Carry One In The Chamber

[goofycj7]

Personally I do not carry with a round in the chamber.
Yes it takes a moment to rack the slide but it gives me a moment to think about what is going on as well. Odds are I will be backing away from the situation with a moment to chamber a round.

Just personal preferance. Might be different if my glock had a safety and a heavy trigger.

 

[Du510]

One in the chamber? Always, always, always. If you're a right handed shooter, what if you're in a situation in which your left hand is injured, occupied, or otherwise unable to rack the slide? What if you encounter a situation in which surprise is your 2nd best tool? If you rack the slide, you give away your position & intent...

And about the holster - I would say its almost as important as the weapon itself. Without the ability to...

- depend on the draw in a 'situation'
- depend on it to retain when you want it retained (running to catch a cab, etc)
- be comfortable enough to enable sane daily carry

...what's the point?

 

[M1911]

I don't think twice about my little nylon $12 holster. You guys are going to make me paranoid with all this trigger guard holster talk.

You should be paranoid. Loaded guns are dangerous. That is why you need a good holster -- to secure the gun to you, and to cover the trigger guard to prevent an ND.

You spent $500 on a gun. You spend hundreds on ammunition. And you've spent $12 on a POS holster that won't retain the gun worth a damn.

Get yourself a proper holster. There are many to choose from. In general, you won't find a good holster at a gun store.

There are dozens of good holster makers. But Galco and Uncle Mikes are not among them -- most of their stuff is crap. Galco, in particular, is over-priced crap. And the holster that I bought from Wilson Combat is crap.

Here are some good ones:

Leather:

http://c-rusty.com
http://miltsparks.com/
http://www.kramerleather.com/home.cfm

Kydex:

http://www.comp-tac.com/
http://www.sidearmor.com/

 

[Chrisg67]

I've used cheap holsters before but do yourself a favor and buy a real one. They suck less.... a LOT less. You can probably get something 10 times
better and still stay well under $100.

+1

 

[Du510]

You should be paranoid. Loaded guns are dangerous. That is why you need a good holster -- to secure the gun to you, and to cover the trigger guard to prevent an ND.

You spent $500 on a gun. You spend hundreds on ammunition. And you've spent $12 on a POS holster that won't retain the gun worth a damn.

Get yourself a proper holster. There are many to choose from. In general, you won't find a good holster at a gun store.

There are dozens of good holster makers. But Galco and Uncle Mikes are not among them -- most of their stuff is crap. Galco, in particular, is over-priced crap. And the holster that I bought from Wilson Combat is crap.

Here are some good ones:

Leather:

http://c-rusty.com
http://miltsparks.com/
http://www.kramerleather.com/home.cfm

Kydex:

http://www.comp-tac.com/
http://www.sidearmor.com/

- Bianchi (ranger triad, to be exact)
- CrossBreed (supertuck, to be exact)

There are dozens of threads about quality holsters. Their importance rreally cannot be stressed highly enough, IMO.

FWIW, I also have a cheap UncleMikes holster too, for one of my pistols. I use it when I need a holster but not to carry, ie: next to the bed when my standard bedside-pistol is packed up or otherwise not in place.

 

[M1911]

And one more thing. Don't sometimes carry with one in the chamber and sometimes not. If you do that, eventually you will get into a situation where the gun is not in the condition that you think it is. The chamber will be loaded when you think it isn't (chance for ND).

Or the chamber will be empty when you think it is loaded. If that happens while Mongo is showing you his knife, then you could be in a world of hurt.

Decide how you are going to carry -- chamber empty or chamber full (I prefer chamber full). Then train that way and always carry that way. You've heard the saying: "train the way you fight, fight the way you train."

If you ever need to use your gun, you're going to have many, many things to think about in a very short period of time. One of the things that you don't want to have to think about at that time is: "is my gun loaded?"

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

Get a holster that you feel comfortale with - something that covers the trigger guard fully...

+1 to that.

If you're going to drop a pistol in your pocket for a quick trip to the store (for that proverbial loaf of bread that everyone always seems to need at 2:00 in the morning) and you don't have a holster for it, make sure there are no pens, keys, knives, phones, iPods, marital aids, etc. in that pocket with it.

 

[MXD]

That's all good advice. Honestly, the only reason that I did not shell out the cash for a real nice IWB holster is because I do not think the M&P will be my regular carry gun for very long. I know a hundred bucks isn't the end of the world but in times like these, I have to be a bit more cautious.

As far as being confused about what state my gun is in, I can agree that it is possible if I need to draw my weapon that I could get confused but as far as the other way around (AD), even when I know it's not chambered, I still treat it as if it was (Is that rule 1 or 2?). Every time I walk in my front door, I stop in the front hall behind the interior door and drop the mag and rack it 4 times then lock it open, visually inspect it, point it at the light till I see some light coming through the barrel into the mag well, then I put my finger over the front of the barrel and watch it go black. Finally, I close the slide, dry fire it, and re insert the mag. That is my religious routine regardless of wht state I think it's in.

 

[jar]

I'll second what a lot of people have said.

Get a proper holster (I love the comp-tac MTAC), get some good training (check out NEShooters under the training forum), carry with one in the chamber.

I've carried with one in the chamber from the beginning. I carried with an empty chamber around the house for a few days to convince myself the hammer wouldn't drop, then racked the slide and never looked back. Carrying with an empty chamber turns a handgun into a handSgun. If you ever do some serious force on force training (I can't recommend SouthNarc highly enough), you'll see that a gun without a round in the chamber is useless.

 

[M1911]

I know a hundred bucks isn't the end of the world but in times like these, I have to be a bit more cautious.

Decent kydex holster, $58 http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=53

You'll spend more than that in ammo in 2 hours on the range.

 

[Jose]

I know a hundred bucks isn't the end of the world but in times like these, I have to be a bit more cautious.

I've never paid $100 for a holster. Not even for custom leather.

 

[FLHTC]

I don't know if you've carried before but if carrying with one in the tube makes you nervous then I would suggest carrying with an empty chamber for a few days or weeks until your ready to carry with one in the tube. As stated here, racking the slide under adverse conditions can be difficult and time consuming. If you don’t belief me play this following game: set up two targets approximately 5 feet apart. Stand with your back facing the targets and have a friend with a stopwatch. Close your eyes and wait until your friend says go. Then you’ll need to draw from your holster, rack the slide, turn and double tap each target. You’ll be amazed at how long it takes.

 

[LT1MCSS]

Since we are on the subject of carrying with a round in the chamber, carrying without one in the chamber, whether or not both hands will be free I thought I would add this.

I am a righty so naturally I would have my gun somewhere on my right side whether it be IWB, or pocket. A shoulder holster or ankle holster would be on my left.

Regardless of what side you have your gun on you should try to keep some kind of weapon whether it be mace, knife or whatever your comfortable with in your left or vice vs.

The reasoning being is we cannot assume it would always be our left arm that might get grabbed and you can reach for your gun with your right. What if that person grabs your right arm???? Now they probably still won't knwo your carrying but you wouldn't be able to reach your gun. If you had something in your left you, hopefully you could get the person to let go long enough either to get the hell out of there or buy yourself enough time to back away and draw your weapon in a worst case scenario.

I guess that also brings up that matter of you should learn how to shoot with your other hand but thats another topic for another day.

 

[Underwhere]

I have a elite survival systems holster that i bought at 4 seasons. The clip is strong, the trigger guard is completely covered, and it doesn't seem that it would fall out. Its a snug fit. As far as holsters go...is this ok?

I think my main problem is that I'm new to carrying and afraid that something would 'magically' slip inside the trigger guard and pull back the eleventymillion pound trigger pull.

illogical i know.

training, walking around with a blast cap in the chamber and other suggestions are definitly what i need.

That's a good step towards carrying. A good holster is one that is molded to the gun. When I first got my license I got a nylon one with a clip on it...and I soon realized it was horrible and should never have gotten it to carry.

I carry with a Comptac IWB holster.

As far as holstering goes, you are right it is when most accidents happen with pistols. Practice holstering. When you do, put your finger high up on the slide and search for some indicator. Put your finger there every single time. As you, take your thumb and cover the back of the slide. This ensures that your slide does not snag and goes in with the slide fully forward.

Finger OFF the trigger!
People say this and I get the feeling that many do not take this to heart and think that after they get used to a gun they can forego this rule. If I pick up a plastic toy gun my finger is off the trigger. It should be burned into your head.

Do not carry if you are not comfortable. Walk around your house with snap caps. Practice holstering and drawing over and over again until you are.

Look into getting a holster online. Even the guys at Four Seasons will tell you to go online for that stuff.

I carry a FS M&P9 in a cheap little uncle Mikes IWB and the only time I don't have a round chambered is when I am with the wife and my 16 month old son in the car or somewhere will he will be crawling all over me. My thought behind the vehicle thing is that you should have more than enough time to chamber a round while driving. Stopping a car takes more than a few seconds. Other than that, I am chambered.

I don't think twice about my little nylon $12 holster. You guys are going to make me paranoid with all this trigger guard holster talk. Am I too lax?

I would never use an Uncle Mike's IWB nylon holster.
Be careful of bullet setback when you continuously chamber and eject cartridges. Over repeated loading you can actually push the bullet into the cartridge further than it can be causing extremely high pressures when fired.

Even a mediocre holster will not allow anyone to pull the gun out except for you. That is the problem with your Uncle Mike's. You should really consider getting another one.

You will not have time to draw, chamber and be ready in an emergent event.
Ever try driving and talking on a cell phone? That only involves one hand. Chambering a round involves two.

Ever had someone knock on your window at a red light? Ever been caught completely by surprise like that? Now imagine trying to draw, chamber and present your pistol after that.

My brother was almost carjacked this way. You don't have any time to think. If you aren't going prepared, don't bring it with you. By the time you draw and are trying to chamber a round he's already shot you in the face.

 

[M1911]

As far as holstering goes, you are right it is when most accidents happen with pistols. Practice holstering.

Certainly practice is important. But holstering and drawing from a holster is one place where I'm not big on DIY. This is an area where I strongly recommend that you get professional training. If you teach yourself, you may not realize that you are doing something unsafe -- something that a professional instructor will catch.

There are a number of places nearby to get that training, including:

Mas Ayoob, LFI1 - http://www.ayoob.com
Sig Sauer Academy, Concealed Carry Pistol - http://www.sigsaueracademy.com/Courses/ShowCourseDetails.aspx?cid=7&ccid=10

Also, NE Shooters is bringing in Louis Awerbuck to teach his Tactical Handgun State 1: http://www.yfainc.com/courses.html#handgun1
For all the NE guest shooters this year, see: http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=47903

 

[MXD]

I am signing up for the Armed Response class in May because I already knew the importance of learning the correct technique. You guys have also convinced me through this thread that a holster is equally as important. I have a Serpa that I got when I first started out because it gave me a level of security with the finger lock but it is too big for CC. I carried with the Uncle Mikes with it unchambered and cocked for a few weeks when I first got it and did not have one AD. I even tried to induce one but I couldn't. Maybe my test wasn't good enough. I have found the Uncle Mikes to not be too uncomfortable and I have never even come close to having my gun fall out. I will look at the crossbreed and comptac IWB

 

[MXD]

Be careful of bullet setback when you continuously chamber and eject cartridges. Over repeated loading you can actually push the bullet into the cartridge further than it can be causing extremely high pressures when fired.

The only way to eliminate this would be to either cycle through ammo in the magazine or leave it chambered at all times correct? I am a bit nervous of leaving a "hot" gun around my house even though it is locked up. The best way to avoid an accident is to make it impossible so I figured if I never have one in the chamber in my house, I will drastically reduce my already low low chances of an AD.

 

[Evergreen]

I have found the Uncle Mikes to not be too uncomfortable and I have never even come close to having my gun fall out. I will look at the crossbreed and comptac IWB

If you're interested in affordable alternatives to the Comptac Minotaur, you might try Kholster's Infinity Series for $35 with free shipping if you order by April 15. I just ordered one myself. I liked their 90-day return policy.

Happy shopping!

 

[Jose]

I am utterly amazed at how little some of you guys trust yourselves to safely operate simple machines like firearms.

Maybe my point of view is different because for almost all of my adult life I have been responsible for either operating or supervising the operation of extremely complex machinery and systems.

 

[M1911]

The only way to eliminate this would be to either cycle through ammo in the magazine or leave it chambered at all times correct?

Yes.

I am a bit nervous of leaving a "hot" gun around my house even though it is locked up. The best way to avoid an accident is to make it impossible so I figured if I never have one in the chamber in my house, I will drastically reduce my already low low chances of an AD.

IMHO, you are far more likely to have an ND loading and unloading your gun, than you are by just leaving it loaded. The gun won't go off by itself -- it will go off if someone is messing with it. So don't mess with it .

What I mean by that is that if you store the gun unloaded, then each morning you are taking the gun out of safe/lock box and loading it. Each evening, you are unloading the gun. In contrast, if you just leave it loaded, then all you do in the AM is holster and all you do in the PM is unholster. The additional handling of loading/unloading is increasing your risk of an ND, not decreasing it.

If you do decide to keep it loaded, then consider getting a dedicated lock box, separate from your other guns. Keep the other guns unloaded. Only the one in the lock box is loaded.

A loaded gun in your lock box isn't going to take itself out and fire.

 

[M1911]

I am utterly amazed at how little some of you guys trust yourselves to safely operate simple machines like firearms.

Lots of folks are new to firearms and have had a lifetime of the media talking about how guns "just go off." So their concern is very understandable.

 

[MXD]

IMHO, you are far more likely to have an ND loading and unloading your gun, than you are by just leaving it loaded. The gun won't go off by itself -- it will go off if someone is messing with it. So don't mess with it .

What I mean by that is that if you store the gun unloaded, then each morning you are taking the gun out of safe/lock box and loading it. Each evening, you are unloading the gun. In contrast, if you just leave it loaded, then all you do in the AM is holster and all you do in the PM is unholster. The additional handling of loading/unloading is increasing your risk of an ND, not decreasing it.

If you do decide to keep it loaded, then consider getting a dedicated lock box, separate from your other guns. Keep the other guns unloaded. Only the one in the lock box is loaded.

A loaded gun in your lock box isn't going to take itself out and fire.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person with a good amount of common sense but every so often I read or hear something and think....hmmm, how did I miss that, it makes perfect sense

This thread is full of good stuff that I haven't thought of. Thanks.

At the end of the day I think its a matter of personal comfort. We will all get there but I don't think anyone stepped out of the LTC class with 100% confidence right out of the gate. Some probably did these things but I'm referencing comfort level, not actions. I am realizing that sometimes what is comfortable might not be the best practice.

 

[M1911]

deleted

 

[M1911]

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person with a good amount of common sense but every so often I read or hear something and think....hmmm, how did I miss that, it makes perfect sense

Part of the issue is indoctrination. The media has indoctrinated people that guns will go off by themselves, and that if people get angry and there is a loaded gun nearby, that they will grab the gun and shoot someone. So, therefore, they assert it is safer if the gun and ammunition are separated. NRA doctrine has supported this in the past as well. This has caused a lot of people to have an irrational fear. It is not something to be ashamed of -- I had that same fear when I first got a gun.

I will suggest that you should not mix loaded guns with unloaded guns. That is, I won't store some guns in my safe that are loaded and some guns that are unloaded. I do have loaded magazines in my safe.

 

[Hanwei]

I agree with you Jose. If someone is so unsure of their own ability to safely handle a firearm, then they probably shouldn't be handling one.

However... if someone simply has the "beginner nerves" ie: isn't totally comfortable handling a firearm YET, let alone carrying one on a daily basis, then it's just a matter of time before they get comfortable.

MXD, most, if not all of us who carry everyday chambered... had the beginner nerves on our first days/weeks. I carry chambered because I'm of the opinion that an unloaded gun (unchambered) is useless. And I believe that thinking you will have the time or the ability to have two hands free to draw and rack the gun while in a fight for your life is doing yourself a disservice. (there are many reasons why you would only have one hand free, etc)

When I first started carrying the first step I had to overcome was understanding that the gun, while chambered, was NOT going to do anything unless I made it do something. And by "made it do something" I mean pulling the trigger. If I do not pull the trigger the gun will not do anything. Rule #2 of safe gun handling. And no matter how much you drop/knock around/kick your modern-day firearm, it WILL NOT GO OFF unless you pull the trigger.

Once I ingrained this "trigger off the finger" rule into my head (along with the other 2 safety rules), the next thing I had to do was become comfortable with handling and carrying by consciously following the safety rules 24/7.

And I say "become" because most of us don't start out completely comfortable. It's something we must do deliberately and carefully, something we must practice. And with practice comes the confidence in yourself to be safe with the gun.

Go as slowly as you need to while handling/transporting/drawing/holstering, etc while consciously making sure you're following the safety rules. If you go too fast, it's very easy to make a mistake. Ask me how I know. (No ND, but could have been. And you can bet I'll never make that mistake again!)

If you discipline yourself to always handle your firearm deliberately, always consciously following the safety rules while that gun is in your hand, you will be just fine.

Chamber your gun. Go slow. Take your time. Understand the fundamentals behind each rule of safe gun handling (why each rule is there). If you understand why the rules are there, and you make it priority #1 to follow these rules, you become more comfortable and confident in your ability to be safe.

Then again, I've been known to be wrong.

 

[Underwhere]

I am signing up for the Armed Response class in May because I already knew the importance of learning the correct technique.

Armed Response (the beginner course) does not teach you about holstering too much, nor how to draw from a holster. David also does not allow Serpa rentention holsters because the release puts your finger naturally near or on the trigger guard.

 

[PulpBuster]

This post brings back memories from just over a year ago, when I was completely new to concealed carry. I also worried about carrying with one in chamber.

So, I chose to practice the "Israeli" Carry (I believe that's what it's called carrying with empty chamber) with my sig p239. Practiced over and over, and felt relatively comfortable.

Then reading through a number of threads here, the ones that really convinced me to carry with round in chamber dealt with somehow having 1 hand incapacitated...for whatever reason. I felt that that is a very real possibility. So, no more "Israeli" carry for me.

I recently started carrying a walther PPS 9mm also...in a ctac 2 o'clock kydex holster. Just another holster idea. http://www.comp-tac.com/product_info.php?products_id=89

 

[CrossFrire]

Always have one in the chamber if you are going to carry.
Also, most modern arms are far better designed than the older guns and have better safety systems. I have no fears about my Betetta or my Ruger being fullibf loaded.
Make sure that you are totally familiar with your weapon and its operation.
BTW, I use an IWB leather holster from Don Hume and it's great and was les that $40.

 

[newenglandman]

I'll put my 2 cents worth in here and say that I'm actually sympathetic to the OP. Remembering the old adage that "the best gun to carry is the one you actually have with you when you need it", perhaps it's better for this person to carry in condition 3 than to not carry at all.

Any notion that having one in the chamber prepares one for all situations or that carrying with an empty chamber leaves one defenseless are both wrong. With one in the chamber your effective time to fire is lower (but not zero) and if you need to load a round your time to fire is longer, but probably not by more than two seconds if you have extensively practiced the move (preferably with snap caps). Scenarios involving injury to one hand are a problem, but so are scenarios involving injuries to two hands.

In other words, I'm not sure if it helps to view all CCW through the lens of "getting there the fastest with the mostest" as General Patton put it. Someone, even a novice, carrying a firearm securely and safely is in a better position to protect themselves and those around them than someone who has left their firearm at home because they are uncomfortable with the perceived risk of an AD.

 

[P2A]

Armed Response (the beginner course) does not teach you about holstering too much, nor how to draw from a holster. David also does not allow Serpa rentention holsters because the release puts your finger naturally near or on the trigger guard.

Just to clarify, the SERPA does not create NDs, retarded people who do not know how to handle a firearm create NDs. The whole "it puts my finger on a piece of plastic where the trigger is under and it attracts my finger like a magnet when I draw my pistol and I could pull the trigger" Is BS and flawed, plain and simple. Its a failure of training that the individual cannot draw their weapon safely. Its a cheap cop out to blame a piece of equipment for your own screw up. If someone wants to use a SERPA thats fine, the problem with a SERPA is that the button breaks not NDs. If thats what your going to use as your daily holster that is what you should train with.