Wow, this ex-cop has really gone crazy

[AntiHippie]

"like we talked about."

"seven burners deployed and we have a fire."

what the actual **** happened here?

Apparently, they resolved the situation by burning down a cabin with who is presumed to be (like, 99.9999999999% sure to be) Dorner barricaded inside. Some stories say he tried to come outside and was "chased" (?shot at?) back inside.

So, yeah, looks like they pretty much summarily executed him. Dude probably DID deserve to die, but that trial and conviction part really should have come first. That shit's important.

 

[ericcif]

So if someone commits murder due process doesn't apply? Or does it only apply when a "protected class," like a cop or cops daughter is killed?

You forgot to add that this person is in a shootout with police. Love to see you go in under fire and make the arrest. Think you missed the gunfight 101 class.

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[ericcif]

So I take it you got wood when we found out drones may be used to kill US citizens? You're just fapping away right now aren't you??

I must be dumb because I have no idea how this relates to a guy getting killed in a shootout with police. guessing your saying that the police should only fire warning shots in the air and not being trying to kill the person trying to kill them?

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[Lamina]

I must be dumb because I have no idea how this relates to a guy getting killed in a shootout with police. guessing your saying that the police should only fire warning shots in the air and not being trying to kill the person trying to kill them?

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lapd indicated they were going to use drones to find this dude.

 

[Apathesis]

Are they even aware of it?

Dude, I'm probably blocked by most people, anyway; my account is basically a news ticker. I pointed out on my cousin's page how Obama has extended all of the egregious shit Bush and Congress started years ago, and her response was basically, "I'm aware of all of that, but I don't want women to lose all their protections they won over the past 40 years." Really? Your vagina is more important than freedom, the economy, and our safety? Jesus Christ on a crutch...

 

[soloman02]

You forgot to add that this person is in a shootout with police. Love to see you go in under fire and make the arrest. Think you missed the gunfight 101 class.

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If you notice, I was responding to OIFer's claim that they should have dropped a JDAM (or hellfire from drone) instead of drawing him out. If he resisted and shot back after their attempt to make the arrest and as a result they shot him, fine but that is not what happened and not what was being called for. What was being called for was to stand back and just drop a JDAM (no chance to surrender) on him. And as it played out, according to the audio that we have seen, it looks like they never intended on arresting him anyway and decided to just incinerate him Waco style.

 

[fivepak]

Respectfully, you won't last here long. It's not the varying opinion, it's the act that you show you have no respect for Constitutional rights, as you said "He had it coming to him". As long as you say it's ok, then it must be.

As OIFer already stated, he was still in the act of committing violent crime. He had several opportunities to surrender. He did not.

 

[fivepak]

Maybe I have it all wrong?

Dorner gets fired from LAPD after numerous suspensions ( fighting other officers, negligent discharge of firearm, harrassing another officer, and finally the kicking incident ) He loses the appeal to get his job back.

He then responds by killing a cop, and the child and her fiance of the attorney that WAS ON HIS SIDE trying to help him get his job back.

Dorner holds people hostage while hiding in their home from the police.

Dorner opens fire on several Game Wardens on the road near that cabin. Later shoots and kills a deputy and wounds another deputy.

So tell me, if the police shouldnt have used lethal force to stop Dorner from killing and kidnapping the citizens of this country, - WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM LOSING HIS JOB - could you fine fellows please describe for me what the more appropriate response should have been?

They hate cops, all cops. There's no fixing it.

 

[fivepak]

So I take it you got wood when we found out drones may be used to kill US citizens? You're just fapping away right now aren't you??

That post was a bit uncalled for. The cops took down a violent fugitive that wasstill in the act of committing more violence. How does that relate to drone attacks on U.S. citizens? Not everyone is a rabid cop hater.

 

[fivepak]

They can use lethal force to protect a life, or defend their own life. They cannot use lethal force to assassinate someone. Dorner was wounded by the sniper, and holed up alone in the cabin. They had no more reason to attempt to kill him. They could have waited him out, or gassed him and went in, or any number of other tactics. Instead, they burned the cabin down with him in it, alive.

You must realize that you are advocating the death penalty absent trial and conviction by jury. You are advocating not just that Dorner has no 5th Amendment rights because of what the government SAYS, but you are advocating that NONE of us have 5th Amendment rights, so LONG as the government says.

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

From what I've read there's no confirmation he was actually hit by police fire let alone a sniper. It was reported he was shooting from the house. If they were to believe his claim of being a proficient marksman by the coin he sent the media with the message 1 MOA then he was a clear and immediate danger.

 

[fivepak]

You forgot to add that this person is in a shootout with police. Love to see you go in under fire and make the arrest. Think you missed the gunfight 101 class.

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Oh but you forget that most of these cop haters have extensive Airsoft combat time. Oh the horror!!!

- - - Updated - - -

lapd indicated they were going to use drones to find this dude.

Not all drones have Hellfire missiles. Some actually have only cameras.

 

[Laderbuilt]

Watched the news clip posted in the thread. All I could think of was why does anyone NEED a 30round clip. If they had only had five rounders I'm sure it would have been just as good right?
(Sarcasm) were needed

 

[fivepak]

it looks like they never intended on arresting him anyway and decided to just incinerate him Waco style.

The audio does record some officers emotionally charged and happy to see the house burning. We don't know if that was the intent of the officer(s) that actually fired the tear gas into the house. The officer that was killed was a local and his father was also a cop. It's very possible that they knew the deceased very well and were emotional about it. The comments were unproffesional and inappropriate, but still not evidence of the intent of those deploying the tear gass.

 

[GunGrey]

The audio does record some officers emotionally charged and happy to see the house burning. We don't know if that was the intent of the officer(s) that actually fired the tear gas into the house. The officer that was killed was a local and his father was also a cop. It's very possible that they knew the deceased very well and were emotional about it. The comments were unproffesional and inappropriate, but still not evidence of the intent of those deploying the tear gass.

do you have a rational for the shooting of innocents by the LAPD during the man hunt? you seem to have a rational for all of the other shit they did.

 

[fivepak]

do you have a rational for the shooting of innocents by the LAPD during the man hunt? you seem to have a rational for all of the other shit they did.

I'm focusing on what happened at the cabin. One incident at a time, ok? Though, if you've read past posts of mine on this whole Dorner drama you see that I do condemn the way the LAPD has acted in the manhunt. The officers that opened up on those pickups should be prosecuted. It a case by case basis thing with me. I'm not painting all cops with the same broad brush. If I were to condemn all cops because of the actions of some, then I may as well condemn all gun owners for the actions of people like Dorner and Lanza.

 

[montemuscle1970]

That post was a bit uncalled for. The cops took down a violent fugitive that wasstill in the act of committing more violence. How does that relate to drone attacks on U.S. citizens? Not everyone is a rabid cop hater.

It relates because it was in response to OIFer saying he didn't care at all how they apprehended a criminal, up to and including JDAM strikes on a house that belonged to someone else! Being as they announced they were using drones to find him, and the reports that its legal to execute a US citizen using drones without so much as a wiggle of judges nose, I'm extremely opposed to all of it. And I found his post to be uncalled for.

And I don't expect the cops to stand by and just let a criminal endanger them or anyone else. But I also don't expect them to take it upon themselves to engage a highly dangerous criminal like they're a pack of ****ing cowboys. Seriously, fish and wildlife is engaging him while he's trapped in a cabin? Hold the perimeter, keep him suppressed, and wait for SWAT. This is specifically what SWAT was designed for! And the LAPD was pretty much who it was designed for. Philadelphia was technically the first to have a SWAT team, but LA is what made SWAT famous. So, you've got a hundred ****ing cops out there playing billy badass, lobbing god only knows how many rounds down range, who knows if they're aware of any civilians in the area or even in the cabin with Dorner. Rather than send two SWAT elements in to do what they do, or using the APC to breach the wall, the cops decide to take it upon themselves, as if they're a designated hit squad, to burn the ****ing house down.

You want to use bullets, flashbangs, smoke canisters, concussion grenades, tear gas...go for it.

You want non-specialized, run of the mill law enforcement officers, who spend their days busting people for broken taillights and unregistered vehicles (or protect the rights of wildlife!) to burn someone alive or use a missile to level the residence? Absolutely ****ing NOT OK!

Whether you agree with Dorner, or not, want him dead or alive, or anywhere else on the spectrum, LAW ENFORCEMENT needs to uphold and practice what they're named for. You can't tell me the all of those cops versus one guy was too much for them to handle appropriately. This whole ordeal, every turn they made was the wrong way. Statistically, they should have done something right.

Unless they didn't want to.

 

[namedpipes]

As OIFer already stated, he was still in the act of committing violent crime. He had several opportunities to surrender. He did not.

One man holed up in a cabin for several hours after the initial contact.

It doesn't justify burning him out.

It wasn't necessary. It may have felt satisfying to the police but this could have and should have played out in the courts.

This execution wasn't any different from Dorners earlier crimes.


Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.

 

[fivepak]

montemuscle1970, I didn't realize you had ALL the facts. My bad.

So you know that the cops didn't evacuate nearby homes? You know what kind of training the LEOIC has had? You know Dorner was no longer a danger to the officers outside? Do you think he had to poke his head out to shoot at officers? In a darkend room a smart man stands well back from a window, pie though and hope to get a shot at any exposed officer. If the house is being covered I'd assume cops are actually looking at it. Dorner set the conditions of what ultimately would happen to him.

Im giving the poster that made the JDAM remark benifit of the doubt that he was merely exaggerating with the JDAM remark. I understood what he meant without taking him literally.

Do you know the criteria for using a drone strike on Americans overseas? Don't believe the hype on Facebook. There is criteria that has to be met. Though, I'm stick against such sticks unless the American is actively engaging other Americans or allies.

 

[fivepak]

One man holed up in a cabin for several hours after the initial contact.

It doesn't justify burning him out.

It wasn't necessary. It may have felt satisfying to the police but this could have and should have played out in the courts.

This execution wasn't any different from Dorners earlier crimes.


Sent from my chimney using smoke signals.

Do you have proof the house was set fire intentionally? When it started burning I agree that some officers were glad that it did. In the same situation you probably would be too.

To say this is no different than the crimes Dorner committed is a bit of a stretch.

I can see that this event is going to breed some more Tim McVieghs.

 

[namedpipes]

Do you have proof the house was set fire intentionally? When it started burning I agree that some officers were glad that it did. In the same situation you probably would be too.

To say this is no different than the crimes Dorner committed is a bit of a stretch.

Yes. I would have been glad to see my tormentor gone and I have no issue with the (at least those directly affected by him) being glad to see him go.

Of course I'm not a cop. I'm not charged with upholding the law.

Do you not see that a suspect on the move, taking out targets of opportunity is different from a suspect holed up in a building with controllable access? Given the reports of police milling around the grounds I don't think they were in fear that Dorner was sniping them from the cabin. I tend to think with the number of scopes that must have been on that cabin that had he shown so much as a trigger finger it would have been blown off.

He was holed up. All they had to do was wait. Either he kills himself, surrenders or tries to storm prepared positions and dies. ALL of those would have been better outcomes for the police involved.

I can see that this event is going to breed some more Tim McVieghs.

If you got that from MY post you are deluded. Tim McVeigh (and Dorner) were so far around the bend they couldn't see the bend from where they were at.

 

[not new guy]

Do you have proof the house was set fire intentionally? When it started burning I agree that some officers were glad that it did. In the same situation you probably would be too.

To say this is no different than the crimes Dorner committed is a bit of a stretch.

I can see that this event is going to breed some more Tim McVieghs.

The audio released has the cops agreeing to burn it. What more do you want?

 

[dragonballzz]

The audio released has the cops agreeing to burn it. What more do you want?

Do you have a link? I've read the transcript but the audio wasnt working.

 

[SamH]

Audio catches cops shouting "Burn this motherf*cker!" during Dorner siege | The Raw Story

 

[fivepak]

Waiting was one option, but why? Give the scumbag the option to surrender and have his due process. If he refuses then what happens next is on him.

I didn't say you specifically would pull a Tim McVeigh move. Of the cop haters on this site I doubt many of them has what it takes to actually stand up for anything if it meant really putting their ass on the line. Not that I think this or anything justifies what Tim McVeigh did.

 

[namedpipes]

Of the cop haters on this site I doubt many of them has what it takes to actually stand up for anything if it meant really putting their ass on the line. Not that I think this or anything justifies what Tim McVeigh did.

There certainly are some cop haters on this site. I'm not one of them.

What I despise is abuse of authority. Not authority.

My kids were raised to know that the people that put their lives on the line (whether police, firemen, rescue workers...) are heroes and deserve respect.

Until they don't deserve respect due to their own actions. They're human beings and can make mistakes.

 

[fivepak]

There certainly are some cop haters on this site. I'm not one of them.

What I despise is abuse of authority. Not authority.

My kids were raised to know that the people that put their lives on the line (whether police, firemen, rescue workers...) are heroes and deserve respect.

Until they don't deserve respect due to their own actions. They're human beings and can make mistakes.

I think for the most part we're on the same page.

 

[not new guy]

So all cops are heroes until proven otherwise?

What could go wrong with that mantra?

 

[namedpipes]

[sigh]

Look, promise to run into a burning building to save my kid and I'll call YOU a hero too.

Give me shit over going 5mph over while you are cruising at 25mph over and you've got clay feet.

Break down the door of yet another wrong address, shoot their dog and you just may be a JB thug.

Not all cops are evil. Not all are angels, either.

If WE expect to be judged by OUR individual actions then certainly they should get the same favor.

 

[not new guy]

[sigh]

Look, promise to run into a burning building to save my kid and I'll call YOU a hero too.

Give me shit over going 5mph over while you are cruising at 25mph over and you've got clay feet.

Break down the door of yet another wrong address, shoot their dog and you just may be a JB thug.

Not all cops are evil. Not all are angels, either.

If WE expect to be judged by OUR individual actions then certainly they should get the same favor.

This sort of "all first responders are automatically heroes" bullshit is nothing more than another shitty, individual liberty crushing byproduct of 9/11, right alongside the PATRIOT Act. It did not exist prior as it does now. What do you think enables the untouchable attitude and the rampant abuses of power that naturally go with it? The blurred line between the police and military? The situation where cops can literally do no wrong in the eyes of the law and of the mouth breathing public?

 

[Tyke]

Waiting was one option, but why? Give the scumbag the option to surrender and have his due process. If he refuses then what happens next is on him.

I didn't say you specifically would pull a Tim McVeigh move. Of the cop haters on this site I doubt many of them has what it takes to actually stand up for anything if it meant really putting their ass on the line. Not that I think this or anything justifies what Tim McVeigh did.

They had no intentions of letting him surrender. They opened fire on civilians and attempted to murder them. You really think they were going to let him surrender?