 

[Mike-Mike]

I figured they would start around $800. I'd say that's fair pricing.

You can get a really nice Springfield armory brand new for $850

 

[dhuze]

You can get a really nice Springfield armory brand new for $850

Yes, but it's not a government issued 1911. There is a premium for them.

 

[jpm]

CMP seems to have shifted over the years from "bargain prices to support marksmanship" to "full market value or pretty close". Move along, no deals to see here.

bargain prices was never part of their charter, they're supposed to support and promote marksmanship. Their prices are still lower than gunbroker/LGS/retail.

 

[Nickle]

Yes, but it's not a government issued 1911. There is a premium for them.

My point exactly. The government issued ones have real collectors value. The commercial ones don't.

I think you'll find a 1911 marked as government property will bring about $2000 or more, depending on condition. Been like that for quite a while now.

 

[enbloc]

.

 

[KBCraig]

bargain prices was never part of their charter, they're supposed to support and promote marksmanship. Their prices are still lower than gunbroker/LGS/retail.

Exactly.

Their charter boils down to, "Promoting civilian marksmanship" (DUH: that's their name!). There are many ways to do that, but flooding the collector market with cheap milsurps does absolutely nothing to serve that goal.

The best way to serve the goal is through youth sports and other target shooting competitions, which is where CMP's "profits" go. They do provide match grade .22 to youth shooting clubs, at prices that are either at-cost, or subsidized. They host the major military-style shooting competitions held in the U.S.

As for "put-togethers", every USGI milsurp is a mixmaster if it came through regular supply channels. It's the all-matching examples that should be treated as suspect. Other nations hand-fitted their rifles, but the U.S. applied mass-manufacturing standards, so that all parts are interchangeable.

I've never collected USGI. I'm a Lee-Enfield guy, although I picked up some M-Ns and others when they were cheap, 20 years ago.

 

[Maninblue1861]

Exactly.

Their charter boils down to, "Promoting civilian marksmanship" (DUH: that's their name!). There are many ways to do that, but flooding the collector market with cheap milsurps does absolutely nothing to serve that goal.

The best way to serve the goal is through youth sports and other target shooting competitions, which is where CMP's "profits" go. They do provide match grade .22 to youth shooting clubs, at prices that are either at-cost, or subsidized. They host the major military-style shooting competitions held in the U.S.

As for "put-togethers", every USGI milsurp is a mixmaster if it came through regular supply channels. It's the all-matching examples that should be treated as suspect. Other nations hand-fitted their rifles, but the U.S. applied mass-manufacturing standards, so that all parts are interchangeable.

I've never collected USGI. I'm a Lee-Enfield guy, although I picked up some M-Ns and others when they were cheap, 20 years ago.

Originals are out there. But not as common as they were in late 90s early 2k thanks to everyone going full retard over them thanks to saving private Ryan, band of brothers ect. I started collecting in 97 when was fun, relaxing and relatively cheap. Why I was able to amass over 60 M1 garands, 80% being original unmessed with from all makers, eras, variations ect (1903s 1917s, snipers, shotguns ect as well bringing total to over 150).

Sold most of collection almost 10 years ago not realizing how full retard prices and availability became. I've come to terms ill have a collection of that caliber again due to cost, and the absolute onslaught of fakes or restored rifles out there to fleece the unsuspecting.

I laugh at the people who go bat shit crazy over at cmp. Between the tools that buy everything they can, to resell at crazy markup prices, to people who bid and spend far more than item is worth at auction including the cmp premium. Why I stopped looking there.

 

[PATRON]

No C&R, no more money from me CMP.

 

[smokey-seven]

That said, the USGI's are overpriced.

I agree. I've been buying US Property issued 45's since the 1960's. They were overpriced at 125$, 175$, 225$, 300$, 375$ all they way to today's top line collector pieces selling for thousands. Hell I can recall most good stuff rifles and handguns selling for less than a hundred bucks. So define overpriced.

 

[CTpatriot]

If the gun was documented to have been in combat I could see it having some more value. But to pay a 1000 for a beat up shooter marked .gov property, if you have money to burn.

 

[mothybee]

Wait till Bernie's in, it will be free.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I agree. I've been buying US Property issued 45's since the 1960's. They were overpriced at 125$, 175$, 225$, 300$, 375$ all they way to today's top line collector pieces selling for thousands. Hell I can recall most good stuff rifles and handguns selling for less than a hundred bucks. So define overpriced.

I agree and understand. Back in the 1970s I never paid more than $160 for any used gun (Rem 1100 Skeet, HS Victor, Colt Det Spl, etc.), other than a customized bullseye 1911A1 (that was $200). Times and prices sure have changed. The CMP 1911s would be worth more than $1K, provided that they are in good condition but not IMNSHO if they are beaters.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I never paid more than $160 for any used gun (Rem 1100 Skeet, HS Victor, Colt Det Spl, etc.)

Brings back memories.

My finds are a Det Special for $225; Ruger Security 6 for $95 and a Glock 27 for $80. (though the final one was from a friend who didn't like the gun and didn't need the money). The first two were from regular gun shops.

rob

 

[Len-2A Training]

Brings back memories.

My finds are a Det Special for $225; Ruger Security 6 for $95 and a Glock 27 for $80. (though the final one was from a friend who didn't like the gun and didn't need the money). The first two were from regular gun shops.

rob

My Det Spl was bought from one of our cops for $85 . . . every time he saw me wearing it he asked to buy it back. I still have it. I think I paid about the same for my S&W 39-2 from a gun shop.

 

[dhuze]

I agree. I've been buying US Property issued 45's since the 1960's. They were overpriced at 125$, 175$, 225$, 300$, 375$ all they way to today's top line collector pieces selling for thousands. Hell I can recall most good stuff rifles and handguns selling for less than a hundred bucks. So define overpriced.

I used to pay .59 cents for gas too. and .10 cents for a can of soda.

 

[majspud]

Cheapest I ever paid was .88 (super, mind you) and .25 for soda. I remember my mother filling up at .33 cents.

Here is the Bureau of Labor Inflation Calculator

http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

T

 

[deces]

Shocking, I was dumbfounded at what the M-14 part kits were going for, no barrel or even a bolt. PASS!

 

[OldNorth]

Any of you guys have any non molested service grade m1911a1's kicking around you want to sell for less than 1k?

I know a lot of people aren't thrilled with the pricing but I've been looking to grab an honest a1 for years and years and have yet to see one for sale, at any price, either in the classifieds here or in the local shops. I don't have a C&R, I'm sure that would make the hunting a lot easier.

I'll probably end up forking out the dough if they ever do offer them up.

 

[mac1911]

I only know of one....came home in a duffle bag from Korea. The gent has carried and shot it.
He has documents that he says shows it was issued to him.
The story is he was,injured and during the ordeal to get him out his buddy stuck his 1911 into his bag just in case. It stayed in the bag until state side.
He promised me he would sell it to me.....when he is ready.....I'm still waiting.

 

[Maninblue1861]

Sold my last all original correct Ithaca 1911a1 last year. Was snatched up in under 10 mins.