AR-15, What kind of groups do you get?

[Tackdriver VillenTactical]

For a comparison, what size groups are any of you getting with your ARs (factory ammo and/or reloads) at 50 and 100 yards with a 16 inch barrel?

Thanks, Dave

 

[maee]

I'm interested to know what kind of groups people get with cheap ammo on informal range trips, as well.

 

[1903Collector]

On as really good day I can get 3/4" or less groups at 200 with Federal XM193 ammo. I have a DPMS with a 24' stainless bull barrel topped off with a BSA mil-dot scope. On the 16" barrels I can do better but that's off the bench.

 

[Supermoto]

On as really good day I can get 3/4" or less groups at 200 with Federal XM193 ammo. I have a DPMS with a 24' stainless bull barrel topped off with a BSA mil-dot scope. On the 16" barrels I can do better but that's off the bench.

So you are saying your AR with Nato ammo, shoots as well as Custom Bolt action rifles with match ammo?

 

[maee]

So you are saying your AR with Nato ammo, shoots as well as Custom Bolt action rifles with match ammo?

This is what I never understand about "what are you group?" questions on internet forums. Everybody who answers always gets performance which is ridiculously out of this world. 3/4" groups at 200 yards is 0.375 MOA! I find it very hard to believe that this is a typical group, but I'm not saying you are wrong. Its probably just that us average folks never share.

 

[Prepper]

Well he did say 24' barrel (not 24") so maybe that's how he is able to get groups that impressive.

For an AR15, I'm pretty happy if I keep them all within 4" at 100 yards, if I'm not using a scope (iron sights) and I use a front rest (no bipod on mine yet) or other supported position. I'm still a relative newbie to rifles and am hoping to improve some, but honestly I don't think I'll be able to greatly improve upon that with the current configuration. My second AR that I haven't built yet (I have the parts though) will have a scope and a 24" SS bull barrel; that should help some.

 

[economist]

Out of a standard 16" 1/7 twist chrome-lined barrel with M193 or M855 I get about 3-4 inch groups at 100 yards on a good day using irons or a red dot (CMMG uppers). From an 18" stainless bull barrel Rock River upper, two stage trigger, 1/8 twist, Leupold scope, and Hornady 60gr TAP, I can shoot just under 1" groups at 100 yards. My 16" Larue upper with 1/8 twist does about the same using 77gr Black Hills ammunition and an Aimpoint w/ 3x multiplier. Bottom line, with a very good optic and quality ammunition my ARs with stainless barrels and two-stage triggers will hold 1 MOA if I do my part. My chrome-lined ARs with M193 or M855 are about 3-4 MOA guns for me -- maybe a little better, but not much. Edit to add: I am talking about a reasonable group size of 5-10 shots.

 

[vicpinto]

3"-4" groups at 100 meters with irons on a 16" barrel. This is using QMMO's ammo.

 

[MassMark]

I get .034 groups at 100 yards - then I wake up and the dream is over. Seriously, I haven't measured my groups, but suffice it to say I keep it well within a 4" Shoot-N-See at 100-yards. I dialed in my 14.5" 1/7 with my Tripower on deck and the sucker will ring a gong...I'm not sure what the distance is of the plates at Athol, but I was 30 for 30 and that's good enough for me...The best group I ever shot in my life was with my old Colt National Match HBAR. No fancy free float this - no bull barrel that. I just had a good outing and shot a group under 1" at 100-yards using Black Hills...Never repeated it, but came damned close....

 

[FalArAk]

I can hit soda cans at 100 yards easily,no idea on paper because I just use paper when zeroing.

 

[Exousia]

I got a 2" group at 200 yards with my stock Bushmaster Predator (20" barrel with 12X scope) using bipod on a windy day using the cheapest reloads I could find on the Internet. I figure a MOA is worth keeping.

 

[vellnueve]

I rarely shoot for tight groups. When I do, the best I've done with irons is about 1.5" at 100 with a 20 inch government profile barrel.

 

[M1911]

Back when I was competing (and my eyes worked better), with a 20" barrel and iron sights, I got 2-3" groups with 55gr military surplus. Down to 1-2" with Federal Gold Match 69 gr. This was with NM sights and NM trigger.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I rarely shoot for tight groups. When I do, the best I've done with irons is about 1.5" at 100 with a 20 inch government profile barrel.

I would pay to see a 5-shot 1.5 MOA group with irons.

 

[Hanwei]

 

[Moderator]

Some bold statements being made. I can shoot 1' groups at 100 yds with iron sights.

 

[vellnueve]

I would pay to see a 5-shot 1.5 MOA group with irons.

Trust me, it was probably luck. I don't think I'd be able to match that one five shot group again, not without a lot of practice.

 

[PatMcD]

I would pay to see a 5-shot 1.5 MOA group with irons.

Actually not all that difficult. I think my final ten shots at 600yds in Vermont was a 9-X clean (which means somewhere in that string, there was 5-shot, 1MOA group).

 

[EddieCoyle]

I have no idea what my 5-shot groups look like because I seldom shoot less than 20 shots at a target. I'm happy if I get 20 quick shots into the middle part of a paper plate (6") with irons at 100 yards.

 

[MassMark]

I have no idea what my 5-shot groups look like because I seldom shoot less than 20 shots at a target. I'm happy if I get 20 quick shots into the middle part of a paper plate (6") with irons at 100 yards.

Amen brother...I had in inkling for Service Rifle Matches years ago, but it passed. I shoot more like 100-round groups, so it's hard to tell what's what anyway. If the target looks like swiss cheese, (Alpine Lace) - I'm a camperus happius....

 

[Prepper]

I have no idea what my 5-shot groups look like because I seldom shoot less than 20 shots at a target. I'm happy if I get 20 quick shots into the middle part of a paper plate (6") with irons at 100 yards.

But wouldn't you have to create a 3-5 shot group when you first sight in the gun? (Or did you sight in at 25 or 50 yards and thus would not have such a grouping at 100 yards? Come to think of it, I haven't tried sight in my AR at 100 yards either, which means my groups end up going high. But, good enough for combat -- humans are usually taller than the amount my group is high.)

 

[BoB13]

I have a 20" tricked out Bushmaster w/ heavy barrel that will shoot 1 1/4" groups @ 100' with xm193. 1" or less w/ handloads. Our M4 clones will do less than 2" @ 100' w/ xm193. Not sure w/ handloads on those yet.

Keep in mind that is a 3 shot group and a 9X scope on top of each gun for accuracy testing.

 

[gene]

I am shooting 2.5" groups easily at 100 yds with any one of 3 AR's, Olympic, DPMS, S&W. Throw on the 24" bull barrel upper I can do slightly better about 2" groups and instead of using 4" targets I use the stick on dots that come with the hi viz targets.
All are scoped and all with factory brass ammo. Reloads about the same.

Iron sights and same rifles 3 to 4 inch groups at 100 yds. All were zeroed at 50 yds initially.

 

[bggsp]

When it comes to cheap ammo and my AR, I can't even get a 3 shot group because it hates cheap ammo. I will never buy cheap ammo again!

I'm interested to know what kind of groups people get with cheap ammo on informal range trips, as well.

 

[codenamepaul]

Weaver 4x fixed, with the post reticle(circa 1960 or so) RRA upper w/18"HBAR. Bushmaster lower w/NM 2 stage trigger. Front supported (range box) Ammo was Radway green milsurp.

Open this up to about 3-3.5" at 100 w/irons.

 

[M1911]

I have no idea what my 5-shot groups look like because I seldom shoot less than 20 shots at a target. I'm happy if I get 20 quick shots into the middle part of a paper plate (6") with irons at 100 yards.

My shots were not quick. I was prone, with a leather sling, using a 12:00 hold, shooting glove, very narrow match front sight post, etc.

 

[EddieCoyle]

But wouldn't you have to create a 3-5 shot group when you first sight in the gun? (Or did you sight in at 25 or 50 yards and thus would not have such a grouping at 100 yards? Come to think of it, I haven't tried sight in my AR at 100 yards either, which means my groups end up going high. But, good enough for combat -- humans are usually taller than the amount my group is high.)

Unless the gun has glass, I'm not too fanatical about the way I sight it in. For the last build (DPMS 20" bull barrel upper with iron sights), I stapled up a few paper plates on a big piece of cardboard, fired enough shots so that I could see where they were grouping without walking down to the target, adjusted the sights, and repeated the process. By the time I was done, it was hitting where I was pointing.

 

[matt]

Weaver 4x fixed, with the post reticle(circa 1960 or so) RRA upper w/18"HBAR. Bushmaster lower w/NM 2 stage trigger. Front supported (range box) Ammo was Radway green milsurp.

Open this up to about 3-3.5" at 100 w/irons.

That's rifleman's shooting there!!

I have not shot my AR scoped (next build if it ever gets done). Appleseed has got me shooting <4" at 100yds with irons, a good sling, in prone, 16" 1:9 with 55grn factory loads, when all cylinders are firing. (by the way, that's not just going to the events, but following up with like minded practice).

Sometimes, not all cylinders will fire...

 

[fubar]

In Basic Training 1983 , I could hit a pop up full size torso target at 3 hundred yards with iron sights , pretty consistantly.

With my Bushmaster M4gery ( XM-15 e2s ) I can hit the target frame all day long at 100 yards using crappy Wolf steel cased junk.

At 50 yards with 55 gr Lake City I can keep them in a 4 inch circle.

But , otherwise : I am really cool , honest.

 

[vicpinto]

In Basic Training 1983 , I could hit a pop up full size torso target at 3 hundred yards with iron sights , pretty consistantly.

With my Bushmaster M4gery ( XM-15 e2s ) I can hit the target frame all day long at 100 yards using crappy Wolf steel cased junk.

At 50 yards with 55 gr Lake City I can keep them in a 4 inch circle.

But , otherwise : I am really cool , honest.

Same here. I ended up qualifying with a 36/40. I hit all 300 meter targets - I admit one was a ricochet as it hit the dirt in front of the target and bounced up into the target. It still counted as a hit.