Alien Carry Permit

[derrick_lui]

Congrats on your move and NH resident permit!

You will not be able to get a MA non-resident LTC-A "ALP".
Just the way the laws are written. Yours will say *Unconcealed* and *Competition only*.

I think that law needs to be changed, at least allowing permanent residents (aka green card holders) in and out of state to receive LTC A ALP.

Thanks Glock.

That means if I wanted to hunt in MA, I wouldnt be able to as well?
The restrictions sounds worse than a "Target/Hunting" license!

 

[jdubois]

That means if I wanted to hunt in MA, I wouldnt be able to as well?

You can hunt in MA as a non-resident without the need for an LTC, you just need a valid hunting license and you're limited to non-large capacity rifles and shotguns (no handguns). The standard hunting laws also apply, further limiting you to certain calibers and gun types based on the current hunting season and time of day.

 

[drgrant]

You will not be able to get a MA non-resident LTC-A "ALP".
Just the way the laws are written. Yours will say *Unconcealed* and *Competition only*.

I disagree. If one qualifies and fills out the forms properly for a nonres, (including a letter laying out the "need" justification) they'll give you an unrestricted license. The state tends to either give out A/None or they reject your application. (At least that's what folks have been talking about recently on another part of the forum. )

I've -never- heard of anyone getting a nonresident LTC-A that was restricted. They basically either give you A/None or nothing.

Whether or not a legal alien can get an MA nonres or not is another story, there are likely a few extra flaming hoops (probably documentation of residency, legal alien status, etc) one has to jump through, if it's possible.

-Mike

 

[jdubois]

I've -never- heard of anyone getting a nonresident LTC-A that was restricted.

Nor have I. That "competition" wording is vague, and I think largely ignored. Though it appears from some discussion lately that the state has started to ask for people to more justification for issuance than they used to.

 

[GlockBy]

I've -never- heard of anyone getting a nonresident LTC-A that was restricted. They basically either give you A/None or nothing.

Nor have I. That "competition" wording is vague, and I think largely ignored.

Well, there is always that first time!

How many non-citizens do you know that have or had in last 3 years MA Non-Res LTC Class A??? That is probably why you never heard of Restricted Non-Res LTC Class A.

They used to give out ALP even to non citizens up to 2005-2006, when new director came in to CHSB and they caught up to the laws. After that even on renewals of LTC Class A ALP for non-citizens they were downgrading the licenses to *Unconcealed...Competition Only*.

And no letter with "need" justification will help either...

 

[Len-2A Training]

I think that GlockBy is right.

MGL Ch 140 S. 131F (1st para) can definitely be interpreted as allowing MSP to restrict NR permits and to only allow NR Alien permits for competition.

As confirmed to me in a conversation with "the authority" on MA firearms law early today, LOTS of things change from year to year, even though no legislation is passed. Different people in the administrative offices "interpret" MGLs differently and suddenly what was OK/legal last year is now not OK/illegal this year. I hope to learn more about these changes tomorrow.

Rep points to GlockBy for nailing this one!

 

[derrick_lui]

Thanks Glockby!

Now the other issue is does going to a gun range and plink some targets with others considered "competition"?

 

[drgrant]

I think that GlockBy is right.

MGL Ch 140 S. 131F (1st para) can definitely be interpreted as allowing MSP to restrict NR permits and to only allow NR Alien permits for competition.

I guess it certainly is possible then, if that restriction (or ability to do so) is
codified in the law... I'd just never run into anyone with a restricted non-res
license- apparently the non citizen thing changes the rules.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I guess it certainly is possible then, if that restriction (or ability to do so) is
codified in the law

The ability to restrict is indeed codified in law, but it is debatable as to whether or not the issuing authority must so restrict non-citizen LTCs. It's also codified as a condition for non-licensees visiting MA in possession of handguns:

Chapter 140: Section 131G Carrying of firearms by non-residents; conditions

Section 131G. Any person who is not a resident of the commonwealth may carry a pistol or revolver in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of taking part in a pistol or revolver competition or attending any meeting or exhibition of any organized group of firearm collectors or for the purpose of hunting; provided, that such person is a resident of the United States and has a permit or license to carry firearms issued under the laws of any state, district or territory thereof which has licensing requirements which prohibit the issuance of permits or licenses to persons who have been convicted of a felony or who have been convicted of the unlawful use, possession or sale of narcotic or harmful drugs; provided, further, that in the case of a person traveling in or through the commonwealth for the purpose of hunting, he has on his person a hunting or sporting license issued by the commonwealth or by the state of his destination. Police officers and other peace officers of any state, territory or jurisdiction within the United States duly authorized to possess firearms by the laws thereof shall, for the purposes of this section, be deemed to have a permit or license to carry firearms as described in this section.

 

[jdubois]

I guess it certainly is possible then, if that restriction (or ability to do so) is
codified in the law... I'd just never run into anyone with a restricted non-res
license- apparently the non citizen thing changes the rules.

Yeah, there's certainly nothing prohibiting restrictions on non-res permits. Like you, I'd just never seen it, but it doesn't even make me pause to hear that they do issue with restrictions.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yeah, there's certainly nothing prohibiting restrictions on non-res permits. Like you, I'd just never seen it, but it doesn't even make me pause to hear that they do issue with restrictions.

From today's seminar . . . we are about to see it!

 

[derrick_lui]

From today's seminar . . . we are about to see it!

I will see what kind of LTC I will get from the CSHB and keep you posted.
place your bets in!

 

[Jared]

You can get an "Alien FID" (that you apply to the Firearms Records Bureau for, not the local PD).

You cannot get an LTC as a resident alien. If you move out of state you can mail order a non-resident LTC as an alien provided you have the MA certificate. This is the result of a gap in the law - the resident licensing section does not let the local licensing agencies issue to non-citizens, but the non-resident licensing provides for non-citizen licenses. I spoke to GOAL about this some time ago and was told there was absolutely no sentiment in the legislature that would be sympathetic to correcting this situation, and that they would be devoting their efforts to areas of the law where they thought the could make a difference (resident alien LTC reform not being one of those areas).

The Natick licensing office borders on green - not bright green, but I know Natick residents who had no problems with getting a LTC-A/unrestricted.

This is easy to fix. This issue has been beaten to death in numerous places over many years. Every place that has had such restrictions has quickly had a federal judge overturn it. Grahm v Richardson is the controlling supreme court case. There is so much out there for equal protection claims. It takes one lawsuit in the first circuit under the 14th amendment. The court will change the law. Green card holders can not be treated any differently from citizens. Kentucky dealt with this. California did in the 1970s. Washington just changed their law in response to a lawsuit that my friend and I started.

Forget the general court. A federal court will fix this. Like I said, this has been dealt with so many times in the past.

As the law currently stands, resident of mass who are green card holders can get an LTC, it just has to go through the state police and its only valid for a year if I recall.

Is jesse Cohen out there???? A few resident aliens could do a class action lawsuit and the chiefs will be forced to issue to green card holders.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As the law currently stands, resident of mass who are green card holders can get an LTC, it just has to go through the state police and its only valid for a year if I recall.

Huh??

This is absolutely incorrect! MA RESIDENT green card holders can ONLY get an FID card.

I wouldn't trust a Fed Court in this jurisdiction to rule this illegal.

Furthermore, it's really an oversight that NR green card holders can get a NR LTC. If brought to the proper authorities attention, I'm sure that they would fix this oversight . . . so that NR green card holders couldn't get a MA NR LTC!!

You have to keep in mind that to get a "fair ruling" you have to get "fair judges" that will rule by law and not by personal prejudices. Good luck with that in this area of the US! [And as we can all plainly see, those in DC want ONLY Activist Judges, not those that rule by the law of the land!]

 

[Jared]

Huh??

This is absolutely incorrect! MA RESIDENT green card holders can ONLY get an FID card.

I wouldn't trust a Fed Court in this jurisdiction to rule this illegal.

Furthermore, it's really an oversight that NR green card holders can get a NR LTC. If brought to the proper authorities attention, I'm sure that they would fix this oversight . . . so that NR green card holders couldn't get a MA NR LTC!!

You have to keep in mind that to get a "fair ruling" you have to get "fair judges" that will rule by law and not by personal prejudices. Good luck with that in this area of the US! [And as we can all plainly see, those in DC want ONLY Activist Judges, not those that rule by the law of the land!]

Take it from someone who actually had experience in getting a state to change their law on this (they changed it after the lawsuit was filed) in previous years the legislature in Washington would not change the law. They voted unanimously in HB1052 to change it.

EVERY federal court that has ever ruled on this issue has ruled in our favor. One lawsuit could change this. I already had Washington changed (with help). Someone else needs to get off their butt and do this for MA.

All I see in MA are people waiting for incorporation or lawyers who talk a big game but only seem to be advertising as they only work on retainer... in other words, they only care about $$$$.

MA's treatment of aliens would stop. It's not that hard, and it's been done before in Michigan, Kentucky, Washington (your all welcome up there), Nevada, Colorado, and California.

 

[06LemansC6]

The state tends to either give out A/None or they reject your application. (At least that's what folks have been talking about recently on another part of the forum. )

I've -never- heard of anyone getting a nonresident LTC-A that was restricted. They basically either give you A/None or nothing.

This was pointed out to me in another thread.

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=906142&postcount=20


My non-res app got kicked back to me and required additional information for A/None. I received it a few weeks after supplying said info.

 

[06LemansC6]

From today's seminar . . . we are about to see it!

Are you saying issuing restrictions on non-res LTC will become the norm?

I at least hope the renewals will continue to be A/None.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Are you saying issuing restrictions on non-res LTC will become the norm?

That's what we were told, that they were going to use the same restrictions that MIRCS has in their system for resident LTCs.

 

[06LemansC6]

That's what we were told, that they were going to use the same restrictions that MIRCS has in their system for resident LTCs.

Based on what qualifications? If they think us non-residents will pay $100/yr. for a restricted LTC they must be sniffing glue.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Based on what qualifications? If they think us non-residents will pay $100/yr. for a restricted LTC they must be sniffing glue.

EOPS runs CHSB, FRB and MA SP. The Secretary of the Exec Office of Public Safety is a POLITICAL APPOINTMENT by the sitting GOVERNOR!

Therefore he takes his marching orders from Patrick. Need I say more?

 

[derrick_lui]

.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Some notation:

SAF Lawsuit Against WA State

Alexander Say v. Adams

It's within your grasp to fix the problem in Mass in regards to the Alien Firearms Licenses there.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

GlockBy...looks like you were right again.
CHSB called me and was nice enough to ask if I wanted them to process my application as it would be "competition only" since the lady didnt want me to feel like I wasted my money. So i said hell with it, just process it...

that really sucks!

 

[aprentic]

Update: I just got my Alien FID in the mail. That was about a 1.5 month turnaround time.

I noticed that my FID is only valid until 12/31/2009. Does anyone know what the procedure is for renewing it?
Will the renewal take as long as the original card?
What happens if I apply for the renewal but I don't get a response by 12/31/2009?

 

[derrick_lui]

Update: I just got my Alien FID in the mail. That was about a 1.5 month turnaround time.

I noticed that my FID is only valid until 12/31/2009. Does anyone know what the procedure is for renewing it?
Will the renewal take as long as the original card?
What happens if I apply for the renewal but I don't get a response by 12/31/2009?

congrats!
1.5 months is considered pretty quick turnaroud.
Unfortunately regardless of when you apply for it, it expires 12/31 of the year just like the non-res permits.

Wait until september and call them to send you a renewal application, it will be the exact same thing except you dont need to do the fingerprint card again, but you will still do the fingerprtin on license.

 

[aprentic]

congrats!
1.5 months is considered pretty quick turnaroud.
Unfortunately regardless of when you apply for it, it expires 12/31 of the year just like the non-res permits.

Wait until september and call them to send you a renewal application, it will be the exact same thing except you dont need to do the fingerprint card again, but you will still do the fingerprtin on license.

So for the renewal I'll still need the license-fingerprint, the letter of good conduct and the character references?
Will I have to retake the safety course or can I just include an other photocopy of the certificate I already have?

 

[derrick_lui]

So for the renewal I'll still need the license-fingerprint, the letter of good conduct and the character references?
Will I have to retake the safety course or can I just include an other photocopy of the certificate I already have?

License fingerprint- Yes
Letter of good conduct- Yes
Character references- Yes, although they wont contact them
No need to retake safety course and no need to photocopy certificate for renewals.

 

[aprentic]

OK. This is probably a weird question.
How do people carry their permits? I don't know about the LTC but the FID is a slip of paper slightly larger than a dollar bill. Can I just fold it up and stick in in my wallet? Or will it start falling apart if I do that.
I assume I have to have it on my person when I'm carrying a gun to and from the range.
Can I just stick it in the carrying case and leave it there?
Anyone know whey they don't just issue regular DL or CC shaped cards?

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

OK. This is probably a weird question.
How do people carry their permits? I don't know about the LTC but the FID is a slip of paper slightly larger than a dollar bill. Can I just fold it up and stick in in my wallet? Or will it start falling apart if I do that.
I assume I have to have it on my person when I'm carrying a gun to and from the range.
Can I just stick it in the carrying case and leave it there?
Anyone know whey they don't just issue regular DL or CC shaped cards?

you must have an old FID. they are just like the LTC's now, CC size.

 

[aprentic]

you must have an old FID. they are just like the LTC's now, CC size.

That's weird. I just got it about a week ago. I wonder why they sent me an old one.