AZ - Jose Guerena Shot 60 Times By SWAT Team

[AntiHippie]

Who cares if their guns were empty? They each fired (what appears to be a large amount of ammo). Most of the training that I have seen is that when the immediate threat has passed to perform a tactical reload, so that they are fully loaded should a new threat emerge.

But wouldn't it be better to fire that last round in the magazine and have to reload under fire? Don't want to waste it. Budgets, and all, y'know.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

I was not there. I guess I am just speculating on what I read, but I am not getting it from a news source, I am getting the information from the actual police reports.

And yet you are asserting other posters have their facts wrong. In this instance, I will take the media over some fairytale written up in the police reports to make it look like the cops are clean on this one.

+1

Cops, society is starting to get tired of your shit. Seriously.

Seriously.

 

[TomH]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

We'll never know that for sure. The info is also from a bunch of guys who were completely incompetent, changed their stories a few times, etc. When you go to a home to arrest one man, and bring a pile of guys armed to the teeth, you're there to kill someone.

 

[Friday]

All this bickering about whose source of dubious information about flash bangs SWAT tactics are most accurate really belittles the death of an innocent man....this is devolved into a "who's right" pissing match that has nothing to do with the OP.

IBTL.

RIP, Marine.

 

[lupis42]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at [STRIKE]people[/STRIKE] goblins who [STRIKE]clearly identified themselves[/STRIKE] are cleverly disguised as Police Officer's don't you?

.

 

[Boghog1]

All this bickering about whose source of dubious information about flash bangs SWAT tactics are most accurate really belittles the death of an innocent man....this is devolved into a "who's right" pissing match that has nothing to do with the OP.

IBTL.

RIP, Marine.

I disagree, getting to the truth about the murder of a Marine does in no way belittle his death.

 

[joeendris]

I disagree, getting to the truth about the murder of a Marine does in no way belittle his death.

This

 

[Friday]

Yes, we'll certainly get to the bottom of it sitting her at our computers, arguing over the internet.

out.

 

[KBCraig]

I was not there. I guess I am just speculating on what I read,...

And yet, you are right, and everyone else here is wrong.

Gotcha.

 

[Sputa Arms]

Wow this is still a hot topic?????

um? we get it ​

 

[JD09]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

You do realize the SWAT team claimed that they were fired upon don't you?

Are you dismissing any fact that this team already has a track record on this case of not being truthful?

 

[namedpipes]

.

 

[Lamina]

Wow this is still a hot topic?????

um? we get it ​

FOAD AH. This should be front page news for however long it takes to put a needle in the real criminals arms. Sorry it bores you. Perhaps American Idol or Jersey Shore would suit your taste better.

 

[DrRansom]

FOAD shithead. This should be front page news for however long it takes to put a needle in the real criminals arms. Sorry it bores you. Perhaps American Idol or Jersey Shore would suit your taste better.

One of the serious, truly frightening problems in America is how many of the people here can take something like this, terrible in its own right and with serious consequences, and just turn the channel. Shrug, it's ok. That means it will be next time too.

 

[namedpipes]

.

 

[MassMark]

I think this horse can never be beaten...I think this story should remain bumped forever. This man was murdered - executed - plain and simple. No due process, no chance to "come out quietly with your hands up", no chance to face his accusers, be tried by a jury of his peers, see his son grow up, love his wife.... These animals and the system that unleashed them, robbed the earth of a father, son, brother, husband, friend, light...The longer we sit idly by and allow this tragic abuse of power continue and the longer those who stand behind the thin blue continue to look away, the farther we slide into the abyss of tyranny. Liberty and justice can no longer stand tolerant to the whims of those who see fit to erase it...

 

[Gadsden]

I think this horse can never be beaten...I think this story should remain bumped forever. This man was murdered - executed - plain and simple. No due process, no chance to "come out quietly with your hands up", no chance to face his accusers, be tried by a jury of his peers, see his son grow up, love his wife.... These animals and the system that unleashed them, robbed the earth of a father, son, brother, husband, friend, light...The longer we sit idly by and allow this tragic abuse of power continue and the longer those who stand behind the thin blue continue to look away, the farther we slide into the abyss of tyranny. Liberty and justice can no longer stand tolerant to the whims of those who see fit to erase it...

+ a million.

 

[bullseye]

I think this horse can never be beaten...I think this story should remain bumped forever. This man was murdered - executed - plain and simple. No due process, no chance to "come out quietly with your hands up", no chance to face his accusers, be tried by a jury of his peers, see his son grow up, love his wife.... These animals and the system that unleashed them, robbed the earth of a father, son, brother, husband, friend, light...The longer we sit idly by and allow this tragic abuse of power continue and the longer those who stand behind the thin blue continue to look away, the farther we slide into the abyss of tyranny. Liberty and justice can no longer stand tolerant to the whims of those who see fit to erase it...

You have nailed it!! The legislators are afraid of the police, whether its because of conversations they have had that never existed and the threats that go with those conversations or when one wins elected office, an unwritten rule is stamped into the new lawmakers brain.

 

[Terminator03]

I think this horse can never be beaten...I think this story should remain bumped forever. This man was murdered - executed - plain and simple. No due process, no chance to "come out quietly with your hands up", no chance to face his accusers, be tried by a jury of his peers, see his son grow up, love his wife.... These animals and the system that unleashed them, robbed the earth of a father, son, brother, husband, friend, light...The longer we sit idly by and allow this tragic abuse of power continue and the longer those who stand behind the thin blue continue to look away, the farther we slide into the abyss of tyranny. Liberty and justice can no longer stand tolerant to the whims of those who see fit to erase it...

like the others...+1 million% We can never just let this crap go and be complacent, because that is exactly how we got to where we are at now! I just wish there was some way to get the word out that we won't stand for this on any level. Unfortunately as whole, we are not organized enough to make any impact on the process as it stands now. I'm not speaking solely as gun owners, but as AMERICANS who are just fed up with the fact that this abuse of power and militarization of the police force exists. Like a cancer, the more it is left to it's own devices, the worse it will get, until it's too late to remedy...

 

[Boghog1]

all as a result of the second set of books, I somehow doubt no knocks would have been looked on as favorably with our founding fathers as they are by todays pols, we need a few anonymous tips about drug activity going on in our law makers homes and see how they feel after they go through this crap

 

[Terminator03]

all as a result of the second set of books, I somehow doubt no knocks would have been looked on as favorably with our founding fathers as they are by todays pols, we need a few anonymous tips about drug activity going on in our law makers homes and see how they feel after they go through this crap

That is a great idea "in concept", but knowing how much weight political influence carries, the police would either look the other way, or just dismiss it entirely if it involved high profile people. It is a great thought though, because nothing would drive that point home faster than the powers that be having their own front door kicked in, dog shot, and being face down on their own kitchen floor while an assault team invades their private space.

 

[namedpipes]

.

 

[Terminator03]

Then being a state rep or senator would be a great cover for running a meth lab in your basement. Hmmmmm.....

As a bonus I could tweet my weiner and make nookie on the floor of the state house!

Yep, and I have 2 words for you... Bill Clinton.

 

[dwarven1]

I somehow doubt no knocks would have been looked on as favorably with our founding fathers as they are by todays pols

You "somehow doubt"? I have no doubt whatsoever.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That is a great idea "in concept", but knowing how much weight political influence carries, the police would either look the other way, or just dismiss it entirely if it involved high profile people.

Wanna bet?

 

[KBCraig]

That is a great idea "in concept", but knowing how much weight political influence carries, the police would either look the other way, or just dismiss it entirely if it involved high profile people.

Wanna bet?

The SWAT team in that case didn't even know whose house they were raiding, let alone that he was the mayor.

 

[Sputa Arms]

FOAD AH. This should be front page news for however long it takes to put a needle in the real criminals arms. Sorry it bores you. Perhaps American Idol or Jersey Shore would suit your taste better.

WOW!.....you told mee!

I said nothing about it being boring ya FUD.. Just a little overkill.. K?

 

[calsdad]

If you are not doing anything illegal why would the cops be coming in? If the gangs were using this same tactic of anouncing themselves as the police would you want to take the chance?
I keep hearing the argument with police and government actions "if you have noting to hide/doing nothing illegal why would you have a problem with searches/no knock entrances/ect"
Well if I am doing nothing illegal I would assume whomever is breaking down my door is a criminal and looking to kill me, not the police looking for non-existant drug dealers.
The situation which has been created is lose/lose for everyone involved. If the marine had not put his weapon on safe and shot at the dark figures breaking into his house several officers might have died and a criminal would have been created, now a family lost it's husband/father/son because of this.
If this Marine had been a criminal he had the drop on the officers and might have taken several out.
To bad no one will actually work on a better solution rather then justifying the actions taken.

Which is why I said that people need to get it embedded deep into their conciousness that they need to defend themselves - and it should not matter who is coming thru the door, a criminal or some sort of "legal" agency.

YOU ARE GOING TO DIE ANYWAY. Whether you did something wrong - or not. In fact you are probably LESS likely to die if the people coming thru the door are what are traditionally thought of as "criminals" - because once the shooting starts they will more than likely scatter.

My question is this: If I am innocent, and armed men are coming thru my front door armed to the teeth and trigger happy - why should I be the only one that dies? Especially given the widely understood reality that most of these "raids" are done over drugs - something that society has massive differences on about whether or not they should be legal or not. And also given the massive level of screw ups during these raids.

 

[Terminator03]

Which is why I said that people need to get it embedded deep into their conciousness that they need to defend themselves - and it should not matter who is coming thru the door, a criminal or some sort of "legal" agency.

YOU ARE GOING TO DIE ANYWAY. Whether you did something wrong - or not. In fact you are probably LESS likely to die if the people coming thru the door are what are traditionally thought of as "criminals" - because once the shooting starts they will more than likely scatter.

My question is this: If I am innocent, and armed men are coming thru my front door armed to the teeth and trigger happy - why should I be the only one that dies? Especially given the widely understood reality that most of these "raids" are done over drugs - something that society has massive differences on about whether or not they should be legal or not. And also given the massive level of screw ups during these raids.

I have pondered these very questions myself many times!

 

[MassMark]

Bump. Because I will not let this die, because this dead horse has not been beaten...Because Jose and the people that loved him deserve justice. Because the Pima County SWAT team are murderers...

The family of Jose Guereña, who was shot and killed by five SWAT officers during a raid May 5, disputed a country report which clears the agents of any wrongdoing. The attorney for Guereña's family said last week that the investigation should have been done by an outside agency.
"This was a biased investigation; in fact it's hardly an investigation," said Christopher Scileppi. "The Pima County Attorney's Office works hand-in-hand with the Sheriff's Department and is not in a position to pass unbiased judgment."
Chief Criminal Deputy David Berkman determined there is no basis on which to prosecute officers from the Pima County Regional SWAT team because they were justified in using deadly force.
The officers shot at Guereña 71 times while serving a search warrant related to a drug-trafficking investigation, documents show, striking him 22 times.

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/article_d3a3dbba-9d18-11e0-8858-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1QCjJRVhy

http://azstarnet.com/article_d3a3dbba-9d18-11e0-8858-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[xtry51]

+1 to the bump.