AR pistol vs. AR SBR

I don't think anybody should give a shit about that letter. Using something other than as intended does not "redesign" it. You could attach a dildo to the back of your rifle and use it as a shoulder stock - does the ATF really think that anyone (esp. a judge) is going to buy the argument that the dildo was "redesigned"?? F that noise. Just don't modify the Sig Brace in any way.
 
Just to clarify, if you can attach a dildo to the back of your rifle without altering it in any way, or "designing" a means of attachment, it's still a dildo. It wasn't designed to be a shoulder stock. Same goes for the sig brace, legally speaking.

If the dildo analogy bothers you: 1) you're a dildo 2) it's because this whole thing is so absurd, seems just as appropriate to pick an equally absurd example.
 
I don't pay attention to what the ATF says since what they actually plan on arguing in court won't be written down until after you're arrested. Anyone who actually pays attention would know this.
 
exodious said:
I don't think anybody should give a shit about that letter. Using something other than as intended does not "redesign" it. You could attach a dildo to the back of your rifle and use it as a shoulder stock - does the ATF really think that anyone (esp. a judge) is going to buy the argument that the dildo was "redesigned"?? F that noise. Just don't modify the Sig Brace in any way.
Click to expand...

PowerPoint directions pls.
 
exodious said:
Just to clarify, if you can attach a dildo to the back of your rifle without altering it in any way, or "designing" a means of attachment, it's still a dildo. It wasn't designed to be a shoulder stock. Same goes for the sig brace, legally speaking.

If the dildo analogy bothers you: 1) you're a dildo 2) it's because this whole thing is so absurd, seems just as appropriate to pick an equally absurd example.
Click to expand...

Directions unclear, dildo stuck in sig brace.
 
Conceptually, at least to me, there's not much good to an SBR. House clearing doesn't happen in the real world and an AR or AK pistol would work better anyway. Long distance shooting with an SBR is a silly concept at best. Accuracy and power would be a thinking man's want there. Not that full size AR's or AK's have excess of both. So it boils down to this. Because I can. I'll not claim my firearm choices are better than yours, only that they work for me and "because I can".
 
This assumes we are only talking about rifle caliber SBRs and ignoring suppressors

Long distance shooting with an SBR is a silly concept at best. Accuracy and power would be a thinking man's want there. Not that full size AR's or AK's have excess of both. So it boils down to this. Because I can. I'll not claim my firearm choices are better than yours, only that they work for me and "because I can".
Click to expand...

Nobody is saying "because I can" isn't part of why we make a particular choice, just that the decision also includes other factors, including "because it's the best fit for a particular use".

Steve Marshall said:
Conceptually, at least to me, there's not much good to an SBR. House clearing doesn't happen in the real world and an AR or AK pistol would work better anyway.
Click to expand...
While I admit it doesn't happen regularly, house clearing does happen. I'm certainly not going to drag the cops up here every time something goes bump in the night, when it's probably just a bear tearing apart my grill to get to the grease trap.

In what way would an AR or AK pistol "work better" than an SBR for house clearing? Isn't an AR or AK pistol just a poor man's SBR? (Thus the popularity of the SIG brace).
 
Steve Marshall said:
Conceptually, at least to me, there's not much good to an SBR. House clearing doesn't happen in the real world and an AR or AK pistol would work better anyway. Long distance shooting with an SBR is a silly concept at best. Accuracy and power would be a thinking man's want there. Not that full size AR's or AK's have excess of both. So it boils down to this. Because I can. I'll not claim my firearm choices are better than yours, only that they work for me and "because I can".
Click to expand...
Define long distance shooting?
 
Kevin_NH said:
In what way would an AR or AK pistol "work better" than an SBR for house clearing? Isn't an AR or AK pistol just a poor man's SBR? (Thus the popularity of the SIG brace).
Click to expand...
Not needing to be listed with a gov agency is pretty nice. Not needing to ask permission, is nice. Doing basically the same thing as an SBR for less is, also, nice.
 
Steve Marshall said:
Conceptually, at least to me, there's not much good to an SBR. House clearing doesn't happen in the real world and an AR or AK pistol would work better anyway. Long distance shooting with an SBR is a silly concept at best. Accuracy and power would be a thinking man's want there. Not that full size AR's or AK's have excess of both. So it boils down to this. Because I can. I'll not claim my firearm choices are better than yours, only that they work for me and "because I can".
Click to expand...

lolwut
 
Wtf ....

the difference between a sbr and ak/ar pistols. Not to much other then you can aim a sbr or pistol with a sig brace better . For a ar a sbr or the sig brace makes for a better gun then a ar pistol with out the brace . You still have to deal with the gay ass buffer tube so why not put it to use .
 
how does one register in Mass an AR action pistol built from an 80% lower, without a detachable magazine? it has no serial, and no otgher designation, since it is custom built.
 
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Neuro said:
how does one register in Mass an AR action pistol built from an 80% lower, without a detachable magazine? it has no serial, and no otgher designation, since it is custom built.
Click to expand...

Doesn't that defeat the entire purpose of building off an 80%? /boggle.
 
I filed the SBR paperwork before the SIG brace was a product, I have no regrets.

DarthRevan said:
Kevin_NH said:
In what way would an AR or AK pistol "work better" than an SBR for house clearing? Isn't an AR or AK pistol just a poor man's SBR? (Thus the popularity of the SIG brace).
Click to expand...
Not needing to be listed with a gov agency is pretty nice. Not needing to ask permission, is nice. Doing basically the same thing as an SBR for less is, also, nice.
Click to expand...
[thinking] The claim wasn't "is a few bucks cheaper" or "doesn't involve Federal paperwork", the claim was "works better". And since the suppressor on the other end is registered, I'm already on their list.

I filed the SBR paperwork before anybody had heard of the SIG brace, and given the price tag and "compromises" of the SB15, I'm happy with my SBR.

Neuro said:
Where do we stand on the new ATF letter that says shouldering the SB-15 turns it into an NFA item?
Click to expand...
As mentioned by edmorseiii, opinion letters only apply to the person who requested the opinion. Until BATFE writes SIG Sauer to retract the original letter, the "new" letter is only a liability for the dude who wrote the question.
 
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Neuro said:
how does one register in Mass an AR action pistol built from an 80% lower, without a detachable magazine? it has no serial, and no otgher designation, since it is custom built.
Click to expand...

You register the transfer of a firearm not the manufacture of the fire arm. No transfer took place , you manufactured a fire arm from raw material. You could say the same when you buy a lower from the FFl. . A stripped ar15 is not a fire arm under mass law. When you buy all the parts and assemble it you never had a transfer of a fire arm under the definitions mgl. Mass law is messed up lol . Most people would of just built a non crippled pistol , shot it , and not talk about it on the Internet and just told fudds it pre ban .

Also before you make a gun from scratch or 80% you should read up on the rules.
If you want to sell it one day you need to add info to the receiver.
 
Steve Marshall said:
Conceptually, at least to me, there's not much good to an SBR. House clearing doesn't happen in the real world and an AR or AK pistol would work better anyway. Long distance shooting with an SBR is a silly concept at best. Accuracy and power would be a thinking man's want there. Not that full size AR's or AK's have excess of both. So it boils down to this. Because I can. I'll not claim my firearm choices are better than yours, only that they work for me and "because I can".
Click to expand...

??

I can hit an IDPA target all day long at 300 with just the irons on my 12", so I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not quite taking head shots at 200 with confidence, but I can plant a full mag in your sternum no problem.

The idea you can't use an SBR long range is laughable. I regularly shoot my M&P 9mm sidearm at 200yds.
 
xtry51 said:
??

I can hit an IDPA target all day long at 300 with just the irons on my 12", so I'm not sure what you mean. I'm not quite taking head shots at 200 with confidence, but I can plant a full mag in your sternum no problem.

The idea you can't use an SBR long range is laughable. I regularly shoot my M&P 9mm sidearm at 200yds.
Click to expand...

Short stiff barrel vs a long barrel that's just as stuff you only lose velocity. If the short barrel is long enough to stabilize the round.
 
I can hit a target with my .22LR at 200 yards all day long and twice on Sunday "if I do my part". BFD. To what end? Power is not there. Same with a SBR or Pistol in .223 or 7.62x39. Why handicap yourself further? It's not like either have excessive power at distance with even full length barrels. You want to be a fanboy and play? Knock yourself out. But don't delude yourself thinking you have the perfect setup. If you're going this route for "house clearing" do it with a pistol version. No silly hand brace. No extra forms to fill out. No added expense. ( Or go with a folder M-1 Carbine or a pistol gripped 12 Gauge or a pistol ). And should you decide to shoot at distance, for whatever reason, use an appropriate sling to stabilize.
 
Steve Marshall said:
I can hit a target with my .22LR at 200 yards all day long and twice on Sunday "if I do my part". BFD. To what end? Power is not there. Same with a SBR or Pistol in .223 or 7.62x39. Why handicap yourself further? It's not like either have excessive power at distance with even full length barrels. You want to be a fanboy and play? Knock yourself out. But don't delude yourself thinking you have the perfect setup. If you're going this route for "house clearing" do it with a pistol version. No silly hand brace. No extra forms to fill out. No added expense. ( Or go with a folder M-1 Carbine or a pistol gripped 12 Gauge or a pistol ). And should you decide to shoot at distance, for whatever reason, use an appropriate sling to stabilize.
Click to expand...

7d5236e3c4349a2f15fa2ab4e867caa1.jpg


Roughly 200 fps difference between a 11.5 and 16 barrel.

A sbr/pistol with a 11.5 barrel your not losing a lot vs a 16" for what most people use them for .
Punching paper at 100 yards or doing different type of action shooting. But you gain having a more compact gun in the same platform .

Pretty sure you could figure out a hand load for a smaller barrel to help the fps you lose.
 
Steve Marshall said:
I can hit a target with my .22LR at 200 yards all day long and twice on Sunday "if I do my part". BFD. To what end? Power is not there. Same with a SBR or Pistol in .223 or 7.62x39. Why handicap yourself further? It's not like either have excessive power at distance with even full length barrels. You want to be a fanboy and play? Knock yourself out. But don't delude yourself thinking you have the perfect setup. If you're going this route for "house clearing" do it with a pistol version. No silly hand brace. No extra forms to fill out. No added expense. ( Or go with a folder M-1 Carbine or a pistol gripped 12 Gauge or a pistol ). And should you decide to shoot at distance, for whatever reason, use an appropriate sling to stabilize.
Click to expand...

I do have the perfect setup and your opinion sucks.
 
Wait, you mean my 7.5 barrel isn't the ultimate in home defense and for blowing up tanks from 2 miles away? But, but, but it's so tactikool it must be the ultimate mall ninja weapon...

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk
 
Steve Marshall said:
I can hit a target with my .22LR at 200 yards all day long and twice on Sunday "if I do my part". BFD. To what end? Power is not there. Same with a SBR or Pistol in .223 or 7.62x39. Why handicap yourself further? It's not like either have excessive power at distance with even full length barrels. You want to be a fanboy and play? Knock yourself out. But don't delude yourself thinking you have the perfect setup. If you're going this route for "house clearing" do it with a pistol version. No silly hand brace. No extra forms to fill out. No added expense. ( Or go with a folder M-1 Carbine or a pistol gripped 12 Gauge or a pistol ). And should you decide to shoot at distance, for whatever reason, use an appropriate sling to stabilize.
Click to expand...

Power is not there? Wtf are you talking about? Does it really matter if the projectile hitting you is going 2400fps or 2600fps? NOPE
 
Steve Marshall said:
I can hit a target with my .22LR at 200 yards all day long and twice on Sunday "if I do my part". BFD. To what end? Power is not there. Same with a SBR or Pistol in .223 or 7.62x39. Why handicap yourself further? It's not like either have excessive power at distance with even full length barrels. You want to be a fanboy and play? Knock yourself out. But don't delude yourself thinking you have the perfect setup. If you're going this route for "house clearing" do it with a pistol version. No silly hand brace. No extra forms to fill out. No added expense. ( Or go with a folder M-1 Carbine or a pistol gripped 12 Gauge or a pistol ). And should you decide to shoot at distance, for whatever reason, use an appropriate sling to stabilize.
Click to expand...

 
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