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Wow, this ex-cop has really gone crazy

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OIFer said:
PS, I frankly dont care if they threw flashbangs, incendiary grenades, or hit the cabin with a friggon JDAM, that guy had it coming to him.
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Respectfully, you won't last here long. It's not the varying opinion, it's the act that you show you have no respect for Constitutional rights, as you said "He had it coming to him". As long as you say it's ok, then it must be.
 
Shadows said:
Respectfully, you won't last here long. It's not the varying opinion, it's the act that you show you have no respect for Constitutional rights, as you said "He had it coming to him". As long as you say it's ok, then it must be.
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I'd trade you 300 rounds of 9mil for what's in your avatar.
 
Maybe I have it all wrong?

Dorner gets fired from LAPD after numerous suspensions ( fighting other officers, negligent discharge of firearm, harrassing another officer, and finally the kicking incident ) He loses the appeal to get his job back.

He then responds by killing a cop, and the child and her fiance of the attorney that WAS ON HIS SIDE trying to help him get his job back.

Dorner holds people hostage while hiding in their home from the police.

Dorner opens fire on several Game Wardens on the road near that cabin. Later shoots and kills a deputy and wounds another deputy.

So tell me, if the police shouldnt have used lethal force to stop Dorner from killing and kidnapping the citizens of this country, - WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM LOSING HIS JOB - could you fine fellows please describe for me what the more appropriate response should have been?
 
Neuro said:
there are 2 classes of tactical grenades - hot and cold. The hot one's use incineration to distribute the chemicals, the cold ones do not. The hot grenades are known to cause fires, and are sometimes used by SWAT to do so.

These are different from flash bangs which use the incineration of magnesium powder and other materials to create a blinding flash.
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I guess the question remains, do they actively refer to/use the nickname "burners" to describe a flash bangs, tear gas, stun on a Op channel? Which was then repeated by dispatch in the same manner? Since there's no consistent understanding of what "burner" means, either 1) its a department term to describe the aforementioned items or 2) these were incendiary cans...

Interesting article that came up when I was Google-Fu'ing the internet for incendiary and burners... FBI now admits to firing incendiary tear gas canisters | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

Maybe it was a incendiary tear gas canisters... choke the person out, then burn em'.
 
OIFer said:
Maybe I have it all wrong?

So tell me, if the police shouldnt have used lethal force to stop Dorner from killing and kidnapping the citizens of this country, - WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM LOSING HIS JOB - could you fine fellows please describe for me what the more appropriate response should have been?
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They can use lethal force to protect a life, or defend their own life. They cannot use lethal force to assassinate someone. Dorner was wounded by the sniper, and holed up alone in the cabin. They had no more reason to attempt to kill him. They could have waited him out, or gassed him and went in, or any number of other tactics. Instead, they burned the cabin down with him in it, alive.

You must realize that you are advocating the death penalty absent trial and conviction by jury. You are advocating not just that Dorner has no 5th Amendment rights because of what the government SAYS, but you are advocating that NONE of us have 5th Amendment rights, so LONG as the government says.

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."
 
There is a lot of confusion here between administration of justice and the role of police. Assuming the reported facts actually are true, it is reasonable to conclude that it would be just to kill Dorner. But in our society (at least in theory) we don't just tell law enforcement to kill a guy. We have a process that takes into account the rights of the accused and the dangers of a government operating against any citizen unilaterally and in secret.

The role of police is to serve that process, and they are not doing that by killing suspects unnecessarily. I wasn't there and I don't know the situation. (This is why, by the way, police should video and broadcast their efforts in real time or at least release information promptly -- it would buy them a ton of credibility. As it is, most of what they do is in secret and no details are provided for "ongoing investigations". This undermines trust and feeds conspiracy theories.) I can see rare instances where burning a house to the ground might be appropriate. I doubt this was such a case. A number of things would have to line up just right -- active shooter, inability to contain him, inability to retreat or find cover, delay posing risk to innocent life, etc. I doubt we will ever know what really happened here. That is a big part of the problem.
 
Are you in law enforcement, OIFer? I don't know the ground level details to know whether his killing was just or not, but I'm curious.
 
screw this Dorner discussion, I can't ****ing believe (or actually, I'm just pissed off about) that they turned a truck with two Asian ladies delivering newspapers into a ****ing sieve, in broad daylight and it's not a big deal.
 
a5hhmo.jpg
 
OIFer said:
PS, I frankly dont care if they threw flashbangs, incendiary grenades, or hit the cabin with a friggon JDAM, that guy had it coming to him.
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So much for due process huh?? You're emotion has gotten the better of your reasoning abilities.

Even OJ Simpson got a trial, as did those in Nazi Germany.
 
Boris said:
screw this Dorner discussion, I can't ****ing believe (or actually, I'm just pissed off about) that they turned a truck with two Asian ladies delivering newspapers into a ****ing sieve, in broad daylight and it's not a big deal.
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I think that particular incident is about 10 thousand times more alarming than what happened to Dorner. Dorner's bullshit is all formulaic- we knew he was dead whether the cops were going to play by the rulebook or not.

This whole incident where they shoot up a truck, for no apparent reason... is really ****ed up. If that doesn't alarm the public, then nothing will. Anyone could have been in that truck- and had the cops aim been less shitty, there would be two innocent, dead women in that truck.... shot by police... in cold blood.

It makes the often heard "the dog was growling at me and I shot it" excuse look legitimate, in comparison.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
I think that particular incident is about 10 thousand times more alarming than what happened to Dorner. Dorner's bullshit is all formulaic- we knew he was dead whether the cops were going to play by the rulebook or not.

This whole incident where they shoot up a truck, for no apparent reason... is really ****ed up. If that doesn't alarm the public, then nothing will. Anyone could have been in that truck- and had the cops aim been less shitty, there would be two innocent, dead women in that truck.... shot by police... in cold blood.

It makes the often heard "the dog was growling at me and I shot it" excuse look legitimate, in comparison.

-Mike
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Exactly right.
 
OIFer said:
Maybe I have it all wrong?

Dorner gets fired from LAPD after numerous suspensions ( fighting other officers, negligent discharge of firearm, harrassing another officer, and finally the kicking incident ) He loses the appeal to get his job back.

He then responds by killing a cop, and the child and her fiance of the attorney that WAS ON HIS SIDE trying to help him get his job back.

Dorner holds people hostage while hiding in their home from the police.

Dorner opens fire on several Game Wardens on the road near that cabin. Later shoots and kills a deputy and wounds another deputy.

So tell me, if the police shouldnt have used lethal force to stop Dorner from killing and kidnapping the citizens of this country, - WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM LOSING HIS JOB - could you fine fellows please describe for me what the more appropriate response should have been?
Click to expand...

We're either going to live by the rule of law, or the law of the jungle......and remember, YOU too will be just as susceptable to the consequences of both as anyone else in society.
 
Whether or not you believe he was a scumbag, the glaring truth here is the LAPD acted not only in as bad a manner as he claimed they were, they far exceeded it. Two shootings of innocent people driving around and a house burned to the ground after they clearly had the suspect fully contained and unable to escape.

Dorner's actions clearly helped demonstrate the everyday tactics of police and what they get away with. Instead of outrage from the public we get fanfare. It's sickening and its for this reason that despite the type of person Dorner was you can't help but wish he had been more successful since it's painfully clear change is not going to occur any other way.

People supposedly enforcing the law are above it and are getting away with murder and attempted murder on a daily basis. No voting or investigation is going to cure corruption that bad.
 
OIFer said:
Maybe I have it all wrong?

Dorner gets fired from LAPD after numerous suspensions ( fighting other officers, negligent discharge of firearm, harrassing another officer, and finally the kicking incident ) He loses the appeal to get his job back.

He then responds by killing a cop, and the child and her fiance of the attorney that WAS ON HIS SIDE trying to help him get his job back.

Dorner holds people hostage while hiding in their home from the police.

Dorner opens fire on several Game Wardens on the road near that cabin. Later shoots and kills a deputy and wounds another deputy.

So tell me, if the police shouldnt have used lethal force to stop Dorner from killing and kidnapping the citizens of this country, - WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM LOSING HIS JOB - could you fine fellows please describe for me what the more appropriate response should have been?
Click to expand...

Innocent until proven guilty. Due process of law. Any of these mean anything to you? Or do you just want the police to judge you on the streets?
 
Boghog1 said:
this is the US not Iraq,, our troops have more stringent rules of engagement than LE
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my friend did search and seizures in Iraq shortly after the war begun, also during the time the AWB was in effect here. he would search houses and seize weapons. but he was forced to leave the family one rifle for protection. and those rifles were almost always full automatic weapons.

pretty crappy our government trusted iraqis with full automatic weapons while not trusting the US citizen with semi-auto weapons that had plastic furniture.
 
Sax1031 said:
my friend did search and seizures in Iraq shortly after the war begun, also during the time the AWB was in effect here. he would search houses and seize weapons. but he was forced to leave the family one rifle for protection. and those rifles were almost always full automatic weapons.

pretty crappy our government trusted iraqis with full automatic weapons while not trusting the US citizen with semi-auto weapons that had plastic furniture.
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This is how things were when I was deployed in '07. Each Iraqi household was allowed one rifle, typically some sort of AK.
 
I'm ashamed to say I still have a Facebook, but it's mostly to keep my pulse on the people I know. None of these morons care about any of this. None of them.
 
Apathesis said:
I'm ashamed to say I still have a Facebook, but it's mostly to keep my pulse on the people I know. None of these morons care about any of this. None of them.
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Post the burn em out audio on fb. I did, I don't slam fb with pro gun/bad govt shenanigans but always share the juicy stuff, err crispy. Any and all pro freedom chatter is good.
 
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