Civilian defense against armored vehicles

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Andy in NH said:
For anyone advocating shooting at the armored vehicle, just remember you have satisfied their ROE for deadly force and they will start shooting back.



ALL the ROEs that I have been subject to were interpreted that anyone holding a Molotov Cocktail or a an Anti-Tank Weapon (RPG) was to be engaged immediately.
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Yeah... if I have a Molotov in my hand, either I'm drunk and in the middle of a dare that probably won't end well or the SHTF and I'm about to drop some hurt where it will be most effective. In the first case, call an ambulance... in the second, I'm well aware that my target is going to shoot back. Luckily I'm a better shot and probably have better gear and training than my target...
 
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If you have black power for shooting then you have explosives around it goes boom from the ground just fine. with a little tubing a strike anywhere match and some string you can make an effective trigger. Not advocating violence just saying it works.
 
mark056 said:
And how long did you serve and how well were you trained? Sounds like you are taking the high ground here with your "some of us"...like you really maybe you think you are a little more virtuous and high minded than me, for instance?

If you have been there and done that you have my respect and if not I think mother is calling you to get off your computer and come upstairs from the basement for dinner.

There are people who talk about what they do and people who actually do. I don't know which group you belong to.
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A bit too intense there Mark. This was all a what if scenario. None of us are sure what we will do if that day ever comes. Most guys in the shit don't know what they will do till the shooting starts. Give it a rest with the billy bad ass stuff.
 
When you look at things like Waco and Boston, it shouldn't seem at all strange or unlikely that MRAPs or tanks get used in .gov full retard ways.

Having ideas only seems prudent at this point.
 
mav said:
I think our resident Roland Deschain has stated in another thread something about "Force on Force" training as part of his LEO curriculum. I took that to mean the mission of LEO tactical teams has changed to include tactics and training against groups and not just one or two suspects.

Having said that, I agree that the vast majority of LEO, Fed Gov or local/state have very little exposure to MOUT/urban warfare and light infantry tactics. Watertown was as good example as any of a chaotic and fluid tactical environment and it tied up hundreds of LEO who also happened to shoot up a neighborhood before it's inevitable conclusion.

And of course this is all theoretical... I mean, no law-abiding, patriotic citizen of this great country would ever consider taking up arms against the government in defense of liberty and the constitution. 'Merica!
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No. My comment in particular referred to problems commonly found in routine policing for the most part. The idea of giving an officer a realistic 'mental Rolodex' of experience that he or she can draw from under stress. Not only for escalation of violence, but also deescalation. I've never ONCE seen a police department training to fight a group or coordinated attack in Mass. I'm not a tier one under armor operator, but I know some. ;)

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 
xtry51 said:
Is Vaseline effective? Never heard of that, but it is flammable.
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If you put Vaseline on a windshield or any window you can't really get it off without patiently cleaning it. Wiping it off only smudges it and makes the worse.

It was a common gag at college to do it to someone's car... It's a pain in the a$$ to clean
 
NorthShore said:
If you put Vaseline on a windshield or any window you can't really get it off without patiently cleaning it. Wiping it off only smudges it and makes the worse.

It was a common gag at college to do it to someone's car... It's a pain in the a$$ to clean
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So you're saying a few potato guns loaded with Vaseline, or Vaseline covered rags, would be a decent option.

See this is getting creative now. Bearing grease is probably a decent option as well then.
 
JayMcB said:
[rofl][rofl]

I hope when the time comes to come and git me by MRAP, that I am far, far away.
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I'm only half joking. How many officers even know how to sight a rifle in properly, let alone fire it at 200-300 yards and know their drop? With the exception of a few cops here on the forum, most police I've shot with are worse with their rifles than they are with their pistols.
 
Move. Tight spaces. Sewers. If their armor is equipped with a canon of some sort, avoid roofs. Keep em busy by taking out infantry, to get them to group behind the vehicle. Use the dead angle. No more than 2 shots from the same position. Buildings can be a death trap, but they are confusing to the motorized enemy. Keep your group small, no more than 3 people, 2 is better.
I'm probably just making this stuff up. Maybe I've seen it on tv or something.
 
shadowr434 said:
A bit too intense there Mark. This was all a what if scenario. None of us are sure what we will do if that day ever comes. Most guys in the shit don't know what they will do till the shooting starts. Give it a rest with the billy bad ass stuff.
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You guys are talking about facing police and military in some kind of insurrection, and you call me Billy Bad Ass? Some are tongue in cheek responses but some are dead serious, these people want to blow up tanks and other armored vehicles and you call me billy bad ass?

Seems like it is more NES weirdness to me when a bunch of folks start talking about fighting some kind of armed insurrection, the majority have no real training and sound like wannabe billy bad asses that populate the majority of bars in the United States, but when I say, hey guys get a grip , I'm the billy bad ass [rofl] You guys wanna know the real deal talk to Skysoldier and Frenchman, they have actually fought insurgent warfare. Me, I just received training, that's all.
 
xtry51 said:
I would hope this would be common sense. If you're attacking someone, prepared to be shot at.

If you're going to shoot, either be out of their effective range (not hard when dealing with police) or shoot and move, shoot and move.
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I would hope so too!!!

Very few of those suggesting shooting at or throwing things at an armored vehicle have mentioned anything about the element of surprise, deception, distraction or the use of a ruse.

Plus "if" (there's that word) the vehicles are operating in pairs (like they should be), you gotta factor in the wing man.
 
That, or when Keene teams up with Concord or Nashua...

Andy in NH said:
Plus "if" (there's that word) the vehicles are operating in pairs (like they should be), you gotta factor in the wing man.
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So we only need to start worrying when Keene gets their second Bearcat. Gotcha.
 
mark056 said:
Seems like it is more NES weirdness to me when a bunch of folks start talking about fighting some kind of armed insurrection, the majority have no real training and sound like wannabe billy bad asses that populate the majority of bars in the United States, but when I say, hey guys get a grip , I'm the billy bad ass [rofl] You guys wanna know the real deal talk to Skysoldier and Frenchman, they have actually fought insurgent warfare. Me, I just received training, that's all.
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But I watched Red Dawn 27 times. Doesn't that count for something? [wink]
 
This & a Newport....all set.

t01_90605094.jpg



Damn....did that just put me on 'the list'?
 
mark056 said:
You guys are talking about facing police and military in some kind of insurrection, and you call me Billy Bad Ass? Some are tongue in cheek responses but some are dead serious, these people want to blow up tanks and other armored vehicles and you call me billy bad ass?

Seems like it is more NES weirdness to me when a bunch of folks start talking about fighting some kind of armed insurrection, the majority have no real training and sound like wannabe billy bad asses that populate the majority of bars in the United States, but when I say, hey guys get a grip , I'm the billy bad ass [rofl] You guys wanna know the real deal talk to Skysoldier and Frenchman, they have actually fought insurgent warfare. Me, I just received training, that's all.
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All I see is guys asking real questions about situation that may or may not occur in the future and you seem to be butt hurt over that. We get it, you soldier, we simple civilians. You got training, we have no clue about warfare. Heres a suggestion, instead of criticizing everyone, give opinion and advice. It is after all only hypothetical. Lighten up.
 
On Youtube there are tons of GoPro firefight vids and when SHTF mraps will be low on the worry list. The Military's new strategy seems to be keep the target busy with a fire fight until the A-10, Apache, or AC=130 show up and blow the shit out of them.
 
June4th said:
It's well established that Dench is the NES anti-armor expert. I vaguely remember he said all you need is a shovel and a bucket, or something like that.
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My Army "expedient anti armor warfare training" began with the words "Killing tanks is fun and easy too!"

The vehicles I've seen in Boston are proof against small arms fire at most. The National Guard has real-deal combat equipment.
 
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