Bug out Rifle

Danrk6 said:
+1

Out of my personal experience with the handful of AKs I have used, they have all jammed on me constantly. Sometimes they would even jam a number of times exceeding the number of rounds in the magazine. I don't own an AK, which is not to say I wouldn't mind owning one as a cheap range toy, but I will never buy the reliability argument.

ETA: I routinely burn through a couple thousand rounds in between cleaning my ARs, and it is never because they are ceasing to function.
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You don't own an AK,tried a handful of AKs (all have jammed),typically fire a couple thousand rounds out of your AR between cleanings, and belive that AK reliability is a myth.

Have you considered the Sig 556? [laugh]
 
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I like the AR platform chambered for the 308, an old trusted round found everywhere in New England. This round would be great for keeping the bad guys away and putting big game on the table if food every became and issue. The other rifle I have always been fond of is the Ruger Ranch Rifle. The company has made many improvements over the years to correct those earlier problems. Also, it could be used for bad guys and game. The 223 is gentle enough that any family memeber, spouse or children, could fire the round with confidence. This was an interesting question with a bazilion possibillities for answeres. Thanks, Snowshoe.
 
glostamon said:
You don't own an AK,tried a handful of AKs (all have jammed),typically fire a couple thousand rounds out of your AR between cleanings, and belive that AK reliability is a myth.

Have you considered the Sig 556? [laugh]
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Why would I consider a Sig 556? I don't understand the point of your post.
 
Coyote33 said:
Seemed popular enough here: Anyone own the Hipoint 9mm carbine?

Low cost, accurate, reliable. What is not to like?
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In MA you're stuck with 10 round mags unless you want to go illegal and, while I have no, repeat NO personal experience with them at all, I've heard reliability issue stories. YMMV.

If you're looking for a pistol caliber carbine I'd consider a lever action in .357 as the round has WAY better performance than the 9mm in that situation but that's your call. Me? I'd go with a center-fire rifle caliber.
 
Takis48 said:
Timber, I've only put a few hundred rounds through the AR but nothing more than that. I don't own an AK, but I had the opportunity to shoot one while in Greece. My uncle is an officer in the Hellenic Navy and took me to the range to shoot. Out of the M-16, AK-47, and H&K G3, I liked the AK better. The M-16 is more comfortable going fully-auto, while the AK is better in semi-auto (just all over the place in fully auto). I hated the H&K with a passion.
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If that is the sum total of your experience you would be well advised to listen instead of offering opinions as to which rifle is better than the others.

Many here have had several multi day fighting rifle training courses under their belts, each totaling from 1000 to 3000 rounds each, plus ownership of those rifles for years. Add to that practical rifle competitions and some of us have logged close to ten thousand rounds fired in training, practice, and competition with AR15 rifles.
 
Wow Jose and Eddie are being nice in the same week! It must be getting near to go time.

At the moment I would be grabbing the AR. If I could bring along anything else it would be the Mossberg 500 and then the 10/22, with the later along for game and ultimate last ditch necesity. All of the calibers I have are very common and that is not a mistake.
 
Jose said:
If that is the sum total of your experience you would be well advised to listen instead of offering opinions as to which rifle is better than the others.

Many here have had several multi day fighting rifle training courses under their belts, each totaling from 1000 to 3000 rounds each, plus ownership of those rifles for years. Add to that practical rifle competitions and some of us have logged close to ten thousand rounds fired in training, practice, and competition with AR15 rifles.
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And with some of the people posting here, actual experience with the M16 in combat - but I suspect they're too modest to put that out there.

So before you go giving credence to stuff you've read online, seen on TV etc, take a listen to some of the people who've been there.
 
fortitude42 said:
Couldn't agree more...the arguments for the reliability of a piston system outweigh the benefits of the standard AR platform. The 2 main reasons i hear people going with an AR over guns like the Sig 556 and FN SCAR are the weight and availability of parts.
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There's also cost. I can build a Tier-1 AR with optics for what a bare SCAR would cost me, and have a rifle that is just as reliable, for all practical purposes. Not much in the way of proprietary parts, either.

The Sig is heavy and has ergo issues with the mag release. If you have small hands, it sucks. Although the factory trigger is nice, and the cost has come way down, so there are certainly arguments there in its favor.

Those who crap on DI gas ARs have never run one that was built properly. My old Colt 6520 has had a net total of ONE stoppage in its lifetime (at least in my hands) and that was due to a garbage non-USGI 20 round magazine. (which would have likely jammed any rifle it was inserted into). I frequently go between 500 and 1500 rounds through it with nothing more than a couple of drops of oil. (and that's mostly just a "feel good" thing. ) It just runs...

Think long and hard if you really NEED a piston gun, you probably don't. I have an AK, and yeah, never cleaning it is great, but it's not half the rifle my AR is. Granted some of the piston guns out there are nice, (eg, ACR, SCAR, XCR etc) but IMO they're not worth the money unless you have money to burn and don't care about carrying around extra weight. Or you want one "just because". (which is acceptable answer at all times regardless). [grin]

-Mike
 
Danrk6 said:
Why would I consider a Sig 556? I don't understand the point of your post.
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Due to the numerous malfunctions & issues you've experienced with AKMs,I was presenting an alternative to the AK for a "Cheap range toy".

...as far as SHTF rifles I'm in the "Kermit the Frog" camp. [smile]
 
drgrant said:
Think long and hard if you really NEED a piston gun, you probably don't. I have an AK, and yeah, never cleaning it is great, but it's not half the rifle my AR is. Granted some of the piston guns out there are nice, (eg, ACR, SCAR, XCR etc) but IMO they're not worth the money unless you have money to burn and don't care about carrying around extra weight. Or you want one "just because". (which is acceptable answer at all times regardless). [grin]

-Mike
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That's pretty much why I got the XCR. Well, that and the fact that I got very lightly used at a very good price and I think the ergonomics and design are pisser.

With regards to weight, my AR has a VLTOR VIS (one piece upper receiver and railed forend) and an 18" heavy barrel. The XCR has a similar one piece upper/forend and a similar weight barrel but it's only a 16". I'd have to weigh them both but the mass is pretty similar. So with the AR I get 2" more barrel and it is more accurate.

I like them both.
 
Bob P said:
Agree. Gritty as hell and a lot of over-travel.
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Maybe it's Sig's quality control funhouse. The one's I've tried were pretty clean, but that's a sample of like two, so take that for what it isn't worth. Maybe they are endemically crappy. I know when the 556 first came out, it was an awful rifle in general with a lot of bugs. They still don't sell it with an offset charging handle, either. At least the price has come down to a better point.

-Mike
 
Gonzo said:
Are you shitting me? I have cleaning supplies in my cabinet that are well over three years old and I'm not about to run out. And considering how guns are simple machines and I could walk into my garage and have 5 lifetimes worth of cleaning supplies for all my guns if I realized that "brake cleaner" will clean more than just brakes and that "motor oil" will lube more than just motors, I get the impression you don't know how to think outside the box.
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Don't take shots like that, because my point was that you shouldn't have to worry about cleaning your rifle, and you definitely will not be able to stay in your safe house if you are "bugging out" which is what this thread is about. Assume and prepare for the worst...Id rather have a gun that I don't have to clean than risk it jamming up on motor oil...
 
fortitude42 said:
Don't take shots like that, because my point was that you shouldn't have to worry about cleaning your rifle, and you definitely will not be able to stay in your safe house if you are "bugging out" which is what this thread is about. Assume and prepare for the worst...Id rather have a gun that I don't have to clean than risk it jamming up on motor oil...
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None is blinder than those who do not wish to see........

Or more impolitely, you don't know crap about ARs
 
fortitude42 said:
Don't take shots like that, because my point was that you shouldn't have to worry about cleaning your rifle, and you definitely will not be able to stay in your safe house if you are "bugging out" which is what this thread is about. Assume and prepare for the worst...Id rather have a gun that I don't have to clean than risk it jamming up on motor oil...
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What rifle do you own and what's your experience with it?
 
Jose said:
None is blinder than those who do not wish to see........

Or more impolitely, you don't know crap about ARs
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I have a couple years of experience with AR's and thousands of rounds down the pipe. The rifles range from DTI, colt HBAR to smith and wesson. It has been my experience that with some neglect and failing to clean between some range outings that they have had malfunctions. I have had AK's with similar malfunctions. What i would grab in my safe to "bug out" is my Sig 556. The only one that has never hiccuped whatsoever. Ergonomically it fits my build better than the standard AR platform, and that is that.

Some believe that certain platforms will conform to absolutely everyone in any scenario. I am not ragging on anyone choosing their AR, or anyone choosing their AK. I have my reasons, and my experiences to back them up.
 
fortitude42 said:
I have a couple years of experience with AR's and thousands of rounds down the pipe. The rifles range from DTI, colt HBAR to smith and wesson. It has been my experience that with some neglect and failing to clean between some range outings that they have had malfunctions. I have had AK's with similar malfunctions. What i would grab in my safe to "bug out" is my Sig 556. The only one that has never hiccuped whatsoever. Ergonomically it fits my build better than the standard AR platform, and that is that.

Some believe that certain platforms will conform to absolutely everyone in any scenario. I am not ragging on anyone choosing their AR, or anyone choosing their AK. I have my reasons, and my experiences to back them up.
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Even SIG's need lube.
 
Seriously guys, if you're bugging out that means you did something wrong. Just make the other guy bug out. It's easy, you just need to get into a 4G inverted dive with him and take his picture. No rifle needed.
 

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