Civilian defense against armored vehicles

[Rockrivr1]

(DISCLAIMER: To Martha, the NSA and all Aliens this is a non-fiction/fantasy thread. There is no threat here, just speculation. Enjoy the posts and I hope you have a nice day! ) Oh and if you are really readying this, Martha's a C You Next Tuesday, the NSA is a bunch of pussies and to the Aliens, live long and prosper!

Building upon my "Are you on the list?" thread, the question was raised as to what defense an every day normal American can use against an armored vehicle rolling up to his house. So I'm posing the question to NES. We're not the Taliban, most of us don't have explosives sitting around to use or rocket propelled grenades. I sit behind a computer screen programming most days. During my Navy day's I learned how to fix the crap out of F4s and FA-18s. Not how to defend against armored vehicles.

So the doomsday scenario happens. The order goes out to round up those 8 million American's considered to be to dangerous by our government (Oh and if I wasn't on the list before, I'd definitely am making it now) You know it's only a matter of time before the start rolling up to your home. They aren't taking any chances. What can you do? Is there anything you can do if they rolling in the armor?

I'm thinking circle your cars to block the driveway, but that would expose you to sniper activity if they are already there. Maybe an option if they aren't. If you know they are coming but not there yet, definitely bug out. But if staying put is the only option what is your defense?

Thoughts?

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

Molotov Cocktail?

 

[Jason Flare]

I'm already out of Dodge at that point.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

I'm already out of Dodge at that point.

ya i would have to agree, unless im the very first person rounded up without notice, im not sticking around once it starts

 

[not new guy]

 

[mclina]

Only the white guys fall for that one.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Molotov Cocktail?

Yeah, I'm not seeing this do much if an MRAP shows up on my street..... Plus it would probably be a waste of some 151. Sacraledge!

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Their not gonna fall for a banana in the tail pipe!

 

[murf4321]

cabin in the woods.

 

[June4th]

It's well established that Dench is the NES anti-armor expert. I vaguely remember he said all you need is a shovel and a bucket, or something like that.

 

[djmefitz]

Sticky bombs. Look them up. one can make an improvised one and attempt to launch it from heightened position. Another possibly is called a directional charge. A copper plate place in front of an explosive forms a bullet when detonated. These are purely speculative and just fiction. I don't want a no knock raid at my dwelling. ;-)

 

[swatgig]

A mote.

 

[whatluck]

 

[ToddDubya]

I'm already out of Dodge at that point.

Note, don't go to JF's house for help.

If anyone else is out there shooting, I think you yell "COVER ME" and run away as fast as your pee covered legs will carry you.

Well, first I'd feed the cats and give them plenty of water, then I'd leave one of them in charge, then run away. A day or two later I'd evacuate them. Leave no pets behind.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I live in rural New Hampshire. Given the state of our bridges, MRAP will sink into the first culvert it tries to cross.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have plenty of ideas and could even implement some of them...

 

[mav]

If you're alone and they role up on you, you have two options: surrender or fight and die gloriously. Period.

As far as defense against armored vehicles, all of the following assumes time to prepare and teams working together:
the idea is to slow them down, prevent them from accessing certain routes, impair their mobility or field of view, and disrupt any dismounts from advancing under their cover. You won't destroy them without anti-tank weapons or explosives.

1. Road blocks - use cars and trucks to block the road. They should be disabled to prevent them from being easily moved. Another option is to light them on fire to disrupt attempts to remove
2. Ramming - an SUV or large truck colliding at speed into an armored vehicle like an MRAP will most likely damage the target and stun/injure the crew. It is similar to Soviet tactics against German tanks of ramming T-34's into Panzers as a last ditch effort.
3. Molotov Cocktails. Again, the idea is to disrupt and disable. Fire and smoke will hinder vision and dismounts, which are the real threat with most LEO armored vehicles.
4. Coordinated Sniper fire - Barret .50 cal enough said... aim for soft spots... tires, vision slots and cameras, hatches and doors (when they open).
5. Trenches and ditches - assumes you have time to prep and the tools necessary to dig a deep enough anti-vehicle trench.

 

[Quiet]

They have to get out of it, no?

 

[ixia]

anyone expecting to "dig in" and fight off military or militarized police isn't living in the same reality as the rest of us. If you have armored vehicles in your driveway, you had better be elsewhere

 

[Rockrivr1]

4. Coordinated Sniper fire - Barret .50 cal enough said... aim for soft spots... tires, vision slots and cameras, hatches and doors (when they open).

I was just thinking of this. In your estimation would an AP 50 BMG round penetrate ballistic military grade glass at less then 100 yards? I'm thinking the question is yes.

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anyone expecting to "dig in" and fight off military or militarized police isn't living in the same reality as the rest of us. If you have armored vehicles in your driveway, you had better be elsewhere

I fully agree with you and I've said the same thing many times over. But, if you're in the first sweep of pick ups I'm doubting you'd be expecting it. That's when you have to make your decision on what to do next. The more options the better.

 

[mav]

anyone expecting to "dig in" and fight off military or militarized police isn't living in the same reality as the rest of us. If you have armored vehicles in your driveway, you had better be elsewhere

As I said, if an armored vehicle is in your driveway and you are alone and haven't prepped the area to delay/deny access, you have two options: surrender or die in place. No one is discussing that particular scenario. The saying "it takes a village" applies here. You don't fight armored vehicles alone. A more likely scenario would be armed resistance in a particular block or neighborhood. How do you delay/deny access and neutralize the tactical impact of an armored vehicle advancing on your position? It all depends on how much time you had to prep and what's available to you, but everything I listed in my post above would work.

I was just thinking of this. In your estimation would an AP 50 BMG round penetrate ballistic military grade glass at less then 100 yards? I'm thinking the question is yes.

I wouldn't count on a .50BMG penetrating ballistic glass. Stick to hatches and doors where dismounts can exit, as well as soft areas like sensors/cameras (FLIR) and tires if it's wheeled (yeah, I know run flats... but they don't run flat forever).

 

[Jason Flare]

anyone expecting to "dig in" and fight off military or militarized police isn't living in the same reality as the rest of us. If you have armored vehicles in your driveway, you had better be elsewhere

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I fully agree with you and I've said the same thing many times over. But, if you're in the first sweep of pick ups I'm doubting you'd be expecting it. That's when you have to make your decision on what to do next. The more options the better.

I've already taken the battery out of my phone with the stock market down today.

 

[Tater]

Run and hide have your bug out weapons ready to go with a 36 hour bag.... in civil unrest with a large population of indigenous people they cannot round everyone up. They will allow some free movement, that is when you go back for the non essentials. If you are stuck and the "Bad Guys" are outside your door rolling in an MRAP. They will eventually have to exit.... just like the beginning scene in Saving private Ryan. when the troop transport boats dropped the front gate the Germans opened fire and killed 80% of the troops. Then again this was pre-Kevlar.... Hopefully there are no more then 10 "bad guys" because of the MA 10 round limit....... god bless the Pre-ban mag! Then it's viet kong Taliban style hit and run tactics.

 

[atilla]

henry bowman, is that you?

 

[Tater]

google foo

https://uscrow.org/2013/04/08/how-t...tant-ambush-protected-light-armored-vehicles/

MRAP Disabling Methodology

The MRAPs have significant weaknesses that can be exposed during combat. However, MRAPs will pose a considerable threat to your militia or survival group. Integrate MRAP disabling in FTX until you have battle-tested methodology established for disabling light armored vehicles. The primary disadvantage civilian based militia and survival groups are faced with is the unavailability of required military-grade ordnance.

EFP MRAP Disabling

Survival and militia groups should understand the need for improvised munitions while identifying responsible munitions application planning.

EFPs/SEFPs are self-forging warhead projectiles that produce a shaped charge to penetrate FK6 armor from standoff distances. Warning to reader, EFPs should only be used during SHTF Situations, Martial Law, and Foreign Attacks under strict ROE (rules of engagement).

EFP MRAP PenetratorDon’t have any EFPs in your bunker? Thought not. This is where improvised munitions i.e. explosive devices come into theater. While IED EFPs and SIM EFPs are not military grade, they are still effective to a certain degree. The charges are generally cylindrical, fabricated from commonly available metal pipe, with the forward end closed by a concave copper disk-shaped liner to create a shaped charge. Explosive is loaded behind the metal liner to fill the pipe. Basically, the housing is glass filled polyurethane with an iron liner packed with a RDX C-4 mixture.

A military-grade example of this is the M2 SLAM (selectable lightweight attack munitions). Which is pocket sized and only a couple pounds. Don’t let the size fool you, the M2 SLAM can pierce the MRAP armor from 25 feet. For detailed instructions you can study the US Army Issued Improvised Munitions Handbook.

MRAP Armor Piercing Guns

To some degree .50 caliber firearms like the .50cal Browning Machine Gun (BMG) and the Barrett M82 can be effective, the disadvantage is unit exposure. Forcing the operator(s) to give up their position, in addition to engaging a target equipped with aerial support communication with surrounding ground forces. At all times, survival groups and militias should consider size of forces and ordnance in theater before engaging an MRAP.

MRAP Tip and Disable

The MRAP has a high center of gravity, thus making the American landscape a weapon against MRAP units. With the use of CCD, Decoy Tactics, and unit force application creating controlled movement into defined positions that include; weak bridges, bad roads, roads above grade, embankments and etc..

With this tip and disable method survival groups run a lower risk of exposure while preserving ammunition and ordnance. However, if hull penetration is required after the disabling of an MRAP the operators are likely to engage your group. Before approaching, your unit must take cover positions and engage the operators as they evacuate the MRAP. Unit leaders should always make the call…eliminate, or apprehend. Apprehension is only contingent upon overall mission success.

MRAP Pitfalls

Survival groups can protect established FOB’s (forward operating bases) and strategic sites by using a very old trap known as the pitfall. This method is typically used for animals, but the same methodology can be applied in the presence of suitable time allowance.

Pitfalls are holes in the ground with a false floor that have been camouflaged and disguised to emulate the floor-bed. Due to the size of LAVs/MRAPs the hole would have to be at least 18 x 8 x 4. This method should be applied by militia groups of substantial size that allow for a group of six to dig the hole in less than an hour, or when a backhoe is available.

Urban MRAP Disabling

Urban MRAP disabling will be reliant upon IEDs and .50 caliber rifles, other considerations can be made for smaller townships with fewer POEs (points of entry) that can be blockaded. Upon the arrival of one or more MRAPs at the POEs, militia units can acquire MRAP targets from a more advantageous position.

Blockades should consist of heavy equipment, abandoned cars, and other heavy payloads that are beyond the MRAPs debris clearing capabilities. Militia Exercises of this nature should take into account the MRAP CROWS II and M240G Operators capable of engaging targets occupying highrises and other buildings.

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In closing… such operations that include anti-MRAP defensive measures should be performed utilizing predator drone evasion and concealment techniques previously outlined on usCrow. MRAPs are nothing to joke about, they are a threat to your survival group and should always be treated as such.

A fair amount of deliberation took place before the writing of this article due to the active use of MRAPs in the Middle East by American Armed Forces. However, the methods reviewed in this guide had previously been established or are not operationally effective against USAF MRAPs in the Middle East.

 

[jpm]

First thing I do is take off my tinfoil hat and spray paint it flat black so the snipers have a harder target to hit

 

[ixia]

I fully agree with you and I've said the same thing many times over. But, if you're in the first sweep of pick ups I'm doubting you'd be expecting it. That's when you have to make your decision on what to do next. The more options the better.

Honestly, your only hope of not being Dorner'd is to have the ability to call for backup. Most of the ideas I'm seeing in this thread require a heads up to implement, which precludes their use if you are part of the first sweep. You're not going for the "soft spots" on an MRAP when it drives into your living room at 2am, but if you can get people to show up that are not already cornered you can stand a chance of surviving. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[FSTC]

Use water.

 

[ixia]

Use water.

especially effective during ARCTIC VORTEX activity

 

[spcantwell]

what no one has said a nagant with some surplus steel core stuff... it will get though anything that doesnt have actual 'armor plate'