You Could Say I Am a Sniper Now ...

[Woodsloafer]

Don't assume, chronograph the velocities on your loads.

 

[AJK129]

Don't assume, chronograph the velocities on your loads.

Again, posted in post #1

 

[puška m70]

This place takes dupes too seriously

 

[DW357]

We need to page Zappa to this thread. So many dupe posts/memes…

 

[Woodsloafer]

Again, posted in post #1

Are you stalking me, I barely clicked post reply.

 

[AJK129]

This place takes dupes too seriously

I don't really care but its funny when its straight up the first post

 

[AJK129]

Are you stalking me, I barely clicked post.

No im just sitting in this thread dreaming about 6.5CM

 

[MGnoob]

Do you have anything in your pockets? That might be sharp? OK to run your pockets ,it’s a standard question.

 

[Woodsloafer]

No im just sitting in this thread dreaming about 6.5CM

If you buy one you can join the club but then you'll have to learn the secret handshake:

 

[puška m70]

If you buy one you can join the club but then you'll have to learn the secret handshake:

Again, already posted IN THIS thread

 

[paul73]

I see dead memes…

 

[Woodsloafer]

Again, already posted IN THIS thread

I have to repeat everything at work all day so people understand, figured it was the same here.

You on a butt break from Denny's?

 

[AJK129]

We need to page Zappa to this thread. So many dupe posts/memes…

To be fair tallahasee has probably posted all of these multiple times before

 

[Woodsloafer]

That was your first mistake… I love my .308.

Seriously though, this is some interesting stuff:
“The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) recently conducted a study comparing the 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, and .308 Winchester cartridges and they came to a similar conclusion. Compared to the current M118 Special Ball Long Range .308 Winchester load (a 175gr Sierra MatchKing Boattail Hollow Point) currently used by special operations snipers, the 6.5 Creedmoor had less recoil, doubled hit probability at 1,000 meters, had a 33% longer effective range, retained 30% more energy at 1,000 meters, and had 40% less wind drift at 1,000 meters.”

The 260 Remington, which is virtually identical to the 6.5, has been out for decades and they are just figuring this out now???? Maybe they should have compared bullets with similar BCs instead of just one .30 caliber, dumbasses. So bullets with higher BCs carry their energy further, no shit. I honestly cannot believe they would go to the effort of completing these tests and writing it up without looking at other, more current bullet designs for the 308 (as they are for the 6.5/260).

Use something like one of these bullets in the tests and the 308 will be close/competitive in all areas except recoil, and the recoil of a 308 is nothing. Plus, as far as hunting, the advantages at the ranges game are taking are non-existent.

First Look: New Super-High-BC Flat Line Bullets

Over the past couple months, I’ve been working with a lot of scary smart engineers on my muzzle brak...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Broc]

Posting funny memes is fine. Duping them on purpose is just stupid.

@Woodsloafer

 

[Tallahassee]

intended use:

Hunting - Wyoming - so anywhere from 100 to 400 yards, maybe 500. But I will try to not go past 350-400 unless I am very comfortable reading the wind. I don't have a ton of practice there.

For range fun .. up to 600 yards.

Budget:
- no budget. I want to buy something good, but also don't need a $1,500 scope. I need ot to be light, clear and preferably have an illuminated reticle in MOA.

Platform:
Bolt action.

My eyes are great so I prefer to not use a ton of magnification, I was thinking 4x for the long range, but it might be too much if I engage a target at 100 yards. So maybe a 2x or 3x?

 

[Tallahassee]

 

[Woodsloafer]

Posting funny memes is fine. Duping them on purpose is just stupid.

@Woodsloafer

Kinda like saying the 40 sucks and making fun of the owners over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over......................................................................................................................

(No, I do not have one.)

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Use something like one of these bullets in the tests and the 308 will win in all areas except recoil, and the recoil of a 308 is nothing.

Well, recoil and the minor ability to fit in a standard magazine

There are a number of companies doing pretty amazing things with solid bullets in many calibers. The idea that these level the playing field in the conversation of .308 and 6.5 / .260 is really silly. If you are single loading your bolt gun and already have a .308 setup, cool, these are pretty amazing. For any other platform or application it would be hard to argue this makes much sense.

 

[Boghog1]

With all the smart ass trash talk here I really wonder if there is anyone here who actually tried a good modern ultralight (under 6lbs) hunting rifle, like that savage 110 k2 - chambered in 308 and then in 6.5cm side by side.

They are selling best in an 6.5cm for a reason, that’s all. Even if reason eludes you - it does not mean there isn’t one.

Just because something sells more of doesn't make it the best, there can be hype generated sales. I mean I bet .22lr outsells 6.5 in number of sales doesn't mean a ruger 10/22 is better than the 6.5cm

 

[mu2bdriver]

Sorry you were forced to waste your time reading this thread

As you point out, you really can't be a casual forum viewer to see all the humor in this thread.

 

[jkelly1229]

That was your first mistake… I love my .308.

Seriously though, this is some interesting stuff:
“The United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) recently conducted a study comparing the 6.5 Creedmoor, .260 Remington, and .308 Winchester cartridges and they came to a similar conclusion. Compared to the current M118 Special Ball Long Range .308 Winchester load (a 175gr Sierra MatchKing Boattail Hollow Point) currently used by special operations snipers, the 6.5 Creedmoor had less recoil, doubled hit probability at 1,000 meters, had a 33% longer effective range, retained 30% more energy at 1,000 meters, and had 40% less wind drift at 1,000 meters.”

Wasnt it so effective they switched to 300 win mag

 

[jkelly1229]

I'm sticking with .308 - for my uses it's more than enough. Can't see a practical scenario where I want 6.5 creedmore over my AR and AR-10.

Why not another ar10 in 6.5 cuz merica

 

[Woodsloafer]

Well, recoil and the minor ability to fit in a standard magazine

There are a number of companies doing pretty amazing things with solid bullets in many calibers. The idea that these level the playing field in the conversation of .308 and 6.5 / .260 is really silly. If you are single loading your bolt gun and already have a .308 setup, cool, these are pretty amazing. For any other platform or application it would be hard to argue this makes much sense.

I did not look at the loaded lengths so you are correct. However, anyone that thinks that these advantages (yes, the 6.5 as well as 7mm/.284 have higher BC bullets than .30 due to better bore to weight ratios) matter at hunting distances is mistaken. A 6.5 Creedmoor does not kill any better at ranges game are taken than a .308. If you like the newest thing and prefer the efficiency of the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC (which is better IMO), etc. that is great, but don't think it is going to allow you to kill things at longer ranges than a .308. The 6.5 has always had bullets with great BCs but it was not until Hornady came out with a catchy name for a cartridge in this caliber did everyone jump on board (the virtually identical 260 Remington, a great cartridge as well, has been around for decades). I personally believe the 7mm PRC may be the best of the bunch (for longer ranges) due to bullets with higher BCs as well as heavier weights for larger game, e.g., moose, elk, although for deer it may not hold any advantages. At NH, Maine, etc. distances, none of these really have any advantages over each other and the higher velocity rounds may actually have a disadvantage at shorter distances due to more meat damage for shots that may not be perfect.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I did not look at the loaded lengths so you are correct. However, anyone that thinks that these advantages (yes, the 6.5 as well as 7mm/.284 have higher BC bullets than .30 due to better bore to weight ratios) matter at hunting distances is mistaken. A 6.5 Creedmoor does not kill any better at ranges game are taken than a .308. If you like the newest thing and prefer the efficiency of the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC (which is better IMO), etc. that is great, but don't think it is going to allow you to kill things at longer ranges than a .308. The 6.5 has always had bullets with great BCs but it was not until Hornady came out with a catchy name for a cartridge in this caliber did everyone jump on board (the virtually identical 260 Remington, a great cartridge as well, has been around for decades). I personally believe the 7mm PRC may be the best of the bunch (for longer ranges) due to bullets with higher BCs as well as heavier weights for larger game, e.g., moose, elk, although for deer it may not hold any advantages. At NH, Maine, etc. distances, none of these really have any advantages over each other and the higher velocity rounds may actually have a disadvantage at shorter distances due to more meat damage for shots that may not be perfect.

To be honest I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to argue…

First off, I’m not a 6.5 fanboi, I prefer 6mm. I shoot paper and steel and find it superior for that reason. I personally think 6mm, 6.5, and .308 all have a place and like them all. For a shooter looking for 1 caliber for multi purpose, 6.5 is really hard to argue with.

Second, I don’t hunt and have never looked for a caliber for that purpose. When considering what would be important to me in a caliber for hunting it would be 1. What are the calibers terminal ballistics and do they align with the game hunted. 2. What are the ballistics and ease / likelihood I will be able to put a round on target successfully.

Hell in New England I bet you could hunt just fine with .45-70 and none of the .30, 6.5,6mm debate matters. But there is an advantage to 6.5 or similar offerings over .30 cal in terms of ballistics to getting accurate, predictable, and easy to calculate for rounds on target at distance.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

The 260 Remington, which is virtually identical to the 6.5, has been out for decades and they are just figuring this out now???? Maybe they should have compared bullets with similar BCs instead of just one .30 caliber, dumbasses. So bullets with higher BCs carry their energy further, no shit. I honestly cannot believe they would go to the effort of completing these tests and writing it up without looking at other, more current bullet designs for the 308 (as they are for the 6.5/260).

In fact, in 2018 USSOCOM did a final round comparing the .260 to the 6.5 CM. 6.5 CM still won. So who does that make the dumbass? Quoting:

"What they found is that both weapons performed just as well and were just as reliable in either caliber" and "The prevailing attitude is that there was more room with the 6.5 CM to further develop projectiles and loads."

USSOCOM Adopts 6.5 Creedmoor | Soldier Systems Daily

Last Spring, USSOCOM undertook a study of 6.5 family cartridges to determine a path forward for Precision Intermediate Caliber Ammunition. Over the last yea ...

soldiersystems.net

The peacetime military acquisition process being what it is, naturally they haven't awarded the contract yet. There will be two versions, currently designated MRGG-A and MRGG-S.

 

[Woodsloafer]

In fact, in 2018 USSOCOM did a final round comparing the .260 to the 6.5 CM. 6.5 CM still won. So who does that make the dumbass? Quoting:

"What they found is that both weapons performed just as well and were just as reliable in either caliber" and "The prevailing attitude is that there was more room with the 6.5 CM to further develop projectiles and loads."

USSOCOM Adopts 6.5 Creedmoor | Soldier Systems Daily

Last Spring, USSOCOM undertook a study of 6.5 family cartridges to determine a path forward for Precision Intermediate Caliber Ammunition. Over the last yea ...

soldiersystems.net

The peacetime military acquisition process being what it is, naturally they haven't awarded the contract yet. There will be two versions, currently designated MRGG-A and MRGG-S.

You're kidding right, the 6.5x55 was introduced in 1894 so it only took our military 120+ years to realize that 6.5 bullets have higher BCs (due to better bore/bullet weight ratios) than 30 caliber bullets and there is lesser recoil with these smaller diameter calibers (versus the 30-06/308). Again, 120+ years to complete this comparison/testing and come to this conclusion like it is some epiphany.

6.5×55mm Swedish - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Woodsloafer]

To be honest I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to argue…

First off, I’m not a 6.5 fanboi, I prefer 6mm. I shoot paper and steel and find it superior for that reason. I personally think 6mm, 6.5, and .308 all have a place and like them all. For a shooter looking for 1 caliber for multi purpose, 6.5 is really hard to argue with.

Second, I don’t hunt and have never looked for a caliber for that purpose. When considering what would be important to me in a caliber for hunting it would be 1. What are the calibers terminal ballistics and do they align with the game hunted. 2. What are the ballistics and ease / likelihood I will be able to put a round on target successfully.

Hell in New England I bet you could hunt just fine with .45-70 and none of the .30, 6.5,6mm debate matters. But there is an advantage to 6.5 or similar offerings over .30 cal in terms of ballistics to getting accurate, predictable, and easy to calculate for rounds on target at distance.

I buy rifles for killing things, not punching paper, so we are different there.

My argument is that under 400 yards a 6.5 has no magical advantage over other similar rounds for hunting. A couple inches of trajectory difference (between something like a 6.5 and 308) doesn't matter at 300-400 yards (which is a far shot, IMO, even out west, I personally would not be comfortable with anything over 300 and would not take the shot), you just need to intimately know the trajectory of the load/round you are shooting (and you need to chronograph to confirm the velocities you are getting from your respective gun).

You are right about New England, a large diameter bullet (.35 and up) has it advantages at close ranges, that is why something like a 44 mag is perfectly fine for hunting around here.

 

[AJK129]

I buy rifles for killing things, not punching paper, so we are different there.

My argument is that under 400 yards a 6.5 has no magical advantage over other similar rounds for hunting. A couple inches of trajectory difference (between something like a 6.5 and 308) doesn't matter at 300-400 yards (which is a far shot, IMO, even out west, I personally would not be comfortable with anything over 300 and would not take the shot), you just need to intimately know the trajectory of the load/round you are shooting (and you need to chronograph to confirm the velocities you are getting from your respective gun).

You are right about New England, a large diameter bullet (.35 and up) has it advantages at close ranges, that is why something like a 44 mag is perfectly fine for hunting around here.

6.5CM still takes a deer just fine. The retired game warden who taught me how to butcher a deer said hed never seen a bullet do that damage before

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I buy rifles for killing things, not punching paper, so we are different there.

My argument is that under 400 yards a 6.5 has no magical advantage over other similar rounds for hunting. A couple inches of trajectory difference (between something like a 6.5 and 308) doesn't matter at 300-400 yards (which is a far shot, IMO, even out west, I personally would not be comfortable with anything over 300 and would not take the shot), you just need to intimately know the trajectory of the load/round you are shooting (and you need to chronograph to confirm the velocities you are getting from your respective gun).

You are right about New England, a large diameter bullet (.35 and up) has it advantages at close ranges, that is why something like a 44 mag is perfectly fine for hunting around here.

No disagreement in magical advantages in 300-400 yards. I would say reduction in recoil is not insignificant regardless of tolerance. Personally, the only reasons to choose .308 is barrel life and availability of commercial ammo. 6.5 / 6mm chew through barrels pretty quick.

I'll stand by that if you are looking for 1 caliber to do multiple things, 6.5 is hard to argue against and really the reason it has become so popular.