AZ - Jose Guerena Shot 60 Times By SWAT Team

[jarhead66]

[sad2]

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."
Adolph Hitler

 

[Boghog1]

to mr OK City PD guy
fact being reported say ther were two flash bangs deployed in the rear yard

Guerena told detectives that her first inkling that anything was up that morning came when she heard loud bangs, which appears to be a reference to the SWAT team's deployment of flash/bang devices seconds before officers broke down the front door. The raid video released by the sheriff's department shows that only 23 seconds elapsed between the bang of the diversionary devices and the start of the gunfire. But on close questioning, Ms. Guerena also appeared to acknowledge that she did hear a siren at one point. The raid video shows the siren sounded 35 seconds before the start of gunfire.

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14878050...y-5-swat-raid-moved-very-fast?redirected=true

I would love to have the police report showing they were or were not used but the story changed more times than Lana Turner, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Liz Taylor has been married combined

 

[OCPD806]

to mr OK City PD guy
fact being reported say ther were two flash bangs deployed in the rear yard

http://www.kgun9.com/story/14878050...y-5-swat-raid-moved-very-fast?redirected=true

I would love to have the police report showing they were or were not used but the story changed more times than Lana Turner, Zsa Zsa Gabor, Liz Taylor has been married combined

You are atleast acknowledging that the story has changed alot since the original incident. I am sure you know that the MSM only shows what they want, and for the most part dont show the entire story.

But since the Police are always wrong, why would this be any different?

 

[Terminator03]

You are atleast acknowledging that the story has changed alot since the original incident. I am sure you know that the MSM only shows what they want, and for the most part dont show the entire story.

But since the Police are always wrong, why would this be any different?

What makes you so sure that the flash bangs weren't used (not that this is a critical component of what happened)? Multiple sources mentioned them being used as a diversion, and they are certainly used frequently as diversions in these sort of operations, so why are you digging your heals in on that issue? Were you there, or just speculating based on which article you choose to believe?

 

[OCPD806]

What makes you so sure that the flash bangs weren't used (not that this is a critical component of what happened)? Multiple sources mentioned them being used as a diversion, and they are certainly used frequently as diversions in these sort of operations, so why are you digging your heals in on that issue? Were you there, or just speculating based on which article you choose to believe?

I was not there. I guess I am just speculating on what I read, but I am not getting it from a news source, I am getting the information from the actual police reports.

Everyone is stating from what they read or seen from the MSM that the flashbangs were used in the back of the house, why would SWAT members use flashbangs in the back yard? it would be pointless. SWAT only breached the front door, there was no other place that flashbangs could have been put into the house. There would not be any LEO's on the other side of the house, in case shooting was to happen. Them being on the other side of the house would make it impossible to watch thier cross-fire.

It was not my intention to be rude to anyone here, but when you hear the same things over and over from people that do not have any experience or knowledge it gets old. Talk like that makes all LEO's look bad, and I take offense to that.

 

[xtry51]

I was not there. I guess I am just speculating on what I read, but I am not getting it from a news source, I am getting the information from the actual police reports.

Everyone is stating from what they read or seen from the MSM that the flashbangs were used in the back of the house, why would SWAT members use flashbangs in the back yard? it would be pointless. SWAT only breached the front door, there was no other place that flashbangs could have been put into the house. There would not be any LEO's on the other side of the house, in case shooting was to happen. Them being on the other side of the house would make it impossible to watch thier cross-fire.

It was not my intention to be rude to anyone here, but when you hear the same things over and over from people that do not have any experience or knowledge it gets old. Talk like that makes all LEO's look bad, and I take offense to that.

I think it's abundantly clear to anyone, who has minimal knowledge of how a well trained SWAT team should work, and watched the video can see they weren't acting professionally or with clear thinking.

1) All bunched in front of door
2) backs turned upon breach with rifles slung
3) No entry column or even attempt to enter home upon breaching door
4) The retard running up and unloading his pistol right next to the faces of other already shooting teammates with no clear target.

There was nothing even close to order with this "SWAT team". Give any bunch of retards guns and armor and they can knock down a door and unload a clip. There's not even one of them who tries to reload when empty.

These are bad LEOs at best. More like full retard tacticool murderers in my book.

It's clear from the way they unloaded, without evac'ing the neighbors homes that they were completely blind to the possibility of crossfire or stray rounds.

 

[JoeT]

. I am sure you know that the MSM only shows what they want, and for the most part dont show the entire story.

But since the Police are always wrong, why would this be any different?

do we read different newspapers? The vast majority of the time the MSM sides with the .gov and the JBTs

 

[Terminator03]

I was not there. I guess I am just speculating on what I read, but I am not getting it from a news source, I am getting the information from the actual police reports.

Everyone is stating from what they read or seen from the MSM that the flashbangs were used in the back of the house, why would SWAT members use flashbangs in the back yard? it would be pointless. SWAT only breached the front door, there was no other place that flashbangs could have been put into the house. There would not be any LEO's on the other side of the house, in case shooting was to happen. Them being on the other side of the house would make it impossible to watch thier cross-fire.

It was not my intention to be rude to anyone here, but when you hear the same things over and over from people that do not have any experience or knowledge it gets old. Talk like that makes all LEO's look bad, and I take offense to that.

Thanks for explaining further. I can see why it would not make sense to have officers actually positioned at the back, but that doesn't preclude them from tossing some flashbangs over the wall at the rear, just for diversionary tactics, does it?

As for the part that I highlighted... it is actually LEOs such as the ones that this story focuses on which makes LEOs in general look bad, not the people discussing this clusterf**k of an operation. I can see why you would feel piled up on being in law enforcement, but condoning this type of behavior is a big part of the problem inmo.

 

[OCPD806]

3) No entry column or even attempt to enter home upon breaching door
4) The retard running up and unloading his pistol right next to the faces of other already shooting teammates with no clear target.

There was nothing even close to order with this "SWAT team". Give any bunch of retards guns and armor and they can knock down a door and unload a clip. There's not even one of them who tries to reload when empty.

These are bad LEOs at best. More like full retard tacticool murderers in my book.

It's clear from the way they unloaded, without evac'ing the neighbors homes that they were completely blind to the possibility of crossfire or stray rounds.

These are the only things from your post that I wil address.

You are correct no entry was attempted after breaching the door, that is because right after the door was breached they saw a AR-15 pointed at them, which had to be taken care of first. They will not enter until they can verify he is no longer a threat.

The officer was negilgent when he blindly fired his weapon. I have no excuse for his actions.

Do you know anything about how a SWAT team operates, other than what you have seen on TV or the Movie SWAT?
What makes you think that any of them ran their guns dry? no need to reload when you still have rounds in the mag, also less than 2 minutes of the video was released to the public.

Murder requires pre-meditation, they did not go there to kill the guy just serve a warrant, so in no way could it be considered murder.

They(SWAT) had no intentions to get involved in a OIS, so they wouldnt evac. the other houses.

I will leave it at this, nobody has to agree with what I am saying. You can believe that SWAT did the wrong thing.

But they were serving a warrant signed by a judge, and the shooting has been ruled as justified.

 

[OCPD806]

Thanks for explaining further. I can see why it would not make sense to have officers actually positioned at the back, but that doesn't preclude them from tossing some flashbangs over the wall at the rear, just for diversionary tactics, does it?

As for the part that I highlighted... it is actually LEOs such as the ones that this story focuses on which makes LEOs in general look bad, not the people discussing this clusterf**k of an operation. I can see why you would feel piled up on being in law enforcement, but condoning this type of behavior is a big part of the problem inmo.

I wont say that throwing a flashbang over the house/wall couldn't/wouldn't be done, but in this case it did not happen.

The problem is that the SWAT officers did not do anything wrong or illegal. They did not go to this house because they wanted to, they just like everyone that works, have to do what the boss tells them to. A judge authorized the warrant, they were only serving it, someone pointed a gun at them, they did what any armed person would do and thats defend themselves.

The issue I have is that people are taking it out on the police, they were doing their job.

If people have a issue with what happened, they need to take it up with the Judge that signed the warrant, or with the state Senator, or Govenor.

 

[josh2600]

troll?

 

[radioman]

These are the only things from your post that I wil address.

You are correct no entry was attempted after breaching the door, that is because right after the door was breached they saw a AR-15 pointed at them, which had to be taken care of first. They will not enter until they can verify he is no longer a threat.

The officer was negilgent when he blindly fired his weapon. I have no excuse for his actions.

Do you know anything about how a SWAT team operates, other than what you have seen on TV or the Movie SWAT?
What makes you think that any of them ran their guns dry? no need to reload when you still have rounds in the mag, also less than 2 minutes of the video was released to the public.

Murder requires pre-meditation, they did not go there to kill the guy just serve a warrant, so in no way could it be considered murder.

They(SWAT) had no intentions to get involved in a OIS, so they wouldnt evac. the other houses.

I will leave it at this, nobody has to agree with what I am saying. You can believe that SWAT did the wrong thing.

But they were serving a warrant signed by a judge, and the shooting has been ruled as justified.

Then what were they their for? To give the family a plate of muffins??

They were armed with every sort of weapon and no skill. Officers falling backwards, officers seeing flashes and assuming they were being fired upon?? Officers firing blindly?? These guys are supposed to be the best trained people on the team? They dropped the ball in a big and bad way and refuse to take the responsibility. There sheriff was the first to say Gabby was shot by a tea party person but when his ass is on the line he shuts down all information?? These people are 100% responsible for this mans death and should step up and say so. This case is a national disgrace!!

 

[drgrant]

But they were serving a warrant signed by a judge, and the shooting has been ruled as justified.

Yeah, because it's "legal" that somehow makes it all better.

-Mike

 

[atmay]

I wont say that throwing a flashbang over the house/wall couldn't/wouldn't be done, but in this case it did not happen.

The problem is that the SWAT officers did not do anything wrong or illegal. They did not go to this house because they wanted to, they just like everyone that works, have to do what the boss tells them to. A judge authorized the warrant, they were only serving it, someone pointed a gun at them, they did what any armed person would do and thats defend themselves.

The issue I have is that people are taking it out on the police, they were doing their job.

If people have a issue with what happened, they need to take it up with the Judge that signed the warrant, or with the state Senator, or Govenor.

"I was just following orders" didn't fly at Nuremberg, and it don't fly here either. The judge isn't the only one who probably ought to be swinging from a tree.

 

[OCPD806]

Then what were they their for? To give the family a plate of muffins??

They were armed with every sort of weapon and no skill. Officers falling backwards, officers seeing flashes and assuming they were being fired upon?? Officers firing blindly?? These guys are supposed to be the best trained people on the team? They dropped the ball in a big and bad way and refuse to take the responsibility. There sheriff was the first to say Gabby was shot by a tea party person but when his ass is on the line he shuts down all information?? These people are 100% responsible for this mans death and should step up and say so. This case is a national disgrace!!

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

 

[MtRiverCharlie]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

A lot of criminals clearly identify themselves as Police Officers too. That number is increasing all the time.

The difference is that you can tell they are legitimate Police when they shoot your dog.

 

[n1oty]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

Well, we only have that story from the team that entered and killed the homeowner. This is the same group of incompetent boobs who tripped over their own feet and SWORE Guerena was firing at them. Obviously, subsequent processing of the scene revealed that the firing observations were completely wrong or false.

Look, 35 years ago we all loved doing high speed pursuits at the drop of a hat and for minor infractions. The adrenalin rush was a blast. The problem was that a LOT of people, innocent people and perps, were getting killed or injured in the process. As curbs were introduced regarding when pursuit's could be carried out, LEO's far and wide predicted wholesale contempt-of-cop situations and that everyone would speed off once the lights were activated. This did not come to pass.

Now, explain to me why a department can use a SWAT team to execute a search warrant on a guy whose only apparent transgressions were he is related by marriage to an apparent major drug figure, he was once in the vehicle with said BIL where saran wrap was found and he was once arrested in an apparent mix up with his BIL and the authorities dropped charges against him???

Just as a lot of people were being executed with stupid tactics 35 years ago regarding vehicle chases, law enforcement's perpetuation with these SWAT raids for frivolous matters is doing the same exact thing. Your presentation of the classic Nuremburg defense doesn't wash either. That's why I refused to work with guys for such attitudes. Yeah, there were always a couple of guys on the job who couldn't think for themselves and resorted to "I was only doing as I was told".

 

[Jose]

"I was just following orders" didn't fly at Nuremberg, and it don't fly here either. The judge isn't the only one who probably ought to be swinging from a tree.

+1

Cops, society is starting to get tired of your shit. Seriously.

 

[Boghog1]

two things, is there photo proof he pointed the weapon at them? and murder does not require premeditation. unless by premeditation means you decide you want to kill someone a fraction of a second before you actually commit the act

 

[xtry51]

These are the only things from your post that I wil address.

You are correct no entry was attempted after breaching the door, that is because right after the door was breached they saw a AR-15 pointed at them, which had to be taken care of first. They will not enter until they can verify he is no longer a threat.

The officer was negilgent when he blindly fired his weapon. I have no excuse for his actions.

Do you know anything about how a SWAT team operates, other than what you have seen on TV or the Movie SWAT?
What makes you think that any of them ran their guns dry? no need to reload when you still have rounds in the mag, also less than 2 minutes of the video was released to the public.

Murder requires pre-meditation, they did not go there to kill the guy just serve a warrant, so in no way could it be considered murder.

They(SWAT) had no intentions to get involved in a OIS, so they wouldnt evac. the other houses.

I will leave it at this, nobody has to agree with what I am saying. You can believe that SWAT did the wrong thing.

But they were serving a warrant signed by a judge, and the shooting has been ruled as justified.

1) If you admit this was not proper procedure, then how on Earth can you say that the courts decision and the internal review that found "no errors" in the conduct of the raid are legitimate conclusions?
2) Yes I do know a fair amount about how they are supposed to operate. These guys were idiots, not real SWAT
3) If a SWAT team is on scene I would very well hope they ALWAYS assume they're going to be shot at. If there's no risk of shooting there's absolutely no reason for SWAT to even be there.
4) Doing stupid things approved by stupid people is not an excuse.

A properly trained SWAT team would spend hours on drills that accustomed themselves to having fellow teammates shooting next to them. Such a team would NEVER mistake a fellow officer's muzzle flash for the perp's, which is exactly what the members here are claiming happened.

Also I really like how you ignored half of my previous points. Either they should be in an entry column behind the lead man and shield ready to enter BEFORE the door is breached, or they should have been spread out in defensive positions. If they had been fired upon before the door was breached they were sitting ducks.

These guys are supposed to be Special Weapons and Tactics, not f'ing Keystone Cops.

 

[Blitz1]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

You're honestly trying to justify this whole situation? Seriously?

 

[MassMark]

And the beat goes on in Arizona...Guerena has company...

 

[MassMark]

Never call the police - never call the police unless you're prepared to have your son and dog executed....Looks like it was 'Two For One Day' in Phoenix...

 

[Terminator03]

Well, we only have that story from the team that entered and killed the homeowner. This is the same group of incompetent boobs who tripped over their own feet and SWORE Guerena was firing at them. Obviously, subsequent processing of the scene revealed that the firing observations were completely wrong or false.

Look, 35 years ago we all loved doing high speed pursuits at the drop of a hat and for minor infractions. The adrenalin rush was a blast. The problem was that a LOT of people, innocent people and perps, were getting killed or injured in the process. As curbs were introduced regarding when pursuit's could be carried out, LEO's far and wide predicted wholesale contempt-of-cop situations and that everyone would speed off once the lights were activated. This did not come to pass.

Now, explain to me why a department can use a SWAT team to execute a search warrant on a guy whose only apparent transgressions were he is related by marriage to an apparent major drug figure, he was once in the vehicle with said BIL where saran wrap was found and he was once arrested in an apparent mix up with his BIL and the authorities dropped charges against him???

Just as a lot of people were being executed with stupid tactics 35 years ago regarding vehicle chases, law enforcement's perpetuation with these SWAT raids for frivolous matters is doing the same exact thing. Your presentation of the classic Nuremburg defense doesn't wash either. That's why I refused to work with guys for such attitudes. Yeah, there were always a couple of guys on the job who couldn't think for themselves and resorted to "I was only doing as I was told".

Very well said, John!

 

[Terminator03]

You do realize that the deceased pointed a rifle at people who clearly identified themselves as Police Officer's don't you?

Well, as others have pointed out, the deceased "allegedly" pointed the AR at the team. Because of so many differing variations in the accounts of what happened given by the officers themselves, we will never know for absolute certainty that he actually had the gun in his hands when they breached the door. He may have set it down on the floor once he realized it was actually swat busting in the door. Why else would the safety have been engaged? I know damn well if my rifle is in my hands pointed at a door that is about to be breached - there would be no safety engaged. For all we know, the mere presence of the weapon on the scene was utilized as justification for the shooting. Ever considered that?

 

[MassMark]

Never call the police - never call the police unless you're prepared to have your son and dog executed....Looks like it was 'Two For One Day' in Phoenix...

BTW: Pay attention to Marino at 2:56 talking about "due process"... It's a peach...

 

[SteelShooter]

BTW: Pay attention to Marino at 2:56 talking about "due process"... It's a peach...

yea, and innocent until proven guilty -unless you piss off a cop with previous violations.

 

[joeendris]

Marino: Well, John, at this point we're standing behind our officer.
Reporter John: Yeah, and I get that. I understand the Thin Blue Line...

Marino: We do have what's called due process, we do have civil rights, and there's also the pressumption that a person is innocent until proven guilty

Not for this guy, or his dog, apparently.

Mike Johnson reference

 

[GraftonNH]

You are correct no entry was attempted after breaching the door, that is because right after the door was breached they saw a AR-15 pointed at them, which had to be taken care of first. They will not enter until they can verify he is no longer a threat.

The officer was negilgent[sic] when he blindly fired his weapon. I have no excuse for his actions.

Do you know anything about how a SWAT team operates, other than what you have seen on TV or the Movie SWAT?
What makes you think that any of them ran their guns dry? no need to reload when you still have rounds in the mag, also less than 2 minutes of the video was released to the public.

You're suggesting SWAT teams are trained to retreat at the slightest resistance and "wait it out"? My understanding is that they are trained to clear a building of all threats. THAT is how you verify there is "no longer a threat."

I'd say we all learned a little something about how A SWAT team operates, this specific SWAT team anyway. What is in question is how a properly functioning SWAT team SHOULD operate. As it was said before, this team had the SW but appeared lacking in the AT.

Who cares if their guns were empty? They each fired (what appears to be a large amount of ammo). Most of the training that I have seen is that when the immediate threat has passed to perform a tactical reload, so that they are fully loaded should a new threat emerge.

 

[joeendris]

A lot of criminals clearly identify themselves as Police Officers too. That number is increasing all the time.

The difference is that you can tell they are legitimate Police when they shoot your dog.

They got me dawg <again>! It muss be dem PO-lees! <throws rifle's safety to ON>

I'd say we all learned a little something about how A SWAT team operates, this specific SWAT team anyway. What is in question is how a properly functioning SWAT team SHOULD operate. As it was said before, this team had the SW but appeared lacking in the AT.

I think they perfectly hit the AT....attack and terrorize.