+1000000 for the good guy ***UPDATE*** - Wilbraham, MA

[mikem317]

You know, those antis have no problem with the police or military having weapons. Look how great that worked out for European Jews in the 1930s and 40s.

This is tantamount to advocating and endorsing outright genocide.

Anyway, you'll never see antis saying they'll come and take them because they're a bunch of pussies. They'll hire their police-state thugs to do it on their behalf.

 

[mikem317]

Some of those comments are downright scary!

sba22 on 05/09/09 at 9:46AM

I think the cops should just slap murder charges on him and let the jury decide. Isn't that the way they normally do it?

diddywadiddy on 05/09/09 at 12:17PM

IF THIS WAS A BLACK OR PUERTO RICAN YTHEY WOULD BE IN JAIL

sarcastikbum on 05/09/09 at 1:22PM

This is bunk. That guy should be charged. Obviously he panicked and "shot first and asked questions later" and now a wonderful person is dead.

sarcastikbum on 05/09/09 at 1:24PM

demcon, there was no "attack", that is the whole point. Some people feel threatened walking down the street, does that mean they can open fire?

 

[ephemeratta]

Some of those comments are downright scary!

Man, the comments section gives me a headache. That guy's lucky there's no charges. His jury pool already has him found guilty.

 

[Seamsealer]

Got an update on the radio today. The kid that got shot had a broken wine glass in his hand and was threatening. The owner of the condo shot him in the leg first and told him to stop and he kept on coming. The owner then shot him in the chest and killed him.
The kids parents said he was delusional and on medications for his problems. The Wilbraham police and the DA's office are not filling any charges in the case.
That's what I heard.

 

[livefreeorhere]

Man, the comments section gives me a headache. That guy's lucky there's no charges. His jury pool already has him found guilty.

the guy's lucky he's alive! I wonder if the first shot to the leg was on purpose! I hope he's doing ok because regardless of the situation it's gotta be tough to take a life. I hope he realizes that in protecting himself and his family he did the right thing! My thoughts go out to the victim... (the condo owner).

 

[breslau]

Story in the Springfield paper here:
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/victim_of_fatal_condominium_sh.html

WILBRAHAM - David P. Gatti, the man fatally shot inside a condominium on May 7, had armed himself with a broken wine glass, and was following the homeowner up the stairs when shot dead, according to local and state police.

Gatti, a star football and lacrosse player at Minnechaug Regional High School a decade ago, was "delusional and incoherent" when he entered the homeowner's unit, according to a prepared statement issued Thursday by Hampden District Attorney William M. Bennett.

Gatti suffered from severe depression and schizophrenia and was under a doctor's care, according to Bennett.

The information released by Bennett follows an investigation by Wilbraham police and state police attached to his office.

The investigation was aided with the cooperation of homeowner Ronald Duval and Gatti's parents, Bennett said.

The incident started about 8:15 p.m. when Duval, owner of Unit C20, heard a loud rattling on the front door of his unit and someone saying "let me in, let me in."

Before answering the door, Duval picked up his .380 handgun from his briefcase, which was by the door and placed it in his waistband.

Duval is properly licensed to possess and carrying a firearm, according to Bennett.

When Duval opened the door, Gatti, who lived nearby in Unit C25, stepped inside. When Duval asked him who he was and what he was doing, he felt threatened by Gatti's delusional and incoherent responses.

As Duval backed into his kitchen, he pulled the gun and pointed it at Gatti, demanding that he stop.

Gatti continued toward Duval, picked up a wine glass from the dishwasher, broke it and threatened Duval with its broken stem.

Duval continue to back away and yelled at Gatti that he would shoot him if he didn't leave. Gatti told him to go ahead and shoot.

Duval moved up the stairs and continued to yell at Gatti to stop.

When Gatti moved up the stairs, Duval shot him in the leg. When Gatti did not stop, Duval shot again, striking Gatti in the chest.

Gatti slumped to the floor and died from the wound to his chest.

Duval's wife, who had been upstairs taking a shower when Gatti entered the home, called 911.

Gatti's parents, Peter and Ann Gatti, arrived as investigators were working at the scene. They cooperated with requests for information and consented to a search of his condominium.

Ballistic evidence showed that two shots were fired from the landing of the stairs between the first and second floors. A broken wine glass was found partly in the sink and partly on the floor of the condominium.

Massachusetts law recognizes that deadly force may be used in self-defense in limited circumstances, according to Bennett.

Generally, the law requires that one resorting to deadly force in a claim of self-defense must avail himself of all reasonable means of retreat or escape before using deadly force, according to Bennett.

However, state law provides that a homeowner who reasonably believes that a person unlawfully in his home is about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon the homeowner or another person lawfully in his home, may resort to deadly force without first retreating.

Bennett said he has determined there is no probable cause to support criminal charges and that the case will be closed.

According to Bennett, there is insufficient evidence to conclude the homeowner did not act in conformity with the law.

Gatti's parents told investigators of his depression and schizophrenia, according to Bennett.

"The illness had deleteriously affected his career and quality of life," Bennett said. "Despite repeated efforts to find the right combinations of medication, his illness had deteriorated recently. While the symptoms of his condition had begun to manifest troubling thoughts, he had not exhibited violent behavior."

Gatti recently moved back to the area after working four years in Manhattan to take a job as an insurance agent at his parent's firm, G.W. Morisi Insurance Agency of Springfield.

Duval could not be immediately reached for comment.

 

[Bruce for NH State Rep]

Sounds like textbook self-defense to me, even in the PRoM.

Try to retreat. Try to remove yourself from the dangerous situation. But, as the saying goes: If at first, you don't succeed...

 

[andrew.tt]

hahahHAHAHhahaha

"If I opened the door and someone I didn't know came in and wouldn't leave, I'd call the police".

That sounds reasonable. Maybe what -- the two of you would sit down and have tea and crumpits while you wait for the cops?

Seriously, do people think before they are quoted as saying crap like this? Sometimes I am thoroughly embarrased living in MA.

 

[red87930]

Sounds like textbook self-defense to me, even in the PRoM.

Try to retreat. Try to remove yourself from the dangerous situation. But, as the saying goes: If at first, you don't succeed...

Yes he was trying everything possible. His path of retreat was also pre-determined by the fact that his wife was in the shower up stairs. He had no other choice but to stay in the condo and provide a defensive position on those stairs.

 

[Kid Presentable]

Yes he was trying everything possible. His path of retreat was also pre-determined by the fact that his wife was in the shower up stairs. He had no other choice but to stay in the condo and provide a defensive position on those stairs.

+1 sounds like he gave him all the chances he could have to leave

 

[RI_John]

He should have just shot the broken glass out of his hand!

 

[TomH]

It does suck that this guy was delusional and on meds but the owner still has the right to self defense. With all the facts presented it is very clearcut. I'm sure he will grapple with what he had to do for the rest of his life. But that is ok, it shows he's just human.

 

[dreamer]

From the little we have it sounds like suicide by neighbor, even worse than suicide by cop. Cops sign up for the job of protecting the public, this guy was just trying to mind his own and protect his own.

The guy grabs a glass and breaks it to use as a weapon after the homeowner has a gun on him? I believe it, its just sad that people can be that messed up. I hope that the victim (shooter) here can come to terms with what he was forced by the unstable invader to do.

 

[Palladin]

Generally, the law requires that one resorting to deadly force in a claim of self-defense must avail himself of all reasonable means of retreat or escape before using deadly force, according to Bennett.

The DA's still an A-hole...that's not how the law reads. I'm glad it was clarified in the next sentence.

 

[Half Cocked]

The DA's still an A-hole...that's not how the law reads. I'm glad it was clarified in the next sentence.

Re-read what he said. He was clarifying the difference between general self defense and self defense in your home. (I.e. Castle Doctrine)

Who is the A-hole now....

 

[Zombieoutfitters]

Did you say zombie?

What if the bad guy is a zombie?

Well we've got the solution for that!

It does sound like so many other stories where the fly on the wall will know far more than we ever will.

Too bad someone had to die either way...never should have opened the door. Rule #2...diffuse threat.

 

[Zombieoutfitters]

My how that changes things...

Story in the Springfield paper here:
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/05/victim_of_fatal_condominium_sh.html

Boy oh boy - that guy acted 100% in the letter of the law and in defense of other residents prone in the home. Even tried to retreat upstairs to protect his wife. You can't get a more text book case of what to do...other than maybe not open the door...but that aside if the facts are the facts...he did the exact right thing.

Given that story I wonder if the moron's who said "there shouldn't be loaded weapons in our condo complex" might suddenly change their minds knowing the whole story.

The kind of world we live in where so many people act like effing sheep are exactly the reason I own firearms. You take any liberal, gun-grabbing anti-american "citizen" and put them in the same situation I bet one of their top 3 wishes at that moment would be to HAVE A GUN! Frickin hypocrits! Just had to rant and let it go....sorry.

 

[dwarven1]

Did no one notice the two conflicting statements in the description of the deceased?

Gatti, a star football and lacrosse player more than a decade ago at Minnechaug Regional High School, sold insurance with his parent's agency in Springfield.

Friends of Gatti said Friday the account of the shooting simply does not jibe with the gentle, non-violent man they've known for years.

"He didn't have an aggressive bone in his body," said Samuel O'Neil of Springfield.

How does a "gentle, non-violent man" who doesn't "have an aggressive bone in his body" become "a star football and lacrosse player"? I mean, you HAVE to be aggressive to play those sports, right?

 

[terraformer]

Before answering the door, Duval picked up his .380 handgun from his briefcase, which was by the door and placed it in his waistband.

Hmm... improper storage.
Anyhow, gotta love the ballistics info provided. All those ".40 sucks" and "I don't roll with anything less than 230 grains" folks are cowering in shame right now. One .380 to the chest (ie; good placement) did the kid in and in short order.

ETA: That said, I don't own a .380 nor would I ever carry one if I did (I do want to grab a PPK one of these days for fun) but I really would never want to look down the barrel of one either.

It is also really instructive that all these family and friends who were saying how great this guy was either didn't know or "failed to mention" the schizophrenia and manic depressive mood disorder this kid suffered from. It sucks he did this before they could find the right combination of help and meds for him. I don't wish psychiatric diseases on my worst enemy. To imagine life without proper and full function of one of humanity's greatest gifts is unthinkable to me.

 

[vellnueve]

How does a "gentle, non-violent man" who doesn't "have an aggressive bone in his body" become "a star football and lacrosse player"? I mean, you HAVE to be aggressive to play those sports, right?

Some of them can turn it on and off.

 

[livefreeorhere]

Given that story I wonder if the moron's who said "there shouldn't be loaded weapons in our condo complex" might suddenly change their minds knowing the whole story.

...[sad2]

 

[WILDCATT]

castle law

any one here know what brought about the castle law.and what was the first case??
here in SC it is presumed that if you enter a persons home you are automaticly considered a threat as you dont belong their.same with trespass
if you dont own the property and your on it you can be in deep dodo.

 

[pdm]

any one here know what brought about the castle law.and what was the first case??
here in SC it is presumed that if you enter a persons home you are automaticly considered a threat as you dont belong their.same with trespass
if you dont own the property and your on it you can be in deep dodo.

In MA there's a difference between on the property and in the home. The Castle Doctrine, as far as I'm aware, only applies in the home. I'm sure one of our legal beagles could clarify that.

 

[arlow]

What a bunch of idiots posting in those comments!!!

 

[Seamsealer]

If memory serves me, the DA also said there could be a Civil suit for wrongful death of something similar. This isn't O.J. Simpson we are talking about.
You got to love our state.

 

[vellnueve]

I'm not sure if a civil suit can proceed here if it was ruled self-defense.

 

[terraformer]

I'm not sure if a civil suit can proceed here if it was ruled self-defense.

Two unrelated things. Any civil suit would be judged on it's own merits. And the bar there is much lower. The parents could arguably make the case that the guy should never have opened the door but called the cops instead. Would I buy that argument? Not enough to vote culpable that's for sure.

 

[Half Cocked]

If memory serves me, the DA also said there could be a Civil suit for wrongful death of something similar. This isn't O.J. Simpson we are talking about.
You got to love our state.

Our State has nothing to do with it. A civil suit can always be brought. Ma is no different.

 

[richc]

Criminal case = beyond a reasonable doubt

Civil case = a preponderance of the evidence

Two very different standards of judgment. It is easier to prevail in a civil case. The burden of proof is lower. Thus OJ Simpson was found "not guilty" in the criminal case, but lost he civil case.

And, and has been mentioned on NES before, "not guilty" is not synonymous with "innocent".

Best,

Rich

 

[rg1283]

Gatti suffered from severe depression and schizophrenia and was under a doctor's care, according to Bennett.

Schizophrenia is pretty much like you read about. Skitzophrenics scare the hell out of me. Most are very dangerous when they are off their meds or their meds are not working.

Pretty much they think those delusions are real. The voices to them are real.

Its not uncommon to see a schizophrenic blasting music out of their headphones in an attempt to drown the voices out.

Life may be tough right now with the bad economy and every day life issues. But be thankful you have your mental health.

I try to explain to my friends and family how important it is to lock the door, and not to open the door for anyone you are not expecting or do not know (especially with the Magazine Salesmen, seem to be less of them for some reason this year). Some get it, most just stare at me and drink some Obama Kool aid.