ammunition stored separately

[b79holmes]

How do you all handle this?
Two gun safes?
A gun safe for firearms and something else for ammo?
Do you use a lockable gym bag type bag for ammo?

Right now I am mainly concerned with home storage and transport to the range.
Thanks,
Bill

 

[drgrant]

There is no requirement in MGLs for "separate ammo storage". The only
remotely related requirement is that in many circumstances the gun must be
transported unloaded. (eg, if you have rifles in a secure container in your car, the
rifle must be unloaded. )

Edit: I'm making a WAG here that you're from MA, as you didn't post your location and it's
not visible in your profile. The rules you speak of seem like they're from CA. (where I believe
there is a requirement, at least when guns are transported in a vehicle in CA).

-Mike

 

[M1911]

How do you all handle this? Two gun safes?

I've got two gun safes so that I can store all my guns. Not enough room there for all my ammo. But I do keep a bunch of loaded magazines in there.

The rest of my ammo is (mostly) in a couple steel construction site lock boxes from Home Despot. Of course, I've filled those up too...

 

[b79holmes]

MA

I'm a new gun owner from MA. I was quoting the legal summary I was given from my safety class. Let me check that again.

Also my wifes comfort level fluctuates (we have a 5 year old) so I want everything locked all the times.

I wasn't sure if ammo should be locked like a firearm on the way to the range.

Bill

 

[b79holmes]

recommended storage methods

My mistake (I'd make a lousy attorney) his recommended secure storage method is to have the ammo locked away separately.

So locked in the gun safe is legal.

 

[Lugnut]

Bill,

I'm a NRA Basic Pistol Safety intructor as well. I've found that many of the instructors don't agree or understand many of the current laws. We usually state as disclaimer that they need to check the actual laws themselves or seek council's advice on certain things. Not sure what the NRA's requirements are wrt the MA law coverage but it's a very complex and complicated hair ball topic that could take a day in itself.

Ammo does not need to be stored separate from the guns. As a matter of fact keeping a full magazine in the gun while in a safe is acceptable and often stored that way for various reasons I'm sure you can imagine.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

 

[sksguns]

I sotre my ammo separately because I don't have enough room in my gun safe. Plus I like to keep it organized....

But that's me...

I have a stack-on box for my ammo.

 

[Chris]

MA Fire Marshal Regulations require that ammunition be stored in a locked container.

MA MGL C 140 S 131L defines the requirements for the gun.

"It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user."

There is nothing that says you HAVE to keep the two apart although it is a good idea when obeying the NRA Safety Rule #3 that state:

Always keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

Storing both in the same safe but in different parts would be fine.

HOWEVER. Please note that storing chemicals designed to create high volumes of hot expanding gas inside an enclosed container could very well be viewed at as a bomb. I highly recommend an ammo container that is not sealed. I personally load up the ammo in factory boxes and store them in wire milk crates with lids. Very difficult to get the ammo out between the wire mesh, but very easy for gases to escape.

 

[TY43215]

Bill,

I'm a NRA Basic Pistol Safety intructor as well. I've found that many of the instructors don't agree or understand many of the current laws. We usually state as disclaimer that they need to check the actual laws themselves or seek council's advice on certain things. Not sure what the NRA's requirements are wrt the MA law coverage but it's a very complex and complicated hair ball topic that could take a day in itself.

Ammo does not need to be stored separate from the guns. As a matter of fact keeping a full magazine in the gun while in a safe is acceptable and often stored that way for various reasons I'm sure you can imagine.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

You just went against the "NRA Way".

The confusion is in the NRA training it states the Ammunition is best stored separate from the firearm. It is confusing to students regarding the "NRA WAY" and real life practicality. When teaching I advise the NRA recommendation. If asked for my personal opinion in a class, I still advise that it may go against the NRA training and some decisions need to be left up to the individual.

 

[Lugnut]

You just went against the "NRA Way".

Please don't turn me in! On the other hand I'm like a nazi when I see poor trigger control. I honestly can't believe how many people keep their finger in the trigger guard when cocking the hammer of a revolver.. or when the look at me to ask a question. They often look puzzled when I yell "Off the trigger!". Oh and the "hang fire" procedure to wait 30-60 secs.... how many times have I seen someone load the revolver so that they pull the trigger on an empty chamber.. and just keep pulling the trigger till something goes bang.

 

[M1911]

Oh and the "hang fire" procedure to wait 30-60 secs

Personally, I do a tap-rack-bang drill. I've NEVER seen a hang-fire. Seen plenty of misfires and a couple squibs. Never a hang fire.

 

[TY43215]

Personally, I do a tap-rack-bang drill. I've NEVER seen a hang-fire. Seen plenty of misfires and a couple squibs. Never a hang fire.

Show me that one on a revolver

NRA really needs to update their course. And don't worry Lugnut, I will keep it our secret. (and the other 1871 members here )

 

[Cross-X]

RGS, a gun kept in one's home for personal protection at home may be stored loaded without violating any of NRA's three fundamental gun safety rules.

 

[JimR]

I store my ammo seperately too. It is stored in a magazine, locked into the rifle it belongs to, ready for whatever. Stupid gun laws were made for stupid politicians.

 

[Lugnut]

RGS, a gun kept in one's home for personal protection at home may be stored loaded without violating any of NRA's three fundamental gun safety rules.

Because you're ready to use it.

 

[Weerd Beard]

Personally, I do a tap-rack-bang drill. I've NEVER seen a hang-fire. Seen plenty of misfires and a couple squibs. Never a hang fire.

I bought a case of bad 7.62X54R. Obviously was stored someplace damp. Most of the primers had gone compleatly bad and FTF. Of the few packs that I tried I had 2-3 that had hang-fires. But this was a distinct *Click* of the firing pin striking the primer, then DIRECTLY after the round fired.

wasn't even a second. Just long enugh for me to distinctly hear the firing pin drop and THEN the report.

Arrr

-Weer'd Beard

 

[TY43215]

RGS, a gun kept in one's home for personal protection at home may be stored loaded without violating any of NRA's three fundamental gun safety rules.

I understand that but that was not the original question.

How do you all handle this?
Two gun safes?
A gun safe for firearms and something else for ammo?
Do you use a lockable gym bag type bag for ammo?

Right now I am mainly concerned with home storage and transport to the range.
Thanks,
Bill

Then the answer given was by a NRA Instructor which stated:

Bill,

I'm a NRA Basic Pistol Safety intructor as well. I've found that many of the instructors don't agree or understand many of the current laws. We usually state as disclaimer that they need to check the actual laws themselves or seek council's advice on certain things. Not sure what the NRA's requirements are wrt the MA law coverage but it's a very complex and complicated hair ball topic that could take a day in itself.

Ammo does not need to be stored separate from the guns. As a matter of fact keeping a full magazine in the gun while in a safe is acceptable and often stored that way for various reasons I'm sure you can imagine.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

I stand by my post. In printed material for Home Firearms Safety NRA states in part

As a general rule a gun stored for any purpose other than personal protection should never be loaded in the home.

and further on states

As a general rule, ammunition should be stored separated from a firearm storage area and kept in the manufacturer's original box or a strong container that is clearly marked

As NRA instructors we are supposed to teach the NRA method. I do not agree with a lot of the teachings of the NRA as they are outdated but I teach them as I know you do.

The confusion from the OP was understandable with what I have seen and heard from other instructors. The answer received was directly opposed to what NRA teaches whether you and I agree with the information or not.

By NRA teaching, Firearms used as stated by the OP should be stored unloaded and separated from the ammunition. An ammo can works, A closet works, the original boxes stacked on a shelf works, but in the same location as the firearm is against what we agreed to teach.

And yes, I choose to violate that teaching myself in my own home, but I do not teach that. I would give that answer as a shooter, not as a NRA Instructor.

Regards,

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Ammunition stored in a safe is a bomb if involved in a fire.
Even if a safe is fire rated, they can fail to protect the contents if involved long enough. I've seen it with my own eyes.

If the safe contents is ammunition, you have the equivilant of a huge pipe bomb.

Ammunition should be stored in a container that will fail and release pressure easily if invloved in a fire. No ammunition manufacturing company, wholesale distributor, retail vendor or shipper stores ammunition in a safe.....because it's impractical and even more so, dangerous. Why would you do it at home?

If you keep your guns locked up, there is nothing to shoot the ammo in and it is not subject to any immediate misuse.
All you people who store ammunition in a safe need to do some reading and think about what could happen in the event of a fire. When the house is filling with choking smoke.....its too damned late to be going to your safe and opening the door, you won't even think of it.

If you are goint to store it, an ammo can is about as tight a container as you'd want. Its sheetmetal with a rubber gasket that will fail and produce little if any fragmentation hazard.
A loosely nailed wooden crate with a lock to prevent "little hands" from getting to it is also a good idea. If you need to worry about the adults around messing with it, you have bigger problems and probably should have neither guns nor ammo stored at your location.

 

[1903Collector]

So basically store ammo the same as you would gunpowder? I keep my ammo in a steel job box left over from my construction days, but this makes me think twice. I understand you're point about a potential bomb, I think about this a lot. Say, instead I stored my ammo in a closet and it gets exposed to direct flames, would it go off sooner than if stored in the steel container? There would be a lot of variables in a real fire so who could predict what exactly would happen, good topic..

Walter....

 

[KMaurer]

Ammunition stored in a safe is a bomb if involved in a fire.

Only if you really, really pack the safe with ammunition. Most of the security cabinets that a lot of people call safes have more than enough space around the door for gases to vent safely. The holes that some safes have for lagging the safe to the floor would also serve that purpose.

Ken

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

So basically store ammo the same as you would gunpowder? I keep my ammo in a steel job box left over from my construction days, but this makes me think twice. I understand you're point about a potential bomb, I think about this a lot. Say, instead I stored my ammo in a closet and it gets exposed to direct flames, would it go off sooner than if stored in the steel container? There would be a lot of variables in a real fire so who could predict what exactly would happen, good topic..

Walter....

Going off in a fire is not the problem, its the confinement of the ammunition that presents the hazard.
Storing it anywhere it can freely combust is better than in any tight container....especially a safe. If its stored in a closet and goes off sooner, its still better than confined in a safe or job box where it can produce an explosion. Ammunition is of little danger when freely combusting. It does not produce any significant fragmentation/explosion hazard unconfined. This is why its not packaged, shipped or stored in such confined containers.
Same goes for powders, and even more so....store them where they will vent if ignited. Any rapidly expanding deflagration can turn into a detonation if confined well enough.

 

[drgrant]

There is much debate about the "right" way to store
ammo. IMO a heavy safe is pretty much overkill. I use a plastic rolling
toolbox (one of those huge stanley jobs) for most of my ammo...

Problem is I've been finding it inconvenient. (its a PITA to reach into the
tub to get stuff at the bottom of the tub rather than just having shelves in a
cabinet.)

I've been thinking of going to the locked closet method or building a
locking plywood cabinet with shelves in it.

-Mike

 

[1903Collector]

Going off in a fire is not the problem, its the confinement of the ammunition that presents the hazard.
Storing it anywhere it can freely combust is better than in any tight container....especially a safe. If its stored in a closet and goes off sooner, its still better than confined in a safe or job box where it can produce an explosion. Ammunition is of little danger when freely combusting. It does not produce any significant fragmentation/explosion hazard unconfined. This is why its not packaged, shipped or stored in such confined containers.
Same goes for powders, and even more so....store them where they will vent if ignited. Any rapidly expanding deflagration can turn into a detonation if confined well enough.

Makes sense to me, guess my old job box is out of a job.

 

[codenamepaul]

I store some in the mags-with the firearm. The rest stays in the ammo cans. If the fire ruins my stairs, I can stack them to escape.

 

[JimR]

Only if you really, really pack the safe with ammunition. Most of the security cabinets that a lot of people call safes have more than enough space around the door for gases to vent safely. The holes that some safes have for lagging the safe to the floor would also serve that purpose.

Ken

The Homak's would fit that billing real well. The doors are a loose fit and there are holes on the bottom and back of the unit. I have one on a shelf laying horizontally chucked full of ammo. You guys had me wondering about my possible bomb in a fire until the lag holes were mentioned.

 

[RKG]

The key is pressure containment. Smokeless powder at atmospheric pressure burns rather slowly and is considered a combustible. It is only when confinement allows pressure to spike that it burns at a rate suitable for firearms, and when so confined it presents a real overpressure risk.

 

[ejmboston]

Great thread thanks for the clarification I just got my LTC and was concerned if I needed to have my gun locked up separately from the ammo ! , looks like get a big enough gun safe and keep it all locked up together ! now I just got a figured out my 1st purchase ....

 

[Quiet]

7 years, two months and 19 days!

 

[Horrible]

7 years, two months and 19 days!

Laws haven't changed (yet!). This information is still as good as the day the thread started.

 

[Evadd]

I prefer to see gravedigging over 14,000 threads asking the same question. I give ejmboston kudos for doing a thorough search to find what he needed rather than running straight to "start a new thread". Although at first, I was suspicious when I saw the "great thread, thanks for the info" because that's the generic line that spammers use as their first post before they go bananas with spam, but he gave a bunch of relevant info afterwards.